What if the Empire supported the Confederacy?

[Infected Mushroom]

Imagine if in the American Civil War, the British Empire entered and supported the Confederacy, declaring war on the United States.

What would have happened?

Would the Confederates successfully secede? Or would Lincoln's forces prevail regardless and crush the independence movement?

I believe that if Britain had entered, France would have followed suit. The blockade would have been broken (the USA wouldn't be able to hurt and destroy the Southern economy). I think an army of Imperials would have marched down from Canada and turned the tide of the war by forcing Lincoln to fight on two fronts. New York would likely fall as will the capital.

Or is the USA too powerful?

What do you think?

[The Nuclear Fist]

The US was already starting to build power, but I'd imagine that if the British declared on one side, the French and/or the Russians would declare on the other. And then the war gets much bloodier than it already was.

And no, the British should not have intervened on the side of pig fucking pseudo-aristocrat slaver scum.

[Risottia]

I believe that if Britain had entered, France would have followed suit.

I don't think France would have entered. Instead, it would have exploited the British effort in that war to expand its African and Asian colonies further, at the expenses of the British empire. It was still before the Entente Cordiale, you know...

And no, the British should not have intervened on the side of pig fucking pseudo-aristocrat slaver scum.

I would go further and state that the British Empire was already the strongest force that opposed the slave trade at the time.

[New Skaaneland]

I think the South would've won under those conditions, yes. However they would've had to take on UK themselves if they'd want their nation to prosper after winning that war, as the British already had high demands of tributes before the first war of independance. Imagine the accumulated taxes, let alone the cost for the war against the Northern states, which the Brits would've required. They would most likely also have demanded compensations for persecutions against those loyal to the crown and it would've taken quite some time for the Americans to repay for their rebellion. After that the British influence would continue to be great - unless defeated in the additional war - and once they'd had their share Britain might even had demanded themselves for US to abolish slavery. Economically the whole thing would've been a disaster for the American settlers and at this point even the Indians might've become a serious threat.

[Escanthea]

First world war starts 53 years early.
The US army weren't exactly pushovers btw, this wasn't the war of 1812. USA had industiralized in the north, and was capable of supporting a much bigger army than the canadian garrisons. The civil war draft was easily dodged, but if the war stepped up and conscription got seirous you could expect a metirc asston of fighting men to be spewed out. The US only took as long as it did during the war because of bad generals. If some competant leaders got conscripted you can bet the armies in canada wouldn't be much of a threat, they certainly wouldn't be effective as an invasion force, far too much numerical inferiority. The naval disadvantage would've hurt the US to be sure, but a quick assault on new orleans would stop exports in the mississipi and eliminate the need for a blockade anyway. Also, the US had a brown water navy, and Britain didn't, so attempting to take rivers would've been hard. Let's also not forget that since the early wars with britain defenses across the Eastern Coast had their guns pointed towards the atlantic, making amphibious invasion hard. Britain wasn't exactly at its height right now either, so they didn't have an astronomical advantage. Troubles in Europe meant that if France joined an american war they would end up getting double-teamed by Prussia and Italy at the same time while they were focused on the US, so their involvement would've been minimal before they pulled out to fight off all the people napoleon pissed off. This would've been a destructive and pointless war with no clear winner, but the US certainly wouldn't be a pushover, that's for sure.

[Herrebrugh]

More lasers.

[Farnhamia]

First world war starts 53 years early. Canada gets torched, usa gets torched, nobody wins

I hardly think Great Britain would intervene on the side of people who's entire rationale for forming a new country was to perpetuate slavery, even if it meant twisting Brother Jonathan's nose.

[Devon Teyson]

First world war starts 53 years early. Canada gets torched, usa gets torched, nobody wins

I hardly think Great Britain would intervene on the side of people who's entire rationale for forming a new country was to perpetuate slavery, even if it meant twisting Brother Jonathan's nose.

I strongly agree.

[Ifreann]

What if Danaerys Targaryen led her army of Unsullied and a Dothraki khalessar though an inter-universal portal to the South to free all the slaves? The two scenarios are approximately as likely.

[Dumb Ideologies]

What if Danaerys Targaryen led her army of Unsullied and a Dothraki khalessar though an inter-universal portal to the South to free all the slaves? The two scenarios are approximately as likely.

What if the Greys flew the rogue planet Niburu at Abraham Lincoln's moon base?

[Ifreann]

What if Danaerys Targaryen led her army of Unsullied and a Dothraki khalessar though an inter-universal portal to the South to free all the slaves? The two scenarios are approximately as likely.

What if the Greys flew the rogue planet Niburu at Abraham Lincoln's moon base?

I wouldn't put it past them.

[Devon Teyson]

What if Danaerys Targaryen led her army of Unsullied and a Dothraki khalessar though an inter-universal portal to the South to free all the slaves? The two scenarios are approximately as likely.

What if the Greys flew the rogue planet Niburu at Abraham Lincoln's moon base?

What if Jul Mdama joined the Union to fight against the Others, then led the Night's Watch to Casterly Rock after teleporting them into his cruiser, and evacuated the Confederates to Asshai?

[Greed and Death]

The US was already starting to build power, but I'd imagine that if the British declared on one side, the French and/or the Russians would declare on the other. And then the war gets much bloodier than it already was.

And no, the British should not have intervened on the side of pig fucking pseudo-aristocrat slaver scum.

Russians really would not have cared, and the French would likely have also sided more openly with the confederates if the British had.

Both the British and the French almost became overt confederate allies as part of real politik to divide the major power in North America. The reason they did not was Lincoln's emancipation proclamation made it clear supporting the confederacy would have been supporting slavery. Both politically unpopular position in France and the UK. I will say the greatest unrecognized genius of the civil war was Lincoln's ability to play European politics.

If he had been just slightly less savvy the covert aid of the British and French would have become overt aid sometime after the 2nd battle of bull run.

[Infected Mushroom]

I believe that if Britain had entered, France would have followed suit.

I don't think France would have entered. Instead, it would have exploited the British effort in that war to expand its African and Asian colonies further, at the expenses of the British empire. It was still before the Entente Cordiale, you know...

And no, the British should not have intervened on the side of pig fucking pseudo-aristocrat slaver scum.

I would go further and state that the British Empire was already the strongest force that opposed the slave trade at the time.

Great Britain doesn't oppose slavery.

Their leadership as sympathetic towards the Confederate cause. Their working class less so but the elites preferred the South.

Also, they were the ultimate colonial masters.

[Infected Mushroom]

What if Danaerys Targaryen led her army of Unsullied and a Dothraki khalessar though an inter-universal portal to the South to free all the slaves? The two scenarios are approximately as likely.

please don't derail my thread

[Ifreann]

I don't think France would have entered. Instead, it would have exploited the British effort in that war to expand its African and Asian colonies further, at the expenses of the British empire. It was still before the Entente Cordiale, you know...


I would go further and state that the British Empire was already the strongest force that opposed the slave trade at the time.

Great Britain doesn't oppose slavery.

Great Britain abolished slavery in 1833, 28 years before America's civil war started.

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What if Danaerys Targaryen led her army of Unsullied and a Dothraki khalessar though an inter-universal portal to the South to free all the slaves? The two scenarios are approximately as likely.

please don't derail my thread

I'll try, but it's a very silly thread and rather begs silly responses.

[Greed and Death]

I don't think France would have entered. Instead, it would have exploited the British effort in that war to expand its African and Asian colonies further, at the expenses of the British empire. It was still before the Entente Cordiale, you know...


I would go further and state that the British Empire was already the strongest force that opposed the slave trade at the time.

Great Britain doesn't oppose slavery.

Their leadership as sympathetic towards the Confederate cause. Their working class less so but the elites preferred the South.

Also, they were the ultimate colonial masters.

At about 15 years after the repeal of the corn tax, the working class had the ability to influence policy at this time even at the expense of the landed gentry.

[Infected Mushroom]

Great Britain doesn't oppose slavery.

Their leadership as sympathetic towards the Confederate cause. Their working class less so but the elites preferred the South.

Also, they were the ultimate colonial masters.

At about 15 years after the repeal of the corn tax, the working class had the ability to influence policy at this time even at the expense of the landed gentry.

it still doesn't make them anti-slavery

if they were, they wouldn't be a colonial power and their leaders wouldn't have pro-Confederate sympathies

[Infected Mushroom]

Great Britain doesn't oppose slavery.

Great Britain abolished slavery in 1833, 28 years before America's civil war started.

But they continued to colonise entire nations and to buy cotton from slave states

[St Salvador]

theirs a book series called southern victory by harry turtledove if your that interested in the confederacy winning.
me:if the british join just before gettysburg their likely to lose along with the confederacy. The union army by 1863 was just as good maybe better than most european armies. the west coast could probably get a bigger part in the war as well maybe stopping a british landing in california or an invasion of texas via new mexico. it would probably end like the war of 1812 but with the south occupied. The very idea of them taking washington that time around is funny since it was heavily fortified and garrisoned by a large army. oh yeah and will probably ally ourselves with the german empire do to british empires betrayal. which means worldwar ones gonna be a lot more interesting.

[Ifreann]

Great Britain abolished slavery in 1833, 28 years before America's civil war started.

But they continued to colonise entire nations and to buy cotton from slave states

Buying cotton from slavers and continuing to hold colonies is one thing. Fighting a war to preserve slavery in America after abolishing slavery themselves is rather another.

[Farnhamia]

theirs a book series called southern victory by harry turtledove if your that interested in the confederacy winning.
me:if the british join just before gettysburg their likely to lose along with the confederacy. The union army by 1863 was just as good maybe better than most european armies. the west coast could probably get a bigger part in the war as well maybe stopping a british landing in california or an invasion of texas via new mexico. it would probably end like the war of 1812 but with the south occupied. The very idea of them taking washington that time around is funny since it was heavily fortified and garrisoned by a large army. oh yeah and will probably ally ourselves with the german empire do to british empires betrayal. which means worldwar ones gonna be a lot more interesting.

The British are going to ship an army to California? How? There were no trans-continental railways and sending them by sea would take forever. New Mexico belonged to the United States and by 1864 Mexico was under French occupation.

[Ifreann]

theirs a book series called southern victory by harry turtledove if your that interested in the confederacy winning.
me:if the british join just before gettysburg their likely to lose along with the confederacy. The union army by 1863 was just as good maybe better than most european armies. the west coast could probably get a bigger part in the war as well maybe stopping a british landing in california or an invasion of texas via new mexico. it would probably end like the war of 1812 but with the south occupied. The very idea of them taking washington that time around is funny since it was heavily fortified and garrisoned by a large army. oh yeah and will probably ally ourselves with the german empire do to british empires betrayal. which means worldwar ones gonna be a lot more interesting.

The British are going to ship an army to California? How? There were no trans-continental railways and sending them by sea would take forever. New Mexico belonged to the United States and by 1864 Mexico was under French occupation.

Hot air balloons. Thousands and thousands of hot air balloons.

[Risottia]

Great Britain doesn't oppose slavery.

Uh uh.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_Abolition_Act_1833

[Risottia]

The British are going to ship an army to California? How? There were no trans-continental railways and sending them by sea would take forever. New Mexico belonged to the United States and by 1864 Mexico was under French occupation.

Hot air balloons. Thousands and thousands of hot air balloons.

Just march the Highlanders through Canada.

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