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Do Disney Movies Really Empower Young Girls?

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Aviran
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Do Disney Movies Really Empower Young Girls?

Postby Aviran » Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:50 am

So I was speaking to a few individuals over Facebook (mistake No.1); when the conversation turned brutal on Disney. We got in an argument about whether or not the Disney movie "Mulan" was truly empowering to young girls. My friends said "of course, she saved China for Christ's sake."

This, was my response:

"I never quite got why a woman had to be some sort of overwhelming heroine simply to be recognized as noteworthy in male society. A woman should be able to be as much a Princess as Cinderella, or as much a goof-like Ariel, and still be regarded as kick-ass like Mulan. Women come in all shapes and sizes, determinations, wants, and goals, to say that a woman has to save a country, or change an entire region's weather patterns to unfreeze a small kingdom; simply to measure up to their male counterparts, is awful, and backwards. I honestly don't think Disney has made much progress at all in the area of equality for women. If anything, because it's only just now allowing their heroines the CAPABILITY of being amazing; however it insists that they have to work five times as hard-in comparison to their male counterparts-to do it."

My friends and I continued to argue back and forth, which has lead me to here. For I must know, NS; do Disney movies empower young girls, as my friends suggest? Or are they simply sublte suggestions of supposed female inferiority?

To offer a view farther into my reasoning; let's take a look at contemporary Disney movies;

"Beauty and the Beast": Belle, a bookworm seeking adventures, struggles in a provincial town until she meets the Beast. It is only when she meets him that her adventures begin, and really she is powerless throughout the movie, since she is his prisoner. Of course, all ends happily when he turns into a gorgeous Prince — Would she have stayed with him if he had remained the Beast? And could she have had adventures that did not include men?

"The Little Mermaid": Ariel is a beautiful mermaid who seeks adventures and explores the ocean against her protective father’s will. She is a collector of human objects because she wants to be human, but her true adventure doesn’t begin until she sees Eric. It is only when she sees him that she wants to truly be human. In the end, he saves her from the sea witch and despite her free spirit and adventurous soul, she settles down with a Prince just to live a domestic life as a Princess.

"The Princess and the Frog": Here we have our very first black Princess, who is not really a Princess; she is the complete opposite: poor and disadvantaged. Tiana works hard to save enough money so that she can buy and run her own restaurant — which was also her father’s dream. She is not looking for love, or a Prince to save her, but her adventure only begins when the frog — a lazy and good-for-nothing Prince comes along for a kiss that will make them both rich and royal. She works too hard and doesn’t have any fun — he is too lazy and has too much fun — and together they fall in love and balance one another out — but why is working too hard and being single-sighted and ambitious such a bad thing for Tiana? Is it because she’s a girl? If she were the Prince, there would be no story to tell — ambition and single-minded hunger for success are innate, supposedly.

"Tangled": Disney’s new and contemporary version of Rapunzel, she is feisty and beautiful, but she has lived in her tower all her life until fun-loving bandit Flyn Rider comes along. Again, her adventures don’t begin until a man finds refuge in her prison tower, and it is not until she falls in love with him that she endeavors to escape her prison walls, discover adventure and herself, and fulfill her dreams.



So, unlike the old-fashioned models of the soft-spoken, docile, and patient Princesses like Cinderella, Snow white, and Sleeping Beauty, today’s princesses are similarly beautiful — but they are also strong, intelligent, and confident. However, their adventures are dependent on the men that “save” them. Being independent and empowered is not enough in the minds of those who continue to make these movies and revamp old stories of young girls — Like Sleeping Beauty, they are all asleep, trapped within the confines of society’s norms and limited definitions for femininity and girlhood — They may be smart, educated, and capable of taking care of themselves, but they still need a man, a prince, to awaken them. Men bring them the adventures they desire to have for themselves in order to grow and develop into women, which is unachievable without the presence of a strong and fun-loving male – whether he is a Prince, a bandit, or a lazy leech. The Princess dares not become Queen without a King to guide her towards womanhood — and this is the subtle messages these Princesses and their Princes send to our little girls. Little girls who grow up to be women, women who are thus engrained, and must live with that inferiority complex-forever.

What do you think NS? Am I off the wall cynical, or is Disney as evilly nuanced as I allege?
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Postby Arumdaum » Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:07 am

In The Little Mermaid, Ariel literally transforms herself and stops talking, all for Eric.

I don't think "shut up and change yourself for men" is a very empowering message for females.
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:12 am

I'll just let Honest Movie Trailers speak for me.
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Postby Edgy Opinions » Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:14 am

No, selling children heteronormative romance as sole life ideals one could have is not cute. News at 27, fifth millennium standard time.
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Postby Risottia » Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:15 am

Aviran wrote:...They may be smart, educated, and capable of taking care of themselves, but they still need a man, a prince, to awaken them. Men bring them the adventures they desire to have for themselves in order to grow and develop into women, which is unachievable without the presence of a strong and fun-loving male – whether he is a Prince, a bandit, or a lazy leech. ...


I see your point and raise you Brave.

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Also, I think this could go in Arts & Fiction, couldn't it?
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Postby Consumer Regulated Donuts » Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:15 am

Cinderella at least implies inferiority. Cinderella teaches girls that you can have whatever you hope for, as long as you have perfect hair/makeup, are dainty, attractive, soft-spoken, socially acceptable, and blonde. Cinderella is seriously the only blonde character in the entire story/movie. I recall that there is a mouse scene where 1 of them says something along the lines of "leave the sewing to the women."

Nice fairly tales, but not empowering to the normal female at all.
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Postby Val Halla » Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:18 am

Young girls can get impowered? They need to? I don't get it...
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Postby TotallyNotEvilLand » Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:19 am

They sell Happy Meals, there's the bottom line.
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Postby Edgy Opinions » Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:22 am

Val Halla wrote:Young girls can get impowered? They need to? I don't get it...

Eh, have you ever noticed the increasingly younger ages where we see makeup use, platform shoes/sandals and use of bras?

By my mom's generation a 13-year-old using makeup would be a scandal.

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Postby Aviran » Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:26 am

I'm glad there's a consensus of agreement. I had so many of my friends take these movies for face value. Also, for the one who saw my point and raise me brave-that's ONE movie in almost 100 years of children's film making.

One exception does not the rule make.
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Postby Myrensis » Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:26 am

I'm pretty sure it's generally been just the opposite, and Disney has been criticized for the fact that the 'Princess' always needs a man to save her, or at the very it takes a man to finally make her stand up...with his help of course. Mulan, Tangled and Frozen are the most obvious departures from the trope.

As for the complaints about how the female needs to be 'kick ass' or whatever...well yes, it's a movie, you know, for entertainment? Cinderalla can be a fully empowered woman while being a delicate refined Princess yes....but not many people are going to pay to watch her try on dresses and pick out china for an hour and a half.

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Postby Aviran » Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:29 am

Edgy Opinions wrote:
Val Halla wrote:Young girls can get impowered? They need to? I don't get it...

Eh, have you ever noticed the increasingly younger ages where we see makeup use, platform shoes/sandals and use of bras?

By my mom's generation a 13-year-old using makeup would be a scandal.

https://newmatilda.com/2009/09/24/we-havent-come-long-way-baby


Well, I'm not saying those girls need to be bundled up and taught to be shrews. I'm simply saying that Disney needs to stop purporting that, no matter how unique you might be, there's only one sure fire way you'll ever get anywhere. And that's to be equal to men (which you will have to overcome enormous, superhuman odds, to do).
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Postby Aviran » Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:30 am

Myrensis wrote:I'm pretty sure it's generally been just the opposite, and Disney has been criticized for the fact that the 'Princess' always needs a man to save her, or at the very it takes a man to finally make her stand up...with his help of course. Mulan, Tangled and Frozen are the most obvious departures from the trope.

As for the complaints about how the female needs to be 'kick ass' or whatever...well yes, it's a movie, you know, for entertainment? Cinderalla can be a fully empowered woman while being a delicate refined Princess yes....but not many people are going to pay to watch her try on dresses and pick out china for an hour and a half.


And there in lies the problem. Society holds those it admires most to impossible standards. It's like a damn circus. "Let's see how many times you can almost die, but live, before we consider you mostly equal."
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Postby Aviran » Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:31 am

Myrensis wrote:I'm pretty sure it's generally been just the opposite, and Disney has been criticized for the fact that the 'Princess' always needs a man to save her, or at the very it takes a man to finally make her stand up...with his help of course. Mulan, Tangled and Frozen are the most obvious departures from the trope.

As for the complaints about how the female needs to be 'kick ass' or whatever...well yes, it's a movie, you know, for entertainment? Cinderalla can be a fully empowered woman while being a delicate refined Princess yes....but not many people are going to pay to watch her try on dresses and pick out china for an hour and a half.


Also, I'd argue that Tangled, Mulan, and Frozen do not depart from the trope at all, but subtly work through it.
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Postby Saiwania » Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:34 am

Disney does not need to empower anyone, they will produce whatever media which makes a profit.
Last edited by Saiwania on Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Dakini » Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:36 am

Risottia wrote:
Aviran wrote:...They may be smart, educated, and capable of taking care of themselves, but they still need a man, a prince, to awaken them. Men bring them the adventures they desire to have for themselves in order to grow and develop into women, which is unachievable without the presence of a strong and fun-loving male – whether he is a Prince, a bandit, or a lazy leech. ...


I see your point and raise you Brave.

Image

Also, I think this could go in Arts & Fiction, couldn't it?

There's also Frozen, in which the two sisters save each other.

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Postby Aviran » Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:37 am

Arumdaum wrote:In The Little Mermaid, Ariel literally transforms herself and stops talking, all for Eric.

I don't think "shut up and change yourself for men" is a very empowering message for females.


I'd also like to point out the "subtle" lyrics in my most favorite song from that movie.

Ursula's villain song; "Poor Unfortunate Souls"

When Ursula is getting down the baubles to help her make Ariel's potion, she sings this;

"You'll have your looks, your pretty face. And DON'T underestimate the importance of BODY LANGUAGE. HA! The men up there don't like alot of blabber. They think a girl who gossips is a bore. Yes on land it's much preferred for ladies not to say a word; and after all dear what is idle chatter for?"

She later finishes by saying;

"Yes it she who holds her tongue that gets her man..."

Shut up, look pretty, and there may be hope for you. YAY DISNEY!
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Postby Aviran » Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:40 am

Dakini wrote:
Risottia wrote:
I see your point and raise you Brave.

Image

Also, I think this could go in Arts & Fiction, couldn't it?

There's also Frozen, in which the two sisters save each other.


Again, "Brave" is ONE movie in almost a century of film making. Frozen, is sort of kind of okay in the message department.
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Postby Dakini » Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:42 am

Aviran wrote:
Dakini wrote:There's also Frozen, in which the two sisters save each other.


Again, "Brave" is ONE movie in almost a century of film making. Frozen, is sort of kind of okay in the message department.

How is it "sort of okay"? The younger sister thought that she needed a man to save her, but instead, she saved herself and her sister.

And so what? Disney is at least making some progress here. I'm not going to argue that they have been generally good at this (because they haven't), but you can't change the past. You can change the future and it seems like they're at least moving in a good direction.

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Postby Aviran » Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:43 am

Saiwania wrote:Disney does not need to empower anyone, they will produce whatever media which makes a profit.


I disagree, if you're aiming your films at children, are seen as an uplifter and molder of children across the globe, and otherwise are responsible for the message that children get out of the one receptacle almost every human being has; the T.V, then I'd have to say you have a de facto obligation to produce material that does not cause an entire gender of your audience to experience the very real possibility of having a thought process that makes that gender feel inferior to another.
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Postby Aviran » Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:47 am

Dakini wrote:
Aviran wrote:
Again, "Brave" is ONE movie in almost a century of film making. Frozen, is sort of kind of okay in the message department.

How is it "sort of okay"? The younger sister thought that she needed a man to save her, but instead, she saved herself and her sister.

And so what? Disney is at least making some progress here. I'm not going to argue that they have been generally good at this (because they haven't), but you can't change the past. You can change the future and it seems like they're at least moving in a good direction.


I'm not giving them a medal and a cookie for finally catching up with what the rest of us have been trying to make reality for 40 years. They're EDGING, ever so slowly, to where they SHOULD be.

They don't get special recognition for that. Did I get a pat on the back for getting good grades? No. Why? Because it's what was expected of me. You don't get accommodations for that.
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Postby Dakini » Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:52 am

Aviran wrote:
Dakini wrote:How is it "sort of okay"? The younger sister thought that she needed a man to save her, but instead, she saved herself and her sister.

And so what? Disney is at least making some progress here. I'm not going to argue that they have been generally good at this (because they haven't), but you can't change the past. You can change the future and it seems like they're at least moving in a good direction.


I'm not giving them a medal and a cookie for finally catching up with what the rest of us have been trying to make reality for 40 years. They're EDGING, ever so slowly, to where they SHOULD be.

They don't get special recognition for that. Did I get a pat on the back for getting good grades? No. Why? Because it's what was expected of me. You don't get accommodations for that.

I never said that they should get special recognition. I just said that they're getting better and that this is nice.

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Postby Oceans Haven » Fri Mar 20, 2015 2:01 am

Aviran wrote:
Saiwania wrote:Disney does not need to empower anyone, they will produce whatever media which makes a profit.


I disagree, if you're aiming your films at children, are seen as an uplifter and molder of children across the globe, and otherwise are responsible for the message that children get out of the one receptacle almost every human being has; the T.V, then I'd have to say you have a de facto obligation to produce material that does not cause an entire gender of your audience to experience the very real possibility of having a thought process that makes that gender feel inferior to another.


...HAHAHAHAHA!!!

seriously tho disney has essentially turned into a money fueled black hole using nostalgia, music, and animation to attract unsuspecting children. I will always love things like toy story but its hard to keep a massive billion dollar corporation from following the money.

as for the op i think its both. I kind of liked Mulan. A woman (true she was being put down at first but) managed to prove she was as good as the men and worked hard to meet her own goals. The "prince" or whatever mostly had a minor role. In other movies tho i see how they downplay women (notably in their older movies). Snow white needed prince charming to wake up, cinderella had to be rescued, yada yada...so id say 50/50 or maybe 40/60 leaning towards movies downplaying women.

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Postby Calimera II » Fri Mar 20, 2015 2:04 am

Edgy Opinions wrote:No, selling children heteronormative romance as sole life ideals one could have is not cute. News at 27, fifth millennium standard time.


I think it's better than 'selling' children super-gay homosexual stuff.

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Postby Aviran » Fri Mar 20, 2015 2:10 am

Calimera II wrote:
Edgy Opinions wrote:No, selling children heteronormative romance as sole life ideals one could have is not cute. News at 27, fifth millennium standard time.


I think it's better than 'selling' children super-gay homosexual stuff.


Well, there's nothing wrong with being gay, but that's neither here nor there, and not a road we're going to go down in this thread.
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