Race and IQ

[Norepinephrinistania]

It's often claimed that race or ethnicity have nothing to do with intelligence. It seems to me that this belief is mislead. Human ethnic groups have lived in separation from each other for hundreds of thousands of years, enough time for significant evolutionary change to take place. There are different evolutionary pressures in sub-Saharan Africa as in Eurasia. It's safe to say it takes more intelligence to survive in some climates than in others, and therefore natural selection would raise the intelligence of humans in some climatic areas. Only 1% of the black (African American) population has an IQ over 120, but 9% of the white population does in the USA. As intelligence is an estimated 55% genetic, it would make senses different races have different genes regarding brain size, shape, and general intelligence. There is a documented difference in the shapes and sizes of racial groups.

The definitive study of race differences in brain size was carried out on approximately 20,000 crania by Professor Kenneth Beals and his colleagues at Oregon State University. Their results for endocranial volume, measured in cubic centimeters for the major races were as follows: North East Asians (Chinese, Japanese and Koreans): 1,416 cm; Europeans: 1,369cm; Native American Indians: 1,366cm; Southeast Asians: 1,332cm; Pacific Islanders: 1,317cm; South Asians: 1,293cm; Sub-Saharan Africans: 1,282cm; Bushmen: 1,270cm; Australian Aborigines: 1,225cm. These brain size differences correspond with intelligence differences derived from IQ tests given by Prof. Richard Lynn, who finds IQs of 105 for North East Asians,100 for Europeans, and so on downwards to 62 for Australian Aborigines and 54 for the Bushmen of the Kalahari desert.

It seems naive to think that with different shaped skulls, Africans would be just as intelligent. One cranial shape must be superior to fostering brain development than the other. There is a strong correlation between brain size and intelligence.

"Professor Philip A. Vernon of the University of Western Ontario and his colleagues have summarized studies of the correlation between intelligence and head size, and the correlation between intelligence and the size of the brain itself. Every one of 54 studies that measured head size showed a positive relationship, with an overall correlation of 0.18. Research using CT (computerized axial tomography) and MRI (magnetic resonance imaging) gives a more accurate measure of brain size, and the 11 studies that used these methods found an overall correlation with intelligence of 0.40. Prof. Vernon and his colleagues conclude that brain size must be a determinant of intelligence because larger brains have more neurons and this gives them greater processing capacity."

Having left Africa, Euraians evolved further away from chimpanzees. This is supported by DNA evidence.

It is claimed that racism lowers the self-esteem of blacks, lowering their IQ scores. In fact, American blacks have higher self-esteem than American whites, with Asians having the lowest self-esteem and highest IQ scores. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12002695

It is also claimed that poverty is the cause of low black IQ scores, but this is refuted by high-income blacks scoring lower than low-income whites on the SAT, shown to be a decent proxy for IQ and general intelligence.


"Culture" in general is cited as a reason for low African IQ, but the Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study showed black babies adopted by whites had an IQ consistent with black-raised black babies of the same income level.
The Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study showed blacks adopted by whites had an IQ of 89 at age 17, with the whites adopted by whites having an IQ of 106.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota ... tion_Study

Many scientists having studied evolution concluded on genetic influence of intelligence being different in different races, including Charles Darwin and James Watson, discoverer of DNA.

The topic of discussion is whether or not have different evolutionary pressure on different geographic regions of the world resulted in different levels of average intelligence between groups of homo sapiens.

"There is no firm reason to anticipate that the intellectual capacities of peoples geographically separated in their evolution should prove to have evolved identically. Our wanting to reserve equal powers of reason as some universal heritage of humanity will not be enough to make it so." - James Watson

[The Conez Imperium]

Are you seriously suggesting brain size correlates to intelligence?

Edit: May discussion run free and lively. Debate is good for you.

[Ifreann]

Is there a topic for discussion here, or did you just want to be wrong in public?

[Norepinephrinistania]

Are you seriously suggesting brain size correlates to intelligence?

It absolutely does, and if you looked at the spoiler you would have seen a quote from research showing it does.

[Norepinephrinistania]

Is there a topic for discussion here, or did you just want to be wrong in public?

Yes, have different evolutionary pressure on different geographic regions of the world resulted in different intelligence between groups of homo sapiens. Edited to reflect that.

[Zottistan]

If there is a geographical or racial relation to IQ, it's no small secret that white people tend to have more money than pretty much any other ethnic group, thus they tend to be better educated, thus they have higher average IQs.

IQ is also a really dumb way of measuring intelligence.

[Norepinephrinistania]

If there is a geographical or racial relation to IQ, it's no small secret that white people tend to have more money than pretty much any other ethnic group, thus they tend to be better educated, thus they have higher average IQs.

IQ is also a really dumb way of measuring intelligence.

Did you even see the SAT graph? Blacks and whites of the same income levels still have an IQ gap of about one standard deviation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Lega ... te_note-21

IQ is not perfect, no, but it's the best measure of intelligence we have. We could also use educational achievement if that's better for you, but the black-white gap is even stronger there.

[LA Cheese]

is it because of race or environment?

studies find that the gap closes as environmental factors are erased.

[Norepinephrinistania]

is it because of race or environment?

studies find that the gap closes as environmental factors are erased.

Citation needed. That was a hypothesis when the first black-white IQ studies were done, but the Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study as well as other have effectively refuted it.

[LA Cheese]

is it because of race or environment?

studies find that the gap closes as environmental factors are erased.

Citation needed. That was a hypothesis when the first black-white IQ studies were done, but the Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study as well as other have effectively refuted it.

example: certain religions, which tend to be predominantly black, are very evangelical, and thus tend to avoid science and scientific reasoning, putting students at a disadvantage on standardized tests. research done by zena blau.

[Esternial]

Oh God this again.

[LA Cheese]

link

the author of this text basically narrows the gap to like three IQ points once environmental factors are considered

[The Holy Therns]

But summer is over! What quippy half-assed comment will I now use to provide this topic with the respect it deserves?

[Norepinephrinistania]

link

the author of this text basically narrows the gap to like three IQ points once environmental factors are considered

Reading the article, it tests the IQ of young children. Blacks mature faster (average black menarche age is earlier, black babies walk sooner, and a host of other factors). It is theorized the superior intelligence of humans is at it's peak at adulthood, versus young neanderthals who would probably be similar in intelligence to young children. More intelligent animals always mature slower than less advanced. This is because it's hard to birth a very large skull. It's also best to have several studies pointing in one direction so it's less likely to be other factors (such as those specific to Chicago like in the study) or a fluke.

[Pandeeria]

IQ is also a really dumb way of measuring intelligence.

Brain size is also a very dumb way of measuring intelligence.

[LA Cheese]

link

the author of this text basically narrows the gap to like three IQ points once environmental factors are considered

Reading the article, it tests the IQ of young children. Blacks mature faster (average black menarche age is earlier, black babies walk sooner, and a host of other factors). It is theorized the superior intelligence of humans is at it's peak at adulthood, versus young neanderthals who would probably be similar in intelligence to young children. More intelligent animals always mature slower than less advanced. This is because it's hard to birth a very large skull. It's also best to have several studies pointing in one direction so it's less likely to be other factors (such as those specific to Chicago like in the study) or a fluke.

i call bullshit

there's timestamps on these posts, you know. there's no way you read that in less than ten minutes.

[Zottistan]

If there is a geographical or racial relation to IQ, it's no small secret that white people tend to have more money than pretty much any other ethnic group, thus they tend to be better educated, thus they have higher average IQs.

IQ is also a really dumb way of measuring intelligence.

Did you even see the SAT graph? Blacks and whites of the same income levels still have an IQ gap of about one standard deviation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Lega ... te_note-21

There are plenty of other disparities between blacks and whites of the same income level, due to cultural differences and institutionalized racism. I'm not a statistician, but I could see that adding up to the, what was it, 2.24 SD?

IQ is not perfect, no, but it's the best measure of intelligence we have. We could also use educational achievement if that's better for you, but the black-white gap is even stronger there.

Academic attainment in second level is not a good reflection on intelligence at all.

[Petrokovia]

It's often claimed that race or ethnicity have nothing to do with intelligence. It seems to me that this belief is mislead. Human ethnic groups have lived in separation from each other for hundreds of thousands of years, enough time for significant evolutionary change to take place.

We haven't been all that separate, at least not the Europeans and the Asians. So how do you explain that? Since the dawn of civilization and transportation, people have been trading goods and interacting with each other over continents. The whole "we've been isolated from each other" is kinda bollocks.

There are different evolutionary pressures in sub-Saharan Africa as in Eurasia. It's safe to say it takes more intelligence to survive in some climates than in others, and therefore natural selection would raise the intelligence of humans in some climatic areas.

Really? It takes more intelligence to live in one place than another? Says what scientific research? "It's safe to say" is unscientific, and thus proves nothing.

As intelligence is an estimated 55% genetic,

it would make senses different races have different genes regarding brain size, shape, and general intelligence. There is a documented difference in the shapes and sizes of racial groups.

Except, they don't.

[spoiler](Image)The definitive study of race differences in brain size was carried out on approximately 20,000 crania by Professor Kenneth Beals and his colleagues at Oregon State University. Their results for endocranial volume, measured in cubic centimeters for the major races were as follows: North East Asians (Chinese, Japanese and Koreans): 1,416 cm; Europeans: 1,369cm; Native American Indians: 1,366cm; Southeast Asians: 1,332cm; Pacific Islanders: 1,317cm; South Asians: 1,293cm; Sub-Saharan Africans: 1,282cm; Bushmen: 1,270cm; Australian Aborigines: 1,225cm. These brain size differences correspond with intelligence differences derived from IQ tests given by Prof. Richard Lynn, who finds IQs of 105 for North East Asians,100 for Europeans, and so on downwards to 62 for Australian Aborigines and 54 for the Bushmen of the Kalahari desert.

It seems naive to think that with different shaped skulls, Africans would be just as intelligent. One cranial shape must be superior to fostering brain development than the other. There is a strong correlation between brain size and intelligence.

"Professor Philip A. Vernon of the University of Western Ontario and his colleagues have summarized studies of the correlation between intelligence and head size, and the correlation between intelligence and the size of the brain itself. Every one of 54 studies that measured head size showed a positive relationship, with an overall correlation of 0.18. Research using CT (computerized axial tomography) and MRI (magnetic resonance imaging) gives a more accurate measure of brain size, and the 11 studies that used these methods found an overall correlation with intelligence of 0.40. Prof. Vernon and his colleagues conclude that brain size must be a determinant of intelligence because larger brains have more neurons and this gives them greater processing capacity."

Having left Africa, Euraians evolved further away from chimpanzees. This is supported by DNA evidence.

(Image)

It is claimed that racism lowers the self-esteem of blacks, lowering their IQ scores. In fact, American blacks have higher self-esteem than American whites, with Asians having the lowest self-esteem and highest IQ scores. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12002695

It is also claimed that poverty is the cause of low black IQ scores, but this is refuted by high-income blacks scoring lower than low-income whites on the SAT, shown to be a decent proxy for IQ and general intelligence.
(Image)

"Culture" in general is cited as a reason for low African IQ, but the Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study showed black babies adopted by whites had an IQ consistent with black-raised black babies of the same income level.
The Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study showed blacks adopted by whites had an IQ of 89 at age 17, with the whites adopted by whites having an IQ of 106.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota ... tion_Study[/spoiler]

Bollocks "evidence" is bollocks. IQ and head circumference don't really tell you jack about someone's intelligence. Plus, it has "bias" written all over it. There is no scientific evidence for any unique genetic variation among the "races".

"There is no firm reason to anticipate that the intellectual capacities of peoples geographically separated in their evolution should prove to have evolved identically. Our wanting to reserve equal powers of reason as some universal heritage of humanity will not be enough to make it so." - James Watson

Watson's logic here is flawed, as there is no definition of intelligence that can be applied universally, so you can't really generalize.

Here's some further reading: http://www.quora.com/What-scientific-ev ... cal-racism

[Esternial]

Irrelevant.

Brain size hardly has as significant an impact on IQ as does brain quality, determined by genes.

Still a nice try, OP, but no dice. The fact is none of these testing methods can possibly be culturally neutral.

[Grave_n_idle]

It's often claimed that race or ethnicity have nothing to do with intelligence...

Interestingly, real science suggests racism is directly related to low IQ.

Isn't that fascinating?

[Norepinephrinistania]

Did you even see the SAT graph? Blacks and whites of the same income levels still have an IQ gap of about one standard deviation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Lega ... te_note-21

There are plenty of other disparities between blacks and whites of the same income level, due to cultural differences and institutionalized racism. I'm not a statistician, but I could see that adding up to the, what was it, 2.24 SD?

IQ is not perfect, no, but it's the best measure of intelligence we have. We could also use educational achievement if that's better for you, but the black-white gap is even stronger there.

Academic attainment in second level is not a good reflection on intelligence at all.

The Minnesota Transracial Adoption study showed the same difference, about one standard deviation, in blacks adopted by whites, which would mostly eliminate cultural difference regarding academics. Our institutions are now in fact biased towards blacks (not opinion, fact), in the way that universities have affirmative action or that the Federal Government and some private corporations give preferential hiring to blacks.

Interesting anecdote: IQ testing was widespread among employers until it was banned by law because it was leading to less blacks being hired.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griggs_v._Duke_Power_Co.

[L Ron Cupboard]

Can't we just ignore moronic shit like this? Just let idiot threads die.

[Grave_n_idle]

Our institutions are now in fact biased towards blacks (not opinion, fact)...

Saying that your opinion is not an opinion, but a fact - doesn't make it a fact.

But then, a zero-post nation starting out during the summer holidays with a 'blacks are inferior' thread didn't give me high hopes, to be honest.

[Norepinephrinistania]

It's often claimed that race or ethnicity have nothing to do with intelligence...

Interestingly, real science suggests racism is directly related to low IQ.

Isn't that fascinating?

Having associated with white nationalists, I can attest to that being true. Unfortunately, it is professional suicide to make any kind of politically incorrect statement about blacks, so it's only the unemployed or low-skilled workers who would be honest about being racist. In my experience, white liberals rarely associated with blacks, and the South, considered the most racist region of the country, also has the most blacks of any region by a large margin.

[Norepinephrinistania]

Our institutions are now in fact biased towards blacks (not opinion, fact)...

Saying that your opinion is not an opinion, but a fact - doesn't make it a fact.

But then, a zero-post nation starting out during the summer holidays with a 'blacks are inferior' thread didn't give me high hopes, to be honest.

So what? Affirmative action and preferential hiring to minorities aren't real? That's the only palpable discrimination in our institutions there is on a consistent basis.