Rape Culture, Fraternities, and Feminist Hogwash?!?

[Yorkvale]

Many feminists and liberals are taking up arms against college fraternities, suggesting an all out ban even. Many believe Fraternities add on to college rape culture, misogyny, and *laughs* the patriarchy.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/201 ... sororities
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/scr ... fe-n320211
http://www.newsweek.com/inside-colleges ... ood-231346
http://college.usatoday.com/2015/03/22/ ... end-frats/

Do you agree with this stance, and if so why?

Is this a genuinly look into one of the causes of rape culture, or just baseless and shameless feminist hogwash?

I for one think the arguments are absurd. College Fraternities remain places of brotherhood and gentleman behavior. They exist as a place to make connection that will last you for the rest of your life, and meet the right partners for whatever it is you want to do. They are a privilege to be in and the benefits they provide to pioneering individuals and the community around them far outweighs any negative they have.

The only real negatives are alleged hazings that are handled differently from college to college.

Regardless, fraternities and fraternities members have the freedom to associate and any ban on these esteemed social clubs is unconstitutional.

Do fraternities change college campuses and institutions for the better, or do they protrude a certain culture you find questionable at best? What have been your experiences with them in college, were they positive? Negative? Debate.

[Greed and Death]

Something about freedom of association says they can not be banned.

[Yorkvale]

Something about freedom of association says they can not be banned.

Well that's a view point of mine, I'm sure courts have cooked up something before that has side stepped freedom of association.

[Ifreann]

Many feminists and liberals are taking up arms against college fraternities...

Stop. Is there any real, serious movement advocating for an end to college fraternities? If so, then you should be able to link us to their websites and to news reports about their actions, so that we can learn what it is they actually argue and advocate for. If not, you can hardly expect us to have any kind of serious discussion about people you're just assuming to exist and whose positions and arguments you're making up yourself.

[Eol Sha]

Something about freedom of association says they can not be banned.

I'm fairly certain that that applies only to political and religious gatherings. Not fraternities. I may be wrong, though.

That said, no, I don't think fraternities should be banned. So long as nothing illegal or harmful is going on they should be allowed. However, if the college, both the student population and those in charge of the college, wants them gone then I see no reason to not acquiesce. If you have a problem with it then either go to a new college or try to get them back through various actions like petitioning, public protests, etc.

[Kvatchdom]

College fraternities are indeed banned in Finland, but there still are "clubs" for college students to join.

I'm assuming many feminists rose up against the fraternities due to the recent disturbing images of fraternities "inviting" freshmen girls to the colleges. I'll have you know that women-only clubs do that aswell, and is seen more as a joke here. I can't say for American colleges though.

[Rostogovia]

It would be a stretch to say that the existence of frats furthers rape culture, but I would still never want to join one.

[Ifreann]

College fraternities are indeed banned in Finland, but there still are "clubs" for college students to join.

I'm assuming many feminists rose up against the fraternities due to the recent disturbing images of fraternities "inviting" freshmen girls to the colleges. I'll have you know that women-only clubs do that aswell, and is seen more as a joke here. I can't say for American colleges though.

I'm assuming it was done by aliens.

[Yorkvale]

Many feminists and liberals are taking up arms against college fraternities...

Stop. Is there any real, serious movement advocating for an end to college fraternities? If so, then you should be able to link us to their websites and to news reports about their actions, so that we can learn what it is they actually argue and advocate for. If not, you can hardly expect us to have any kind of serious discussion about people you're just assuming to exist and whose positions and arguments you're making up yourself.

It isn't that uncommon of a view point at all among feminists and liberals, and a signifcantly disproportionate amount of people who hold that viewpoint seem to be feminist liberals. Nearly every article that suggests so is written by one.

[Khadgar]

You keep using the word feminist as an insult. This is fucking weird.

[Ifreann]

Stop. Is there any real, serious movement advocating for an end to college fraternities? If so, then you should be able to link us to their websites and to news reports about their actions, so that we can learn what it is they actually argue and advocate for. If not, you can hardly expect us to have any kind of serious discussion about people you're just assuming to exist and whose positions and arguments you're making up yourself.

It isn't that uncommon of a view point at all among feminists and liberals, and a signifcantly disproportionate amount of people who hold that viewpoint seem to be feminist liberals. Nearly every article that suggests so is written by one.

Then you should have no difficulty in providing the relevant evidence I mentioned.

[Yorkvale]

You keep using the word feminist as an insult. This is fucking weird.

I don't consider feminism to be a productive or righteous force in my political context. Simply women parroting victim narratives and "patriarchy" nonsense. Regardless while I dislike feminism/feminists this thread is about fraternities in general and the opinions people have on them and what your opinion is.

[Greed and Death]

Something about freedom of association says they can not be banned.

I'm fairly certain that that applies only to political and religious gatherings. Not fraternities. I may be wrong, though.

That said, no, I don't think fraternities should be banned. So long as nothing illegal or harmful is going on they should be allowed. However, if the college, both the student population and those in charge of the college, wants them gone then I see no reason to not acquiesce. If you have a problem with it then either go to a new college or try to get them back through various actions like petitioning, public protests, etc.

"implicit in the right to engage in activities protected by the First Amendment" is "a corresponding right to associate with others in pursuit of a wide variety of political, social, economic, educational, religious, and cultural ends."

Roberts v. United States Jaycees, 468 U.S. 609 (1984)

Note the court included Social, economic, educational, and cultural, further note the wording suggest very strongly that this list is not exhaustive.

[Ifreann]

You keep using the word feminist as an insult. This is fucking weird.

I don't consider feminism to be a productive or righteous force in my political context. Simply women parroting victim narratives and "patriarchy" nonsense. Regardless while I dislike feminism/feminists this thread is about fraternities in general and the opinions people have on them and what your opinion is.

So far this thread seems to be about the opinions that you say people have. As I write there is currently no evidence that these people exist outside of your head, much less any evidence that you are accurately representing their opinions.

[Yorkvale]

I don't consider feminism to be a productive or righteous force in my political context. Simply women parroting victim narratives and "patriarchy" nonsense. Regardless while I dislike feminism/feminists this thread is about fraternities in general and the opinions people have on them and what your opinion is.

So far this thread seems to be about the opinions that you say people have. As I write there is currently no evidence that these people exist outside of your head, much less any evidence that you are accurately representing their opinions.

updated op

[Cannot think of a name]

It isn't that uncommon of a view point at all among feminists and liberals, and a signifcantly disproportionate amount of people who hold that viewpoint seem to be feminist liberals. Nearly every article that suggests so is written by one.

Then you should have no difficulty in providing the relevant evidence I mentioned.

As a footnote, if the response is a vague reference to 'tumblr' we'll just consider this whole exercise clownshoes, the forum thread equivalent of someone muttering to themselves about bats on a street corner and walk on by accordingly.

[Ifreann]

So far this thread seems to be about the opinions that you say people have. As I write there is currently no evidence that these people exist outside of your head, much less any evidence that you are accurately representing their opinions.

updated op

Well, let's see what we've got here.

http://chicksontheright.com/blog/item/28510-liberal-feminist-to-college-fraternity-if-you-talk-about-sexual-assault-awareness-you-re-sexist

A blog about some comments one woman made on social media against a frat, none of which even called for fraternities to be banned.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stacey-dougan/rapebait-email-college_b_4086391.html

An article about comments from a frat leader about "luring rapebait", again no calls for fraternities to be banned.

http://dallasmorningviewsblog.dallasnews.com/2014/09/campus-rape-and-bans-on-fraternities.html/

Link times out.

[Khadgar]

Many feminists and liberals are taking up arms against college fraternities, suggesting an all out ban even. Many believe Fraternities add on to college rape culture, misogyny, and *laughs* the patriarchy.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stacey-do ... 86391.html

http://dallasmorningviewsblog.dallasnew ... ties.html/

http://chicksontheright.com/blog/item/2 ... -re-sexist

First link does nothing but show an instance of frat boys distributing a list of instructions as to how to manipulate women. So, not sure how you think that's helping your case.
Second link is specifically against banning frats and only mentions a single person having suggested doing so.
Third link has fuck all to do with banning frats.

None of these dispute that sexual assault happens. I'm unclear as to what you think you proved but I suggest that you have failed in your purpose.

[Eol Sha]

I'm fairly certain that that applies only to political and religious gatherings. Not fraternities. I may be wrong, though.

That said, no, I don't think fraternities should be banned. So long as nothing illegal or harmful is going on they should be allowed. However, if the college, both the student population and those in charge of the college, wants them gone then I see no reason to not acquiesce. If you have a problem with it then either go to a new college or try to get them back through various actions like petitioning, public protests, etc.

"implicit in the right to engage in activities protected by the First Amendment" is "a corresponding right to associate with others in pursuit of a wide variety of political, social, economic, educational, religious, and cultural ends."

Roberts v. United States Jaycees, 468 U.S. 609 (1984)

Note the court included Social, economic, educational, and cultural, further note the wording suggest very strongly that this list is not exhaustive.

I stand corrected.

[England-Wales-France]

Many feminists and liberals are taking up arms against college fraternities, suggesting an all out ban even. Many believe Fraternities add on to college rape culture, misogyny, and *laughs* the patriarchy.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stacey-do ... 86391.html

http://dallasmorningviewsblog.dallasnew ... ties.html/

http://chicksontheright.com/blog/item/2 ... -re-sexist

Do you agree with this stance, and if so why?

Is this a genuinly look into one of the causes of rape culture, or just baseless and shameless feminist hogwash?

I for one think the arguments are absurd. College Fraternities remain places of brotherhood and gentleman behavior. They exist as a place to make connection that will last you for the rest of your life, and meet the right partners for whatever it is you want to do. They are a privilege to be in and the benefits they provide to pioneering individuals and the community around them far outweighs any negative they have.

The only real negatives are alleged hazings that are handled differently from college to college.

Regardless, fraternities and fraternities members have the freedom to associate and any ban on these esteemed social clubs is unconstitutional.

Do fraternities change college campuses and institutions for the better, or do they protrude a certain culture you find questionable at best? What have been your experiences with them in college, were they positive? Negative? Debate.

Why Don't the Radical Feminist Point out Where the Rape Culture is when Asked,oh ya,They Only Care about Women,they Don't Care about Hermaphroditic or Male People,But Regular Feminist Do care about Everyone,not Just Women like Radical Feminist.

[Cannot think of a name]

updated op

Well, let's see what we've got here.

http://chicksontheright.com/blog/item/28510-liberal-feminist-to-college-fraternity-if-you-talk-about-sexual-assault-awareness-you-re-sexist

A blog about some comments one woman made on social media against a frat, none of which even called for fraternities to be banned.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stacey-dougan/rapebait-email-college_b_4086391.html

An article about comments from a frat leader about "luring rapebait", again no calls for fraternities to be banned.

http://dallasmorningviewsblog.dallasnews.com/2014/09/campus-rape-and-bans-on-fraternities.html/

Link times out.

He clearly grabbed headlines he didn't read, because the last article worked for me and it was a feminist who was suggesting that a ban on fraternities would be a symbolic move devoid of addressing the real problem. If he had read the articles he linked he would have followed the link in the first line of the response that led to and actual honest to god call for a ban, that of course was disagreed with by another feminist, almost as if any of these things are a lengthy discussion and not a hive mind.

[Yorkvale]

Well, let's see what we've got here.

A blog about some comments one woman made on social media against a frat, none of which even called for fraternities to be banned.


An article about comments from a frat leader about "luring rapebait", again no calls for fraternities to be banned.


Link times out.

He clearly grabbed headlines he didn't read, because the last article worked for me and it was a feminist who was suggesting that a ban on fraternities would be a symbolic move devoid of addressing the real problem. If he had read the articles he linked he would have followed the link in the first line of the response that led to and actual honest to god call for a ban, that of course was disagreed with by another feminist, almost as if any of these things are a lengthy discussion and not a hive mind.

Do you think college fraternities reinforce rape culture or not?

[Cannot think of a name]

He clearly grabbed headlines he didn't read, because the last article worked for me and it was a feminist who was suggesting that a ban on fraternities would be a symbolic move devoid of addressing the real problem. If he had read the articles he linked he would have followed the link in the first line of the response that led to and actual honest to god call for a ban, that of course was disagreed with by another feminist, almost as if any of these things are a lengthy discussion and not a hive mind.

Do you think college fraternities reinforce rape culture or not?

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

[Ifreann]

Many feminists and liberals are taking up arms against college fraternities, suggesting an all out ban even. Many believe Fraternities add on to college rape culture, misogyny, and *laughs* the patriarchy.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stacey-do ... 86391.html

http://dallasmorningviewsblog.dallasnew ... ties.html/

http://chicksontheright.com/blog/item/2 ... -re-sexist

Do you agree with this stance, and if so why?

Is this a genuinly look into one of the causes of rape culture, or just baseless and shameless feminist hogwash?

I for one think the arguments are absurd. College Fraternities remain places of brotherhood and gentleman behavior. They exist as a place to make connection that will last you for the rest of your life, and meet the right partners for whatever it is you want to do. They are a privilege to be in and the benefits they provide to pioneering individuals and the community around them far outweighs any negative they have.

The only real negatives are alleged hazings that are handled differently from college to college.

Regardless, fraternities and fraternities members have the freedom to associate and any ban on these esteemed social clubs is unconstitutional.

Do fraternities change college campuses and institutions for the better, or do they protrude a certain culture you find questionable at best? What have been your experiences with them in college, were they positive? Negative? Debate.

Why Don't the Radical Feminist Point out Where the Rape Culture is when Asked,oh ya,They Only Care about Women,they Don't Care about Hermaphroditic or Male People,But Regular Feminist Do care about Everyone,not Just Women like Radical Feminist.

You know, I'm sure I just saw another nation with this style of randomly capitalising words that had been deleted...

[Yorkvale]

Do you think college fraternities reinforce rape culture or not?

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

not an answer