Racial profiling of Chinese-American scientists

[Arumdaum]

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-ameri ... ow-n468736
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-ameri ... on-n458246

The U.S. Commission on Civil Rights has now joined the chorus asking for an investigation on the alleged profiling of Asian Americans.

"We urge you to investigate whether federal investigators and prosecutors improperly over-relied on race in recent prosecutions, and to increase training and oversight over ongoing and future investigations and prosecutions against Chinese Americans for spying and espionage," a letter, dated Nov. 18, to the attorney general from members of the commission stated.

The two most recent examples cited in the letter involved the cases of hydrologist Sherry Chen and Temple University's Xiaoxing Xi. Both were suspected and accused of obtaining sensitive information and giving it to China, only to have charges dropped for lack of evidence.

"We are concerned these and other examples may show a pattern of overzealous targeting of Asian Americans," the commission's letter reads. "Members of Congress and national Asian and Chinese American organizations have raised similar concerns with you, but the Department of Justice's response has been to dismiss these concerns without addressing the underlying policies and practices that led to mistakes which precipitated these wrongful prosecutions of American citizens."

In addition to these two, in 1999, Taiwanese-American nuclear physicist Wen Ho Lee was indicted for spying for China, had his name leaked by the press before charges were placed, denied bail, and placed in solitary confinement for over nine months, only for the government to realize that there was no actual evidence against him.

Asian-Americans, and especially Chinese-Americans, make up a large portion of America's scientists and engineers; the number is only increasing due to immigration and how Asian-Americans disproportionally pursue STEM majors (over 30%, as opposed to 14% of White Americans, 14% of Hispanic Americans, and 11% of Black Americans), as well as higher college enrollment rates.

This is pretty unacceptable. It only builds mistrust between Asian-Americans and mainstream US society, and helps contribute to the sense of alienation that many Asian-Americans get while living in the US.

It reminds of back in the 1950s, when Chinese-Americans were persecuted and widely distrusted due to the victory of the Communists in the Chinese Civil War. Many Chinese-Americans were imprisoned or lost their jobs due to the feeling as, considering they were Chinese, could be communist. Among these were Qian Xuesen, who, unable to pursue his career in the US (even after making many contributions) due to discrimination, ended up becoming the "Father of Chinese Rocketry/King of Rocketry" after he returned to China. Undersecretary of the Navy Dan A. Kimball described it as "the stupidest thing this country ever did. He was no more a Communist than I was, and we forced him to go."

[Dakini]

Shitty and it should stop, but it's not surprising.

Iranian scientists get treated pretty poorly by the US as well, even if they don't live there and even if they're studying something totally benign (like astronomy).

[Exelia]

Was there any evidence they actually racially profiled?

It seems to be calling for an investigation, not laying out a case.

[Republic of Coldwater]

Is there any substantial evidence of such cases? Asian-Americans are some of the most successful in the US, and do quite well in corporate America, even in top levels, something tells me that this is exaggerated.

[Arumdaum]

Is there any substantial evidence of such cases? Asian-Americans are some of the most successful in the US, and do quite well in corporate America, even in top levels, something tells me that this is exaggerated.

did you even read op

[Republic of Coldwater]

Is there any substantial evidence of such cases? Asian-Americans are some of the most successful in the US, and do quite well in corporate America, even in top levels, something tells me that this is exaggerated.

did you even read op

Yeah, two scientists, how representative.

[Exelia]

Is there any substantial evidence of such cases? Asian-Americans are some of the most successful in the US, and do quite well in corporate America, even in top levels, something tells me that this is exaggerated.

did you even read op

I don;t think anyone is denying Wn Ho lee, but what evidence was it that these two were racially profiled? We'd need statistics.

Because I would hardly call Asian-Americans in the US a repressed minority. The charges were dropped anyway.

[Toronina]

Is there any substantial evidence of such cases? Asian-Americans are some of the most successful in the US, and do quite well in corporate America, even in top levels, something tells me that this is exaggerated.

It doesn't seem like they've found it yet, which is why they are going to investigate it, to see if the rumors have some merit to them. If evidence is found action will be taken I hope. If not, either it's being hidden or the discrimination is simply not happening.

[Arumdaum]

did you even read op

Yeah, two scientists, how representative.

ok thanks for telling me you didn't read op

[Toronina]

Yeah, two scientists, how representative.

ok thanks for telling me you didn't read op

Just because you don't like what Coldwater has to say doesn't mean you have to accuse of them of not reading the post. They've asked an honest question, whether or not there is evidence for this happening. It's a good question which needs to be answered. Do we have evidence this is happening?

[Exelia]

Yeah, two scientists, how representative.

ok thanks for telling me you didn't read op

Where in OP do you have any evidence of widespread racial discrimination?

Just because one black person murders a white person because of racist doesn't mean there is systemic racism against whites. Same thing here.

[Arumdaum]

ok thanks for telling me you didn't read op

Just because you don't like what Coldwater has to say doesn't mean you have to accuse of them of not reading the post. They've asked an honest question, whether or not there is evidence for this happening. It's a good question which needs to be answered. Do we have evidence this is happening?

It was pretty obvious that he didn't read the post.

He asked if there were any cases, when four were mentioned, of which two were described as only the most recent.

He then said how there were only two, when four were listed, and despite that the two recent cases are only meant to show the most talked about recent examples.

[Republic of Coldwater]

Just because you don't like what Coldwater has to say doesn't mean you have to accuse of them of not reading the post. They've asked an honest question, whether or not there is evidence for this happening. It's a good question which needs to be answered. Do we have evidence this is happening?

It was pretty obvious that he didn't read the post.

He asked if there were any cases, when four were mentioned, of which two were described as only the most recent.

He then said how there were only two, when four were listed, and despite that the two recent cases are only meant to show the most talked about recent examples.

I asked for substantial evidence, four cases could be four isolated incidents, and is unsubstantial.

[Arumdaum]

Was there any evidence they actually racially profiled?

It seems to be calling for an investigation, not laying out a case.

If there wasn't any evidence, do you think many people, and the US Commission on Civil Rights would be calling for an investigation?

According to Congressional Asian Pacific American Caucus executive board member Ted Lieu, a recurrent theme among Americans who have been arrested for spying but have all their charges dropped is that they are virtually all Asian-American. Asian-Americans compromise a lot less than 90-100% of America's population.

http://blogs.wsj.com/pharmalot/2014/12/ ... dismissed/

Here's another article from last year about two different cases. US citizens Guoqing Cao and Shuyu Li were both accused of stealing confidential data regarding several drugs for China in 2013, only to have all charges dropped against them late last year.

Many of these Chinese-American scientists have been fired or demoted; Dr. Wen Ho Lee was forced into retirement.

Katrina Leung, a double agent working for the FBI, was indicted by the US government, but had her case thrown out for prosecutorial misconduct, in which the prosecutor attempts to sway the jury into wrongly convicting the defendant, or tries impose a harsher than appropriate punishment.

Many Americans are quick to judge that Asian-Americans aren't really American. The Implicit Association Test made by Harvard found that Americans found Asian-Americans much more likely to be seen as foreign than White Americans. To many Americans, Asian-Americans are the "perpetual foreigner" who does not really belong in the US. Note how many people ask Asian-Americans where they are from (put in the news recently by THE DONALD), and if they answer somewhere in the US, they are then asked, "Where are you really from?"

It is silly to not acknowledge the racial aspect of this when it seems that the US government seems much more likely to jump to arresting and prosecuting an Asian-American due to their names and faces; many Americans cannot seem to swallow the fact that Asian-Americans are still, in fact, Americans.

[Dejanic]

This definitely seems exaggerated. There's obviously going to a few select cases like the ones in the OP, but generally Asian Americans are very successful minorities, more successful than White folk, and hardly go through hardship like Latino and Black minorities go through.

[Arumdaum]

This definitely seems exaggerated. There's obviously going to a few select cases like the ones in the OP, but generally Asian Americans are very successful minorities, more successful than White folk, and hardly go through hardship like Latino and Black minorities go through.

How is it exaggerated? It's barely being reported in the news.

Does racial profiling have to be a certain level of bad before it's somehow considered to be "legitimate" racial profiling? Does racial profiling have to occur a large number of times before we should care about it? It is easy to ignore or dismiss racial issues when you are the socially advantaged racial group in society, but it is hard to ignore it as a racial minority.

Does being a wealthy minority somehow make you immune to racism? Not only does this ignore the fact that Asian-Americans have a higher poverty rate than the US general poverty rate, it ignores that Asian-Americans are a very diverse group. Southeast Asian-Americans are much more likely to live in poverty, not graduate from high school, and not go to college.

It also ignores that while Asian-Americans make up much of the rank-and-file of many companies, they are less likely to be given raises (despite being more likely to ask for them), be put in management positions, and are denied access to leadership positions (the so-called "bamboo ceiling").

Furthermore, the reason why Asian-Americans tend to have a higher median household income and education is due to the fact that Asian-Americans have primarily arrived through skills-based immigration, unlike Latinx-Americans and African Americans. Asian-Americans have managed to obtain success in America due to the fact that they are heavily college educated or are the children of college-educated parents who were allowed to come, not because they are somehow the most advantaged when it comes to success in the US (although many will assume that you are better at math, including counselors who decide your classes).

Does the racism which other minority groups go through somehow make the racism dealt toward Asian-Americans less legitimate? Jews were historically stereotypes as smart and rich (and still are); should issues regarding Jews have been dismissed? No, because there are other factors when it comes to race than material wealth and education.

[Internationalist Bastard]

What is this, Fallout?

[Vietnam]

What is this, Fallout?

what

[Internationalist Bastard]

What is this, Fallout?

what

In the fallout game series, America is in a cold war with China, which leads to constant accusations of Chinese Americans being commie spies.

[Vietnam]

what

In the fallout game series, America is in a cold war with China, which leads to constant accusations of Chinese Americans being commie spies.

Ohhhh

It actually happened in the 50's (with one big case in op), which is what fallout is based off of right???

[Internationalist Bastard]

In the fallout game series, America is in a cold war with China, which leads to constant accusations of Chinese Americans being commie spies.

Ohhhh

It actually happened in the 50's (with one big case in op), which is what fallout is based off of right???

That's right. The key thing though is the 50s, not the 2000s

[Republic of Coldwater]

This definitely seems exaggerated. There's obviously going to a few select cases like the ones in the OP, but generally Asian Americans are very successful minorities, more successful than White folk, and hardly go through hardship like Latino and Black minorities go through.

How is it exaggerated? It's barely being reported in the news.

Does racial profiling have to be a certain level of bad before it's somehow considered to be "legitimate" racial profiling? Does racial profiling have to occur a large number of times before we should care about it? It is easy to ignore or dismiss racial issues when you are the socially advantaged racial group in society, but it is hard to ignore it as a racial minority.

Does being a wealthy minority somehow make you immune to racism? Not only does this ignore the fact that Asian-Americans have a higher poverty rate than the US general poverty rate, it ignores that Asian-Americans are a very diverse group. Southeast Asian-Americans are much more likely to live in poverty, not graduate from high school, and not go to college.

It also ignores that while Asian-Americans make up much of the rank-and-file of many companies, they are less likely to be given raises (despite being more likely to ask for them), be put in management positions, and are denied access to leadership positions (the so-called "bamboo ceiling").

Furthermore, the reason why Asian-Americans tend to have a higher median household income and education is due to the fact that Asian-Americans have primarily arrived through skills-based immigration, unlike Latinx-Americans and African Americans. Asian-Americans have managed to obtain success in America due to the fact that they are heavily college educated or are the children of college-educated parents who were allowed to come, not because they are somehow the most advantaged when it comes to success in the US (although many will assume that you are better at math, including counselors who decide your classes).

Does the racism which other minority groups go through somehow make the racism dealt toward Asian-Americans less legitimate? Jews were historically stereotypes as smart and rich (and still are); should issues regarding Jews have been dismissed? No, because there are other factors when it comes to race than material wealth and education.

You are suggesting systemic discrimination of Chinese-Americans, not isolated cases. Isolated cases don't warrant full-scale investigations, but systemic discrimination does, and four or five scientists being suspected of being spies compared to the countless Chinese in science doesn't mean shit, these are the exception, not the rule.

Great, yeah, some asian groups, most notably low-IQ southeast Asian groups are pretty shit, largely due to their environment which differs from the East Asian groups. The term "Asian-American", I admit, is very broad, but the group in question, Chinese-Americans are some of the wealthiest, and most prosperous groups in the US.

Once again, Asians are a broad term, and even so, demographics does not denote racial discrimination. It might mean that they are fewer in number in such companies, or perhaps that on average, they are less qualified, as unlikely as it is. Unless you can disprove that equally qualified asians are denied because of their race, not because of their relatively young age, or their small numbers, then you cannot jump to such conclusions.

Sure, and also because they are the smartest race, with average IQs exceeding 105, surpassing Europeans. Regardless, it shows that they are prosperous, and that the average Asian is better off than the average white. Doesn't mean it should be changed or anything, but to argue that Asians are still suffering so much plight is just bogus.

Its just that Asians do not suffer the same discrimination as did the Jews. They are a generally new group to the US, but have made meaningful strides. Sure, there are cases of discrimination, and sure, they may not have made it to the top, for they are a relatively new group, but given that their success in American societies, their disproportionate over-representation in most prestigious fields, it is hard to fathom that Asians are suffering the same plight as did the Irish, or the Blacks, or the Jews.

[Republic of Coldwater]

What is this, Fallout?

Madison Li helped build Liberty Prime in Fallout 3 and is in the Institute by Fallout 4, leading Advanced Systems.

[Internationalist Bastard]

What is this, Fallout?

Madison Li helped build Liberty Prime in Fallout 3 and is in the Institute by Fallout 4, leading Advanced Systems.

Yeah but that's after atomic annihilation. I'm saying before

[Arumdaum]

난 도대체 왜 여기 아직도 다니나 *sigh*