[report]Trolling in UK politics thread

[Pesda]

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=353595&p=26796712#p26796712
"Your language is useless" is a statement, by Kraylandia, intending to cause anger.

[Pesda]

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=353595&p=26796924#p26796924
"I want to ban your language" is also intended to cause anger.

[Pesda]

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=353595&p=26797405#p26797405
Suggesting that a language is outdated is also intended to cause anger.

[Kraylandia]

That's an absolutely ludicrous accusation of trolling. By your logic, any opponent in an argument on this forum could constitute as a troll. Perhaps I could have worded things a little better but "trolling" you was not my objective.

[NERVUN]

Not actionable.

[Kraylandia]

Not actionable.

Thanks NERV.

[Pesda]

That's an absolutely ludicrous accusation of trolling. By your logic, any opponent in an argument on this forum could constitute as a troll. Perhaps I could have worded things a little better but "trolling" you was not my objective.

Well if you're only accidentally angering me by saying that my language and therefore my culture is useless and outdated I would suggest trying to be more tolerant in the future because you certainly have succeeded in pissing me off even after changing your mind about banning my language. Nonetheless as the moderators believe that insulting entire cultures is not trolling I will leave the matter be.

[NERVUN]

That's an absolutely ludicrous accusation of trolling. By your logic, any opponent in an argument on this forum could constitute as a troll. Perhaps I could have worded things a little better but "trolling" you was not my objective.

Well if you're only accidentally angering me by saying that my language and therefore my culture is useless and outdated I would suggest trying to be more tolerant in the future because you certainly have succeeded in pissing me off even after changing your mind about banning my language. Nonetheless as the moderators believe that insulting entire cultures is not trolling I will leave the matter be.

That is NOT what we said. We said that this is not trolling.

[Pesda]

Well if you're only accidentally angering me by saying that my language and therefore my culture is useless and outdated I would suggest trying to be more tolerant in the future because you certainly have succeeded in pissing me off even after changing your mind about banning my language. Nonetheless as the moderators believe that insulting entire cultures is not trolling I will leave the matter be.

That is NOT what we said. We said that this is not trolling.

With respect, is it possible to appeal that? I know I just said I would leave it be but I actually feel pretty strongly.

[The Archregimancy]

I'll look at this; as the only mod (to my knowledge) with any experience of working in Cymru Cymraeg and/or making a stab at learning the language (admittedly not terribly successfully; I'm much better at Romance languages), I am at least aware of the broader issues.

This doesn't mean that I promise to overturn NERVUN's ruling; merely that I'll look at it.

[The Archregimancy]

I've looked at it.

Pesda, I can appreciate why this has cut you to the quick, and I can appreciate why this has made you angry; in your place I would likely be furious. Welsh-speakers have had to fight very hard over the last century to gain official status for their native language, and having a monoglot Anglophone lecture you about the usefulness of your language is hardly likely to cheer you up.

Nonetheless, those posts are not trolling.

If Kraylandia had actually directly said 'your language is useless', and 'I want to ban your language', and had specifically and obviously directed those baiting comments at you upon you noting that you're a native Welsh speaker, I would indeed have recommended to Nerv that we reconsider. However, that's not what happened here. Instead we start with a general statement that Kraylandia supports defunding schooling in 'useless' languages such as Welsh and Gaelic (which is in response to you), and then a general statement that Kraylandia sees no problem in 'banning useless languages' (which is in response to Alyakia).

I happen to believe, as a person rather than a mod, that Kraylandia is wrong, that central government support for the UK's Celtic languages is both warranted and necessary. However, much as it pains me to admit it (and this admission is hardly going to discourage you from voting for Plaid Cymru, alas), Kraylandia represents a significant body of opinion outside of Cymru Cymraeg and the Gàidhealtachd (and not necessarily just in England). As such, so long as the comments are not intended to bait you personally, he's within his rights to make that argument.

I know that's a very, very fine line, and that - in all likelihood - it's not necessarily a line you'll accept given the extent to which the Welsh language is central to your identity. And it's on the latter basis that I accept you feel strongly about this, and understand why you wanted to ask for a second opinion.

But despite that, I think that - in this specific case - NERVUN made the right decision.

[Pesda]

I've looked at it.

Pesda, I can appreciate why this has cut you to the quick, and I can appreciate why this has made you angry; in your place I would likely be furious. Welsh-speakers have had to fight very hard over the last century to gain official status for their native language, and having a monoglot Anglophone lecture you about the usefulness of your language is hardly likely to cheer you up.

Nonetheless, those posts are not trolling.

If Kraylandia had actually directly said 'your language is useless', and 'I want to ban your language', and had specifically and obviously directed those baiting comments at you upon you noting that you're a native Welsh speaker, I would indeed have recommended to Nerv that we reconsider. However, that's not what happened here. Instead we start with a general statement that Kraylandia supports defunding schooling in 'useless' languages such as Welsh and Gaelic (which is in response to you), and then a general statement that Kraylandia sees no problem in 'banning useless languages' (which is in response to Alyakia).

I happen to believe, as a person rather than a mod, that Kraylandia is wrong, that central government support for the UK's Celtic languages is both warranted and necessary. However, much as it pains me to admit it (and this admission is hardly going to discourage you from voting for Plaid Cymru, alas), Kraylandia represents a significant body of opinion outside of Cymru Cymraeg and the Gàidhealtachd (and not necessarily just in England). As such, so long as the comments are not intended to bait you personally, he's within his rights to make that argument.

I know that's a very, very fine line, and that - in all likelihood - it's not necessarily a line you'll accept given the extent to which the Welsh language is central to your identity. And it's on the latter basis that I accept you feel strongly about this, and understand why you wanted to ask for a second opinion.

But despite that, I think that - in this specific case - NERVUN made the right decision.

Thank you for looking into the matter. I would still think that Kray was implicitly saying "I want to ban your language" but I will accept your decision. It's good to know that there are people outside the Cymry Cymraeg and especially outside Wales that actually understand why these matters are important and actually appreciate that language can be a part of one's identity, so thank you for that.