US Prison Too "Inhuman" for Extradition

[Chestaan]

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/co ... 42862.html

An Algerian-born Irish citizen has won his court battle against his extradition to the United States for charges of terrorism.

According the judge. the extradition order was refused because:

"In all the circumstances, there are substantial grounds for believing that Mr Damache will be at real risk of being subjected to inhuman and degrading treatment if extradited to the USA,” the judge said.

Apparently the chance of this degrading and inhuman treatment was so bad that Amnesty International actually testified on his behalf:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-an ... -1.2018837

The prison in question, ADX supermax prison in Florence, Colorado, is said to have exceptionally harsh conditions and the long spells spent in solitary confinement were especially called into question.

I am glad to see that the Irish Justice System refusing this extradition order. It appears that the prison in question has absolutely horrific conditions for prisoners and nobody should have to go through them. This goes to further highlight that conditions in US prisons are shamefully bad for what is supposed to be a civilised and modern nation. Extradition orders like this are generally only expected to be refused on these grounds when the country in question is some sort of third-world tinpot dictatorship. Prison conditions need to be improved in the US.

What is your opinion, NSG?

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

This is what happens when you lose the moral high ground. This is what should continue to happen until we actually clean up our shit and prosecute torturers in our government.

[MERIZoC]

Hm, interesting.

[Laerod]

This is what happens when you lose the moral high ground. This is what should continue to happen until we actually clean up our shit and prosecute torturers in our government.

I think the issue here is that the US is the prison country of the world. He wouldn't have been heading to Guantanamo, but the regular US prison system.

[Tsaraine]

This is what happens when you lose the moral high ground. This is what should continue to happen until we actually clean up our shit and prosecute torturers in our government.

I think the issue here is that the US is the prison country of the world. He wouldn't have been heading to Guantanamo, but the regular US prison system.

And the regular US prison system is so bad that first world nations won't extradite people into it. That's ... a really damning indictment of just how bad things have become. I would hope that this would spur some reform in the US penal system, but who am I kidding? The US prison-industrial complex isn't going anywhere.

[Chestaan]

I think the issue here is that the US is the prison country of the world. He wouldn't have been heading to Guantanamo, but the regular US prison system.

And the regular US prison system is so bad that first world nations won't extradite people into it. That's ... a really damning indictment of just how bad things have become. I would hope that this would spur some reform in the US penal system, but who am I kidding? The US prison-industrial complex isn't going anywhere.

To be honest I would be surprised if it even makes news in the US. I am not so sure that the actions of a judge in a small nation will have much of an impact unfortunately. But at least Amnesty are on the case and hopefully they can push for some action.

[MERIZoC]

I think the issue here is that the US is the prison country of the world. He wouldn't have been heading to Guantanamo, but the regular US prison system.

And the regular US prison system is so bad that first world nations won't extradite people into it. That's ... a really damning indictment of just how bad things have become. I would hope that this would spur some reform in the US penal system, but who am I kidding? The US prison-industrial complex isn't going anywhere.

As long as money can be made….

[Chestaan]

And the regular US prison system is so bad that first world nations won't extradite people into it. That's ... a really damning indictment of just how bad things have become. I would hope that this would spur some reform in the US penal system, but who am I kidding? The US prison-industrial complex isn't going anywhere.

As long as money can be made….

Is this what is the main problem with the system? The fact that prisons are for profit? Such a system doesn't make sense to me as it just encourages high incarceration rates to maximise profits.

[Neutraligon]

As long as money can be made….

Is this what is the main problem with the system? The fact that prisons are for profit? Such a system doesn't make sense to me as it just encourages high incarceration rates to maximise profits.

I think the problem is two fold. The first is that we have a for profit system in addition to the government one. The second is that many people feel that prison is meant to be a punishment. Essentially the system is based on revenge more than safety and rehabilitation.

[Meryuma]

I sure do love good ol' American freedom.

[Arbolvine]

Slow. Clap. Flip. Desk.

[Empire of Narnia]

This is what Seal Team Six is for.

[Nazi Flower Power]

As long as money can be made….

Is this what is the main problem with the system? The fact that prisons are for profit? Such a system doesn't make sense to me as it just encourages high incarceration rates to maximise profits.

That is one problem.

The War on Drugs has also contributed to the high incarceration rate, and there are some cultural factors, particularly in the South and West. Some places are very moralistic and are more concerned about people facing consequences for their actions (and the more consequences, the better!) rather than focusing on what will actually make society run smoothly.

[The Nuclear Fist]

This is what Seal Team Six is for.

No it isn't.

[Wulfenia]

I would tell the US to get it's shit together, but who am I kidding.

The US will never get it's shit together.

[Laerod]

Is this what is the main problem with the system? The fact that prisons are for profit? Such a system doesn't make sense to me as it just encourages high incarceration rates to maximise profits.

I think the problem is two fold. The first is that we have a for profit system in addition to the government one. The second is that many people feel that prison is meant to be a punishment. Essentially the system is based on revenge more than safety and rehabilitation.

I'd be interested to see how that mentality correlates to beliefs on corporal punishment for children. If one grows up with harsh punishments, it stands to reason that that is what one expects to be administered by society as well.

[Nazi Flower Power]

I think the problem is two fold. The first is that we have a for profit system in addition to the government one. The second is that many people feel that prison is meant to be a punishment. Essentially the system is based on revenge more than safety and rehabilitation.

I'd be interested to see how that mentality correlates to beliefs on corporal punishment for children. If one grows up with harsh punishments, it stands to reason that that is what one expects to be administered by society as well.

AFAIK, the South has both more widespread use of corporal punishment and higher incarceration rates. I don't know if the correlation holds up when you get down to an individual level rather than just comparing regions. But I read a thing the ACLU published about corporal punishment in schools, and the states that allow corporal punishment in schools are pretty much the same ones that are locking up excessive numbers of people even by US standards.

[Risottia]

What is your opinion, NSG?

The US prison system rather notoriously fails to meet the criteria CoE countries are supposed to uphold. No big surprise there.

This is what Seal Team Six is for.

And this attitude is exactly what makes countries and people from all over the world rather pissed off about the US.

[Laerod]

I'd be interested to see how that mentality correlates to beliefs on corporal punishment for children. If one grows up with harsh punishments, it stands to reason that that is what one expects to be administered by society as well.

AFAIK, the South has both more widespread use of corporal punishment and higher incarceration rates. I don't know if the correlation holds up when you get down to an individual level rather than just comparing regions. But I read a thing the ACLU published about corporal punishment in schools, and the states that allow corporal punishment in schools are pretty much the same ones that are locking up excessive numbers of people even by US standards.

The White Ribbon does a relatively good job of unravelling how a society that uses excessive punishment breeds a desire to see excessive punishment done to those that appear to do wrong. Watching it, I just kept thinking "Holy shit, so that's why the Rape of Belgium happened!" and the same basic mentality of "wrongdoing MUST be punished!" seems to underlie the "tough on crime" approach in the US.

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

The White Ribbon does a relatively good job of unravelling how a society that uses excessive punishment breeds a desire to see excessive punishment done to those that appear to do wrong. Watching it, I just kept thinking "Holy shit, so that's why the Rape of Belgium happened!" and the same basic mentality of "wrongdoing MUST be punished!" seems to underlie the "tough on crime" approach in the US.

There's also the 'criminals aren't like you and me, they're filthy animals that need to be locked up" vibe.

[Nazi Flower Power]

The White Ribbon does a relatively good job of unravelling how a society that uses excessive punishment breeds a desire to see excessive punishment done to those that appear to do wrong. Watching it, I just kept thinking "Holy shit, so that's why the Rape of Belgium happened!" and the same basic mentality of "wrongdoing MUST be punished!" seems to underlie the "tough on crime" approach in the US.

There's also the 'criminals aren't like you and me, they're filthy animals that need to be locked up" vibe.

And social divisions along racial lines only exacerbate it.

[Laerod]

The White Ribbon does a relatively good job of unravelling how a society that uses excessive punishment breeds a desire to see excessive punishment done to those that appear to do wrong. Watching it, I just kept thinking "Holy shit, so that's why the Rape of Belgium happened!" and the same basic mentality of "wrongdoing MUST be punished!" seems to underlie the "tough on crime" approach in the US.

There's also the 'criminals aren't like you and me, they're filthy animals that need to be locked up" vibe.

Question is whether that is a cause or a defense mechanism to avoid empathizing with other human beings being subjected to the inhumane prison system.

[Barrera]

The U.S. imprisons more of its citizens than any other country on Earth and executes more of its prisoners than anyone else except China. The state of the justice system in the country is a joke. Especially for black people: 40% of the prison population is black against 13% of the general public.

I'm glad Ireland has seen sense and recognized—like all European countries should—that U.S. prison "standards" are not acceptable, even for those worst offenders.

[Miasto Lodz]

Apparently the chance of this degrading and inhuman treatment was so bad that Amnesty International actually testified on his behalf:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-an ... -1.2018837

AI supporting muslim terrorists. How surprising.

[Neutraligon]

Apparently the chance of this degrading and inhuman treatment was so bad that Amnesty International actually testified on his behalf:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-an ... -1.2018837

AI supporting muslim terrorists. How surprising.

Do we know if he will be prosecuted in Ireland? Also, not allowing inhuman treatment of someone is not the same things as supporting them.