by Yumyumsuppertime » Fri Jun 05, 2015 3:49 pm
by Farnhamia » Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:45 am
by Trumpostan » Sun Feb 14, 2016 5:57 am
Okay, here's the thing with the Democratic primary: everyone imagines they are supporting the one candidate who can save us from the abyss and feel aggrieved and belittled by the other side. I am personally a Bernie Sanders supporter, but the truth is that this is not a battle between good and evil so much as an awkward contest between two animals who evolved in entirely different ecosystems.
Hillary Clinton is like a grizzled hunter in the Amazon. Every day is a battle for survival. She has suffered every venom and poison imaginable and from her time as being the wife of a Democratic governor in a red state to being Secretary of State to the most besieged administration in modern history, she has lived her entire life in a rainforest filled with things determined to kill her. Her political survival instincts have adapted accordingly.
Bernie Sanders is like a wallaby. He hails from the benign ecosystem known as Vermont, where he lacks any natural predators. He will be the beloved senator from Vermont for as long as he cares to be. So he hops around wherever he wants, unafraid that anyone might use his words to crucify him. Propose a $15 minimum wage? Just have a friendly chat with anyone who disagrees. Call yourself a "socialist?" Sure, why not? We're all friends here. On the other side of the world, though, if Hillary Clinton channels her inner Eleanor Roosevelt, the Republicans call it a seance. Write a few State Department e-mails from your personal server? Suddenly there's a major Congressional investigation, even though nobody cared when previous Secretaries of State did exactly the same thing.
Bernie's instincts have evolved so he feels no danger in exposing his head to say what he thinks, however far afield it may be from current political reality. Hillary's instincts, on the other hand, have adapted in a harsher environment, where extreme cautiousness and distrust are rewarded.
Likewise, the two candidates' strengths and weaknesses are a direct consequence of their respective environments. Three decades of jungle warfare against Republicans has left Hillary battle-tested and well-versed in the dark arts of political campaigning. She will, I have no doubt, annihilate whoever emerges from the Republican Convention and be drinking out of their skull by November. But at the same time, this experience has made her reticent to take strong positions, to say things that could be later used against her. She tends to "evolve" rather than stand on principle. Bernie has no such qualms, and has from the very beginning taken principled stands on the Iraq War, universal health insurance, gay marriage, etc. which while controversial at the time, have since been borne out by history. He is the forward-thinking visionary that Hillary is not, but he also seems naively unprepared for the shitwave of dirty tricks and false accusations that will come his way if and when he has to run a national campaign against a Donald Trump or a Ted Cruz.
I'm not telling you who to vote for in the Democratic primary. Thanks to decades of self-selecting news coverage, extreme right wing radio, and the derangement induced by the reality that the white male vote is no longer enough to carry national elections, the GOP field has been reduced to an incoherent fever dream of xenophobia and obsolescence. Either Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders would be infinitely preferable to anyone in that mental ward. This primary is not a choice between good and evil, as some Democrats have made it out to be, but rather the choice between different types of leaders, the visionary vs the tactician, whose approach to politics has largely been forged by differences in environment rather than character.
by Wallonesia » Sun Feb 14, 2016 7:09 am
by Bodegraven » Sun Feb 14, 2016 7:11 am
by Farnhamia » Sun Feb 14, 2016 7:15 am
Bodegraven wrote:Will there be a new poll and an updated OP?
More on topic, I wonder what is going to happen with the Supreme Court. It is quite likely that whoever Obama nominates for SCOTUS will not get confirmed. Does anyone here maybe have an idea on what the difference could be between a Clinton and Sanders administration?
Personally I think that, if the nominee simply hasn't gone to a vote yet, Clinton will keep pushing for their nomination. After all, her campaign is running for a large part on the fact that she will consolidate what Obama has achieved. Sanders would be more of a wildcard, although I would imagine he could nominate someone like Pam Karlan.
by Ashmoria » Sun Feb 14, 2016 7:17 am
Bodegraven wrote:Will there be a new poll and an updated OP?
More on topic, I wonder what is going to happen with the Supreme Court. It is quite likely that whoever Obama nominates for SCOTUS will not get confirmed. Does anyone here maybe have an idea on what the difference could be between a Clinton and Sanders administration?
Personally I think that, if the nominee simply hasn't gone to a vote yet, Clinton will keep pushing for their nomination. After all, her campaign is running for a large part on the fact that she will consolidate what Obama has achieved. Sanders would be more of a wildcard, although I would imagine he could nominate someone like Pam Karlan.
by Wallonesia » Sun Feb 14, 2016 7:23 am
Bodegraven wrote:Will there be a new poll and an updated OP?
More on topic, I wonder what is going to happen with the Supreme Court. It is quite likely that whoever Obama nominates for SCOTUS will not get confirmed. Does anyone here maybe have an idea on what the difference could be between a Clinton and Sanders administration?
Personally I think that, if the nominee simply hasn't gone to a vote yet, Clinton will keep pushing for their nomination. After all, her campaign is running for a large part on the fact that she will consolidate what Obama has achieved. Sanders would be more of a wildcard, although I would imagine he could nominate someone like Pam Karlan.
by Ostroeuropa » Sun Feb 14, 2016 7:35 am
by Ashmoria » Sun Feb 14, 2016 7:41 am
Ostroeuropa wrote:Given Clintons rush to copy Sanders, assuming both she and trump get the nomination, anyone wanna give odds on her aping some of Trumps positions and rhetoric?
by Ostroeuropa » Sun Feb 14, 2016 7:45 am
Ashmoria wrote:Ostroeuropa wrote:Given Clintons rush to copy Sanders, assuming both she and trump get the nomination, anyone wanna give odds on her aping some of Trumps positions and rhetoric?
no
that doesn't reflect modern political thought. today candidates don't try to persuade the other side. they try to turn out the vote on THEIR side because voter participation is so low that increasing your turnout make a bigger difference.
by Ashmoria » Sun Feb 14, 2016 7:47 am
Ostroeuropa wrote:Ashmoria wrote:no
that doesn't reflect modern political thought. today candidates don't try to persuade the other side. they try to turn out the vote on THEIR side because voter participation is so low that increasing your turnout make a bigger difference.
I thought both sides rushed to the centre to pander to the middle ground while demonizing the opponent as a turrible extremist.
by Ostroeuropa » Sun Feb 14, 2016 7:48 am
by Ashmoria » Sun Feb 14, 2016 7:54 am
Ostroeuropa wrote:Ashmoria wrote:she's already in the middle. she isn't going to start blathering about building a wall.
You're sure?
It's a popular stance.
Maybe i'm just hoping she will because I want the election to become a complete farce with them both arguing over how high they are gonna make the wall.
by New Chalcedon » Sun Feb 14, 2016 8:21 am
Trumpostan wrote:This is quoted from the now locked thread:Okay, here's the thing with the Democratic primary: everyone imagines they are supporting the one candidate who can save us from the abyss and feel aggrieved and belittled by the other side. I am personally a Bernie Sanders supporter, but the truth is that this is not a battle between good and evil so much as an awkward contest between two animals who evolved in entirely different ecosystems.
Hillary Clinton is like a grizzled hunter in the Amazon. Every day is a battle for survival. She has suffered every venom and poison imaginable and from her time as being the wife of a Democratic governor in a red state to being Secretary of State to the most besieged administration in modern history, she has lived her entire life in a rainforest filled with things determined to kill her. Her political survival instincts have adapted accordingly.
Bernie Sanders is like a wallaby. He hails from the benign ecosystem known as Vermont, where he lacks any natural predators. He will be the beloved senator from Vermont for as long as he cares to be.
So he hops around wherever he wants, unafraid that anyone might use his words to crucify him. Propose a $15 minimum wage? Just have a friendly chat with anyone who disagrees. Call yourself a "socialist?" Sure, why not? We're all friends here.
On the other side of the world, though, if Hillary Clinton channels her inner Eleanor Roosevelt, the Republicans call it a seance.
Write a few State Department e-mails from your personal server? Suddenly there's a major Congressional investigation, even though nobody cared when previous Secretaries of State did exactly the same thing.
Bernie's instincts have evolved so he feels no danger in exposing his head to say what he thinks, however far afield it may be from current political reality. Hillary's instincts, on the other hand, have adapted in a harsher environment, where extreme cautiousness and distrust are rewarded.
Likewise, the two candidates' strengths and weaknesses are a direct consequence of their respective environments. Three decades of jungle warfare against Republicans has left Hillary battle-tested and well-versed in the dark arts of political campaigning. She will, I have no doubt, annihilate whoever emerges from the Republican Convention and be drinking out of their skull by November.
But at the same time, this experience has made her reticent to take strong positions, to say things that could be later used against her. She tends to "evolve" rather than stand on principle.
Bernie has no such qualms, and has from the very beginning taken principled stands on the Iraq War, universal health insurance, gay marriage, etc. which while controversial at the time, have since been borne out by history.
He is the forward-thinking visionary that Hillary is not, but he also seems naively unprepared for the shitwave of dirty tricks and false accusations that will come his way if and when he has to run a national campaign against a Donald Trump or a Ted Cruz.
I'm not telling you who to vote for in the Democratic primary. Thanks to decades of self-selecting news coverage, extreme right wing radio, and the derangement induced by the reality that the white male vote is no longer enough to carry national elections, the GOP field has been reduced to an incoherent fever dream of xenophobia and obsolescence. Either Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders would be infinitely preferable to anyone in that mental ward. This primary is not a choice between good and evil, as some Democrats have made it out to be, but rather the choice between different types of leaders, the visionary vs the tactician, whose approach to politics has largely been forged by differences in environment rather than character.
I take my hat off to whoever wrote that. We should never forget the real enemy are rabid reactionary right wing extremist republicans who now even proclaim a president isn't allowed to nominate a Supreme Court Justice just because... well... just because they want another bigot to replace the deceased bigot (RIP). They cannot stand the idea that we might actually get a competent judge who isn't mentally stuck in the late 18th century with caveman ideas about women and gays. For the past seven years, in my opinion the Republican Party has become a political terrorist organization, lobbing political grenades at anything they disagree with.
Obama has done such a wonderful job considering seven years of deranged opposition from people who are absolutely pissed (it seems) that a black man has the audacity to do stuff that doesn't exclusively benefit middle aged white males. We cannot afford to squander this election on petty squabbling about Sanders vs Clinton. Vote for the winner, that is what I will do even if I would prefer Sanders I will not skip the election if I don't get my way.
by Eol Sha » Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:05 am
by Eol Sha » Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:07 am
Ostroeuropa wrote:Ashmoria wrote:she's already in the middle. she isn't going to start blathering about building a wall.
You're sure?
It's a popular stance.
Maybe i'm just hoping she will because I want the election to become a complete farce with them both arguing over how high they are gonna make the wall.
by New Chalcedon » Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:08 am
Eol Sha wrote:Yes, very nice repost from Myrensis. Cool analogies, too. Although, don't wallabies live in Australia? The land of death and despair?
by Blakk Metal » Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:33 am
by Northern Davincia » Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:39 am
Conservative Morality wrote:And how the fuck could you hate Obama and love America equally? I don't hate goddamn Dominionist Stalinist White Nationalists as much as I love America. If you had a choice between helping America or harming Obama and you found that a hard choice, you're not a patriot. You're a goddamn partisan.
New Chalcedon wrote:- Opined that African-Americans are better off not going to the best colleges, because they can't keep up with them;
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."
by Valrifell » Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:45 am
Blakk Metal wrote:Why is Bernie Sanders so popular? All he does is spout leftist boilerplate with no personality or logos.
by The United Territories of Providence » Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:59 am
DBJ wrote:Sanders is insane, a dangerous ideologue. Hillary is pretty bad, but still much better than sanders.
by The United Territories of Providence » Sun Feb 14, 2016 10:03 am
by Camicon » Sun Feb 14, 2016 10:15 am
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