Is the will of the people absolute?

[Russo-Byzantine Empire]

So say that you live in a democratic Republic, except things are kind of going south. Then, the people elect, of their own free will, with no cheating, no vote rigging, no intimidation, to vote in a government with a platform of genocide and returning a minority to the status of slaves. You are the supreme commander of the military, who has the absolute loyalty of all of your soldiers. Do you stage a coup to depose this genocidal government that is supported by the will of the people? In my opinion, democracy should be a privilege, not a right. If the people are using democracy to restore slavery, they have no right to democracy. Thus, a coup would be absolutely justified, as would a liquidation of anyone who was part of the old government.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

I absolutely stage a coup, and this time make sure that we have a Constitution guaranteeing certain rights so as to avoid that sort of jiggery-fuckery. Then, after a short while, I stand down for free elections.

[Wallenburg]

I absolutely stage a coup, and this time make sure that we have a Constitution guaranteeing certain rights so as to avoid that sort of jiggery-fuckery. Then, after a short while, I stand down for free elections.

^^ This, to the letter.

[Washington Resistance Army]

I stage a coup and appoint myself dictator, the nation will prosper under my rule.

[Russo-Byzantine Empire]

I absolutely stage a coup, and this time make sure that we have a Constitution guaranteeing certain rights so as to avoid that sort of jiggery-fuckery. Then, after a short while, I stand down for free elections.

But the constitution is no guarantee, since amendments have been repealed before. If alcohol has been reinstated, why not slavery?

[Risottia]

So say that you live in a democratic Republic, except things are kind of going south. Then, the people elect, of their own free will, with no cheating, no vote rigging, no intimidation, to vote in a government with a platform of genocide and returning a minority to the status of slaves. You are the supreme commander of the military, who has the absolute loyalty of all of your soldiers. Do you stage a coup to depose this genocidal government that is supported by the will of the people?

No, it would not be a coup. It would be a restoration of the Constitution.

This is a typical example of the Constitution of a democratic Republic (Italy).

Fundamental principles (not amendable)

Art. 1
Italy is a democratic republic, founded on work.
Sovereignty belongs to the people, which exercises it in the forms and within the limits of the Constitution.

Art. 2
The Republic recognizes and guarantees the inviolable rights of man, as an individual, and in the social groups where he expresses his personality, and demands the fulfilment of the intransgressible duties of political, economic, and social solidarity.

Art. 3
All citizens have equal social dignity and are equal before the law, without distinction of sex, race, language, religion, political opinions, personal and social conditions.
It is the duty of the Republic to remove those obstacles of an economic and social nature which, really limiting the freedom and equality of citizens, impede the full development of the human person and the effective participation of all workers in the political, economic and social organization of the country.

Art. 11
Italy rejects war as an instrument of aggression against the freedoms of others peoples and as a means for settling international controversies; it agrees, on conditions of equality with other states, to the limitations of sovereignty necessary for an order that ensures peace and justice among Nations; it promotes and encourages international organizations having such ends in view.


The popular sovereignty is not absolute but relative, and it is limited by the law (principle of rule of law), by the Constitution (democracy instead of tyranny of majority) and by the constitutional values of solidarity and equality (democratic republic instead of oligarchic/authoritarian republic), by the self-limitations necessary for an international order ensuring peace and justice (principle of international solidarity).

Hence, a cabinet and a Parliament making moves against these values (such as genocide) would be acting against the Constitution and committing an attempt against the Constitution (plus, of course, various other crimes). Its acts should be vetoed by the President of the Republic and annulled by the Constitutional Court: failing that, as Chief of Etat Majeur of the Armed Forces and as loyal citizen of the Republic, I would be required to intervene to the full extent of my capacities to restore the Constitutional values of the Republic.

[Thermodolia]

So say that you live in a democratic Republic, except things are kind of going south. Then, the people elect, of their own free will, with no cheating, no vote rigging, no intimidation, to vote in a government with a platform of genocide and returning a minority to the status of slaves. You are the supreme commander of the military, who has the absolute loyalty of all of your soldiers. Do you stage a coup to depose this genocidal government that is supported by the will of the people?

No, it would not be a coup. It would be a restoration of the Constitution.

This is a typical example of the Constitution of a democratic Republic (Italy).

Fundamental principles (not amendable)

Art. 1
Italy is a democratic republic, founded on work.
Sovereignty belongs to the people, which exercises it in the forms and within the limits of the Constitution.

Art. 2
The Republic recognizes and guarantees the inviolable rights of man, as an individual, and in the social groups where he expresses his personality, and demands the fulfilment of the intransgressible duties of political, economic, and social solidarity.

Art. 3
All citizens have equal social dignity and are equal before the law, without distinction of sex, race, language, religion, political opinions, personal and social conditions.
It is the duty of the Republic to remove those obstacles of an economic and social nature which, really limiting the freedom and equality of citizens, impede the full development of the human person and the effective participation of all workers in the political, economic and social organization of the country.

Art. 11
Italy rejects war as an instrument of aggression against the freedoms of others peoples and as a means for settling international controversies; it agrees, on conditions of equality with other states, to the limitations of sovereignty necessary for an order that ensures peace and justice among Nations; it promotes and encourages international organizations having such ends in view.


The popular sovereignty is not absolute but relative, and it is limited by the law (principle of rule of law), by the Constitution (democracy instead of tyranny of majority) and by the constitutional values of solidarity and equality (democratic republic instead of oligarchic/authoritarian republic), by the self-limitations necessary for an international order ensuring peace and justice (principle of international solidarity).

Hence, a cabinet and a Parliament making moves against these values (such as genocide) would be acting against the Constitution and committing an attempt against the Constitution (plus, of course, various other crimes). Its acts should be vetoed by the President of the Republic and annulled by the Constitutional Court: failing that, as Chief of Etat Majeur of the Armed Forces and as loyal citizen of the Republic, I would be required to intervene to the full extent of my capacities to restore the Constitutional values of the Republic.

^^This

[Russo-Byzantine Empire]

Well, how about this: the government is quite open about being a dictatorship, and the people vote for it anyway. What then? Furthermore, how would you feel about the coup as a citizen, not knowing that it was only temporary?

[Risottia]

Well, how about this: the government is quite open about being a dictatorship, and the people vote for it anyway. What then

Restoration of Constitutional values and of democracy through armed insurrection as per Constitution; civil war if needed. Every citizen has the duty to defend the Republic, the Constitution, and its values.

[Purpelia]

Well of course I'd stage a coup. The very fact that the society is democratic means that it is by its nature corrupt. So not only would I remove the government and erase the democracy but I would make sure I stay in power to build a new communist nation.

[Conserative Morality]

Go full on Turkey with that shit, pull a coup and prepare for eventual return to civilian government. Why would a supporter of democracy, the ideal, not the process, allow such a blatant violation of basic liberal ideals? Have we forgotten the French Revolution so soon?

[Kraylandia]

I absolutely stage a coup, and this time make sure that we have a Constitution guaranteeing certain rights so as to avoid that sort of jiggery-fuckery. Then, after a short while, I stand down for free elections.

Hit the nail on the head.

[Satterthwaite]

No, because there is no such thing as "will of the people." There is only the "will of the majority."

As for your scenario, I don't see someone seizing power from an oppressive government only to relinquish said power. That's way too... idealistic.

[Alvecia]

No, because there is no such thing as "will of the people." There is only the "will of the majority."

As for your scenario, I don't see someone seizing power from an oppressive government only to relinquish said power. That's way too... idealistic.

Idealism is just how cynics refer to optimism.

[Satterthwaite]

No, because there is no such thing as "will of the people." There is only the "will of the majority."

As for your scenario, I don't see someone seizing power from an oppressive government only to relinquish said power. That's way too... idealistic.

Idealism is just how cynics refer to optimism.

And "cynics" is just how idealists call realists.

[Tolko Temnota]

I would stage a coup. Democracy's great and all, but tyranny of the majority is not something that should be strived for. This is why we have inalienable rights.

[Alvecia]

Idealism is just how cynics refer to optimism.

And "cynics" is just how idealists call realists.

Glad we had this chat

[Dumb Ideologies]

Coup coup shoop da whoop.

[Finland SSR]

Hence, a cabinet and a Parliament making moves against these values (such as genocide) would be acting against the Constitution and committing an attempt against the Constitution (plus, of course, various other crimes). Its acts should be vetoed by the President of the Republic and annulled by the Constitutional Court: failing that, as Chief of Etat Majeur of the Armed Forces and as loyal citizen of the Republic, I would be required to intervene to the full extent of my capacities to restore the Constitutional values of the Republic.

Or they could just change the Constitution first? Or write a new one? Since they got a majority support, a referendum for a change isn't far from being a success.

[The Sons of Adam]

I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?

[Dumb Ideologies]

I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?

Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?

[Russo-Byzantine Empire]

No, because there is no such thing as "will of the people." There is only the "will of the majority."

As for your scenario, I don't see someone seizing power from an oppressive government only to relinquish said power. That's way too... idealistic.

Still, though, a non genocidal dictatorship is better, IMO, than a genocidal democracy.

[Thermodolia]

Go full on Turkey with that shit, pull a coup and prepare for eventual return to civilian government. Why would a supporter of democracy, the ideal, not the process, allow such a blatant violation of basic liberal ideals? Have we forgotten the French Revolution so soon?

Apparently so

[Thermodolia]

I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?

Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?

So siging this!

[Hugdom]

I believe in a Republic, not mob rule. This would be mob rule.