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[DRAFT] Repeal "Ban Profits on Workers' Deaths"

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Conservative Values
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[DRAFT] Repeal "Ban Profits on Workers' Deaths"

Postby Conservative Values » Sun Apr 19, 2015 4:57 am

REPLACEMENT DRAFT IS HERE
OOC: To the TL:DRers: I am aware there is a mountain of text here. There is a lot wrong with this resolution and I want to spend a lot of time justifying myself for this action as it is my first in this body. The very bottom of the post includes a "tl:dr" justification if reading a few paragraphs is too much, the proposals themselves are in box tags. Still, if you really don't think that these insurance policies have valid uses, I encourage you to read my thoughts.
Greetings to my fellow ambassadors to this great body! Allow me to introduce myself, I am Ambassador Rubio of the great nation Conservative Values.

I rise today to share my ideas for improving an old resolution long ago passed and possibly currently forgotten by this body called "Ban Profits on Workers Deaths." There are many problems with this resolution, mainly I am alarmed at the flagrant use of overly emotional language that in my opinion caused our great body to make an unrational decision on this matter. Who wouldn't be outraged with corporations profiting from death and creating dead peasant policies? Evil capitalists, that's who!

As you will see, there are valid reasons for a business to engage in this practice. In some cases, it is even practically necessary. It was ridiculously uninformed for this body to declare itself "determined to end [this practice] once and for all." That being said there ARE valid concerns to address, but the best way to address them is to make sure that any insurance policies are based on realistic possibilities of costs. A big corporation shouldn't be taking out life insurance policies on 2000 cashiers because the death of 4 or 5 out of 2000 represents no real cost to that corporation. On the other hand losing a partner, losing an artist or losing a major manager to an untimely death can represent significant costs, and as long as the insurance policy is for an amount meant to match these possible costs it is NOT an attempt to "profit from death" it is merely an attempt to manage cash flows to be able to have resources available to match unexpected costs.

The two fundamental problems are: 1) The resolution as it stands does not address situations when employees also have an equity interest in their employer. 2) "Profit" generally means proceeds less costs, but this resolution seems to count all proceeds as "profit" even if the proceeds were merely received to offset costs incurred by losing a key person.

The failure of this resolution was to only think about large corporate businesses when forming this policy, while failing to take into account that small businesses are a major part of post economies and the most sensitive to losing key people. These policies are especially important to special types of small businesses like law firms, public accounting firms, and other professional firms whose ownership is restricted to people with certain certifications. When a member of such a firm dies and he is unable to leave his interest in his business to his wife or heirs (because they cannot legally own part of the business as lay people) the business has an obligation to compensate the family for the deceased partner's interest that has vanished. There are also important legal reasons to have life insurance policies on owners in what is commonly referred to as an "S Corporation" when they have non-resident alien family members (these are a bit complicated, so I'll skip a lengthy explanation but simple enough to say that in that case it is all but legally required to have a policy). Beyond the legal reasons, it is often the case that businesses want to buy out partners when they die simply because adding the wife/husband/little brats into the business leadership could go terribly if they are not good businessmen/people. All of these concerns COULD have been easily prevented simply by exempting from the standing resolution employees that also have an equity interest in the company, but it was not done. (Likely, if I had to guess, because then the evil big corporation could give one share to every employee and avoid the resolution totally.)

The second major failing is to completely ignore the very real costs that can come from losing a key employee. If you have an (only one) artist employed - let's say a piercing expert, and you own a tattoo parlour - and that artist dies, your business (or at least one segment of it) comes to a halt. Appointments are not fulfilled and all cash flow from that segment stops until a replacement can be found. You can still do tattoos, but John Doe was the only employee in the business who was licensed to do piercings (maybe it was just you and your one employee John). That's a real problem. Key employees aren't limited to artists though, they could be anyone in management that has a big enough job it would be hard to replace them on short notice, and their replacement is going to have a hard time filling the shoes (as obviously the deceased will not be there to train his/her replacement). These are real costs. If an insurance policy can be shown to be taken to offset the possibility of these costs should they occur, that isn't an attempt to "profit" it is an attempt to manage cash flows to be sure to have the resources available to cover these unexpected costs.

As I said at the begining, there are valid reasons for a business to engage in this practice. In some cases, it is even practically necessary. There was a better way to deal with these issues than the ridiculously clumsy route this body took all that time ago, and we need to fix it.

Now, my fellow ambassadors, having said ALL OF THAT.. And I do apologize, really. I believe it is long past time to REPEAL this resolution and REPLACE it with a much more moderate and reasoned resolution on the issue. I dutifully submit for your consideration and feed-back the following drafts, first to repeal the existing law, second being my proposed replacement. Please keep in mind that we ambassadors are not allowed to amend anything, repeal and replace is the only method we have to change laws.

Repeal "Ban Profits on Workers' Deaths
A resolution to repeal previously passed legislation.
Category: Repeal | Resolution: GA#233 | Proposed by: Conservative Values

The World Assembly,

Agreeing that employees should be aware if life insurance policies are taken out on their life,

Recognizing one major failure of the resolution was to consider situations when employees have an ownership interest in their employer that needs to be "bought back" if the individual dies,

Further recognizing the resolution seeks to call any proceeds received at the time of an employees death as "profit,"

Knowing the real definition of "profit" in this situation would have been proceeds from the insurance policy less costs faced due to the death,

Observing when the real definition of "profit" is applied, if an insurance policy is created so that proceeds are meant to offset real costs that could be incurred upon the death of an employee the policy is NOT an attempt to "profit" but to "break even" by matching the proceeds to the estimated costs,

Noting other resolutions of this body address unsafe working conditions,

Believing this well meaning resolution reaches too far by requiring the employers to gift large sums of money to the family without the employee to pay in to the policy,

Seeking more a more reasonable resolution on the issue in the future,

Hereby repeals GA #233 Ban Profits on Workers Deaths.

REPLACEMENT DRAFT IS HERE

TL:DR:
  • There are valid reasons businesses might use these insurance policies - see my hypothetical examples above - the standing resolution fails to account for situations when an employee has an ownership interest in his or her employer and that a policy meant to match proceeds to actual costs does not result in a "profit." (If costs roughly equal proceeds, profit is roughly zero!)
  • There are better ways to reduce the hazard of differing interests than the 1/2 of proceeds rule; I lay them out in my replacement.
  • Resolution #233 was filled with needlessly sensational language that effected our judgement, there are legitimate concerns here we need to address, but it needs to do so in a more focused way.
Last edited by Conservative Values on Sat May 16, 2015 8:43 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Conservative Values
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Postby Conservative Values » Sun Apr 19, 2015 4:59 am

[RESERVED]

Also note, I'm really busy with end-of-semester stuff, please be patient with me. This is going to be one of those marathon as opposed to sprint type projects. :)

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Schutzenphalia and West Ruhntuhnkuhnland
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Postby Schutzenphalia and West Ruhntuhnkuhnland » Sun Apr 19, 2015 5:06 am

OOC: We obviously support the repeal given we previously drafted one of our own, and we think that you may be more successful given you've also offered a replacement.

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LOLAF
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Postby LOLAF » Sun Apr 19, 2015 5:29 am

The Community of LoLaf is greatly distressed that another nation actively seeks the legality of allowing corporations to profit off the death of their employees. Especially when the only given examples are very specific situations. A corporation has no more right to receive funding when losing an employee to death then they would if the employee simply departed. And regulations in place or not, anything that legally allows profit from death will encourage a lax in safety for workers.

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Postby Conservative Values » Sun Apr 19, 2015 5:36 am

Specific situations matter. If it is incredibly important for a business to have a policy in specific situations, it is unfair to ban that policy. Under my replacement, the benefits of a policy need to roughly match the costs incurred in losing the employee. In other words, no there would be no "profits".

And while it is true in some cases it is the same as the employee leaving, in most of these cases where the cost of losing an employee unexpectedly is relatively high, the employee is going to be under contract, giving the employer some recourse for losing the employee unexpectedly by the employees choice.

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LOLAF
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Postby LOLAF » Sun Apr 19, 2015 5:41 am

Contracts that limit the power of the worker are also unethical.

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Mallorea and Riva
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Postby Mallorea and Riva » Sun Apr 19, 2015 5:47 am

You're probably best off splitting the replacement out into a different thread and linking to it in the op.
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Postby Conservative Values » Sun Apr 19, 2015 5:51 am

I plan to at some point near putting the repeal to vote, but as of right now I felt I had a better (albeit still small) chance of convincing people I'm not interested in letting corporations pull of insurance fraud if I kept the better replacement in the same thread.

Unless that is you as a Red-Name telling me to split it off?
Last edited by Conservative Values on Sun Apr 19, 2015 5:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Bananaistan » Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:04 am

Full support. We have no idea why the WA took the time to ban key man insurance.
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Mallorea and Riva
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Postby Mallorea and Riva » Sun Apr 19, 2015 5:37 pm

Conservative Values wrote:I plan to at some point near putting the repeal to vote, but as of right now I felt I had a better (albeit still small) chance of convincing people I'm not interested in letting corporations pull of insurance fraud if I kept the better replacement in the same thread.

Unless that is you as a Red-Name telling me to split it off?

I'm not aware of it being a specific rule so for now just consider it some professional advice. If another mod wants to enforce it they can feel free.
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Alqania
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Postby Alqania » Mon Apr 20, 2015 12:42 pm

Conservative Values wrote:When a business takes out insurance on automobiles...


"The Queendom is shocked, outraged, appalled and disgusted by the comparison of workers to motor vehicles, and we wish our over-the-top objection to be noted in the most emotional and morally indignant language imaginable", requested Lord Raekevik. "We shall make no attempt to conceal our righteous contempt for the author of this thinly veiled death sentence for billions of workers throughout the member states of this august assembly, nor for the simple greed that seemingly serves as its sole motivation."

Conservative Values wrote:Recognizing that such policies can be a valid strategy to manage cash flows,


"While the author surely has taken the assembly's time, this seems to be the crux of the matter and the only actual, rational argument provided against the extant resolution (as the argument over language is not a very rational one to make). The Queendom remains adamantly unconvinced that to 'manage cash flows' - that is, in plain language, to make or hold on to money - is in any way justification for the deplorable practice here discussed. Thus, we understand the author's argument for repeal and we vehemently reject it."

"We would suggest that 'workers' who are also shareholders, who engage in corporate tax planning schemes or who retain personal accountants will probably find a way to 'manage their cash flows' even with the extant resolution on the books, whereas workers who find themselves in a more traditional relationship to their employers are the ones in actual need of statutory protection."
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Conservative Values
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Postby Conservative Values » Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:12 pm

Alqania wrote:
Conservative Values wrote:When a business takes out insurance on automobiles...


"The Queendom is shocked, outraged, appalled and disgusted by the comparison of workers to motor vehicles, and we wish our over-the-top objection to be noted in the most emotional and morally indignant language imaginable", requested Lord Raekevik. "We shall make no attempt to conceal our righteous contempt for the author of this thinly veiled death sentence for billions of workers throughout the member states of this august assembly, nor for the simple greed that seemingly serves as its sole motivation."
A rather silly mischaracterization of my statement as you well know. I was merely pointing out how flawed the language is, people are not comparable to property, but insurance protecting a business from bad things happening is comparable with insurance that protects bad things from happening. The LANGUAGE is flawed, the underlying concern is not - as I acknowledged - the hazard concern is valid. That's why we need to be sure there is a replacement that looks out for the 'little guy' while leaving options on the table for reasonable planning in the limited situations when it is appropriate.

Alqania wrote:"While the author surely has taken the assembly's time, this seems to be the crux of the matter and the only actual, rational argument provided against the extant resolution (as the argument over language is not a very rational one to make). The Queendom remains adamantly unconvinced that to 'manage cash flows' - that is, in plain language, to make or hold on to money - is in any way justification for the deplorable practice here discussed. Thus, we understand the author's argument for repeal and we vehemently reject it."

"We would suggest that 'workers' who are also shareholders, who engage in corporate tax planning schemes or who retain personal accountants will probably find a way to 'manage their cash flows' even with the extant resolution on the books, whereas workers who find themselves in a more traditional relationship to their employers are the ones in actual need of statutory protection."
You raise valid points - perhaps we should consider replacing the repealed with a resolution that FULLY protects the "traditional worker" (as you put it) while keeping the option on the table for employers in the special situations. That suggestion sounds vaguely familiar though - Where could I have heard it before? Oh yes, coming from my own mouth. Under my replacement proposal there would be no way to take out life insurance on the "traditional worker." Period. Arguments implying I support otherwise are ignorant and rude.

As to the "corporate shareholder" surely finding a way to circumvent this law through their armies of CPAs and lawyers: Doing so would obviously be illegal. This body has prevented any such plans for a business owner passing away. The family left behind when a small business owner dies is simply out of luck, holding an ownership interests in a business for which there is no market. There is no way I see around that, even with the best teams which of course most corporations cannot afford (because most corporations are tiny businesses). In order to do what you suggest, they would need to come up with something that is essentially life insurance on an employee that is not prevented by this resolution. I am not aware of how any such scheme could find its way around the existing provision - but if they exist then the whole resolution would be made a sham.

I have high hopes there are some out there that want to discuss what I am actually proposing, even if it is less fun than demonizing.

Ambassador Rubio of Conservative Values
Last edited by Conservative Values on Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Knootoss
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Postby Knootoss » Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:16 pm

I fought against the original resolution and I will fight it still. Full support for the repeal!

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Conservative Values
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Postby Conservative Values » Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:20 pm

I thank Ambassador Koopman. As a means of feeling out opinions and knowing what I'm up against: Would you support a replacement along the general lines of what I've laid out, or a replacement of any kind?
Ambassador Rubio of Conservative Values

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Knootoss
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Postby Knootoss » Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:24 pm

Let's repeal first and talk about a replacement... later.

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