Korea of the North, Thine Crimes Shall be Revealed!

[Costa Fierro]

Someone give this man a million cookies:

A biochemical weapons expert in North Korea defected from the Kim Jong-un regime and fled to Finland, reportedly carrying proof of 'human experiments' conducted in the country.

The 47-year-old expert, identified as Lee, is said to have at least 15 gigabytes of information on the results of 'human experiments' done in North Korea, South Korea's Yonhap News agency reported, citing a human rights group.

Shocking reports of human experimentation on disabled people, including children, had come out last December after two defectors highlighted the extent of human abuse in the country.

The defectors had revealed that chemical and biological weapons tests had been conducted on disabled children, according to The Telegraph.

Human rights activist in South Korea had accused North Korea of such human experiments in 2013.

Godspeed, my son and let loose the feared Tongue of Truth!

There we have it, ladies and gentlemen. As if we didn't know it already, North Korea has been performing inhuman acts against its own citizens. This time, instead of force labour, widespread torture and letting Kim Jong-un eat all the food, we now have human experimentation.

And yet somehow, it pains me to say this, but the world will keep spinning. The world may be utterly shocked at the kinds of depravity the North Korean state commits against its citizens on a daily basis, but who is going to stop them? The government is like a crazed crack addict with a grenade in a classroom full of schoolchildren. If we try and do anything, millions will die and we can't expect any of the citizens to rise up against the state because they'll just get slaughtered.

Either way, what say you, NSG?

[Yuchania]

I agree with most of your statements, except the last one. Yeah, this is just another rather morbid fact about the hermit kingdom and it most likely won't warrant any international outrage.

However, believe it or not, things are changing over there. Albeit very slowly. The Kim regime doesn't have the firm hold it did under Kim Il-sung or Kim Jong-il. Give it a generation or two and things will most certainly change.

[Wallenburg]

I am increasingly baffled that the UN doesn't condone a drone strike on Kim Jong-un's palace.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Lies! Lies and Slander! Foul Western american lies! North Korea is best Korea!!1!

(And yet someone will most likely post something like this and honestly believe it)

Seriously, brave fella that man, and im honestly not surprised.

[Tsaraine]

Calling the DPRK a "crazed crack addict" isn't too far from the truth, since one of the ways the regime stays fiscally solvent is through the manufacture and sale of methamphetamines. Turns out when you're already a pariah and just don't give a fuck, you can do all sorts of things to make money.

Sadly, you're broadly correct that there isn't much hope of change - it'd take either a) some kind of anti-Kim palace coup by a pro-outside-world generalissimo, b) North Korea pissing off China enough to get the PRC to crack heads, or c) North Korea pissing off the West enough to get the PRC to look the other way while the USA cracks heads. Since neither China nor the USA exactly want to get drawn into nation-building, we're left hoping that things will somehow improve from within. Which is unlikely to say the least.

[The Islamic Cooperative]

First of all, as cynical one might be towards NK (and such cynicism is very justified), one must wait for the biochemical weapons expert to give his evidences to the world. We, however unlikely as it might sound, still have to consider NK innocent until proven otherwise

[Yuchania]

There's a Frontline documentary on how North Korea has changed since Kim Jong-un took power, and how activists in both China and South Korea are speeding things up a bit by smuggling in western media and such.

[The Third Nova Terra of Scrin]

I am increasingly baffled that the UN doesn't condone a drone strike on Kim Jong-un's palace.

Because drone strikes are not a magic solution to something anything bad. For instance, they're just a robotic toy the American military uses sometimes.

[USS Monitor]

I am tempted to pay them a visit. Do you think their navy is obsolete enough for me to beat them?

[Laerod]

First of all, as cynical one might be towards NK (and such cynicism is very justified), one must wait for the biochemical weapons expert to give his evidences to the world. We, however unlikely as it might sound, still have to consider NK innocent until proven otherwise

Nah, we're not judges or jurors.

[Washington Resistance Army]

I am tempted to pay them a visit. Do you think their navy is obsolete enough for me to beat them?

Sorry Monitor, you may be a fine ship and all but you'd get str8 rekt.

[Wallenburg]

I am increasingly baffled that the UN doesn't condone a drone strike on Kim Jong-un's palace.

Because drone strikes are not a magic solution to something anything bad. For instance, they're just a robotic toy the American military uses sometimes.

Well how would you respond?

[Washington Resistance Army]

Because drone strikes are not a magic solution to something anything bad. For instance, they're just a robotic toy the American military uses sometimes.

Well how would you respond?

Not much the UN can do to be honest.

[Wine-loving Chimps]

I am tempted to pay them a visit. Do you think their navy is obsolete enough for me to beat them?

Sorry mate, but they got a more recent ship than you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Pueblo_(AGER-2)

[Wallenburg]

Well how would you respond?

Not much the UN can do to be honest.

It could sanction a response by, say, NATO.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Not much the UN can do to be honest.

It could sanction a response by, say, NATO.

And that response would result in a massive amount of dead people and numerous East Asian cities reduced to radioactive rubble.

[The Third Nova Terra of Scrin]

It could sanction a response by, say, NATO.

And that response would result in a massive amount of dead people and numerous East Asian cities reduced to radioactive rubble.

Do you really think they would have the tenacity to use up their nukes?

[Mefpan]

Nothing will happen. The situation has merely changed from "We know with absolute certainty that they're doing it but don't have solid proof" to "We know they're doing it and we have proof".

But for the sake of jingoist warmongering, I'll express my hope that someday the People's Republic of China takes care of that particular wart on its face. I doubt the Chinese could fuck up the administration of northern Korea any worse than the Norks have.

[Wallenburg]

It could sanction a response by, say, NATO.

And that response would result in a massive amount of dead people and numerous East Asian cities reduced to radioactive rubble.

IIRC, NK only has one dinky nuke (they might have already exploded it in testing, even). Either way, I see your point. Unfortunately, I don't see the situation ever resolving without appalling bloodshed.

[Washington Resistance Army]

And that response would result in a massive amount of dead people and numerous East Asian cities reduced to radioactive rubble.

Do you really think they would have the tenacity to use up their nukes?

Yes actually I do, if we attacked them in any capacity and they started to lose I have no doubts that nukes would fly.

And that response would result in a massive amount of dead people and numerous East Asian cities reduced to radioactive rubble.

IIRC, NK only has one dinky nuke (they might have already exploded it in testing, even). Either way, I see your point. Unfortunately, I don't see the situation ever resolving without appalling bloodshed.

20-40 actually depending on which source you believe, with multiple tested. I know an awful lot about the KPA, and I have no doubts they would go nuclear.

[Thelonia]

As you say, the world will keep spinning.
To me it seems like North Korea has been able to create a state where "change from within" is largely impossible. Even if the supreme leader himself would become benevolent and initiate reforms the military leadership would probably not accept such changes. Furthermore the cost of forceful "humanitarian" intervention and the response from the north korean military would be high enough for the north korean public, the intervening states and NK's neighbors for it be almost entirely unlikely.

The only instigator for change i see is large scale catastrophic events, be it mass famine or something else, which could undermine the stability of the state. North Korea has shown itself to be able to handle such events and even if it would be undermined, the outcome would probably be highly unstable, messy and bloody.

How should the outside world react to such a regime? Should we bite the bullet and help stabilize the state through food aid and restrained responses to its brinkmanship to avoid instability and catastrophe? Should we try to foster change peacefully, even though it seems all but impossible? Should we actively seek to introduce change through force, even though the cost would be very high and it would become really messy?
Lastly, what would be the most constructive reaction to a collapsed, or perhaps more importantly a collapsing North Korean state?

[Mushet]

I'm not shocked, it's no secret, especially in this day and age, that NK is a fucked up place. And with the regime's reputation for insanity not much surprises me about it.

The Hermit Kingdom can't stay that way forever, especially in times like these. From what I've been reading about North Korea things are changing for the better, but it'll have to happen gradually. I believe engagement to be the best policy.

[Thelonia]

I am increasingly baffled that the UN doesn't condone a drone strike on Kim Jong-un's palace.

You want to kill the leader of a highly jingoistic, militarized and nationalist society which is likely to have both nuclear and chemical weapons? Sounds a lot like putting your genitals near a shaken up wasp nest.

[The Third Nova Terra of Scrin]

Do you really think they would have the tenacity to use up their nukes?

Yes actually I do, if we attacked them in any capacity and they started to lose I have no doubts that nukes would fly.

IIRC, NK only has one dinky nuke (they might have already exploded it in testing, even). Either way, I see your point. Unfortunately, I don't see the situation ever resolving without appalling bloodshed.

20-40 actually depending on which source you believe, with multiple tested. I know an awful lot about the KPA, and I have no doubts they would go nuclear.

Knowing of their behavior, it indeed is very plausible.

[Ainin]

I am increasingly baffled that the UN doesn't condone a drone strike on Kim Jong-un's palace.

The UN isn't particularly efficient, but it's not stupid enough to send a drone of all things into one of the most heavily defended airspaces on Earth.