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Finno-Ugrics a threat to Russia, says Leningrad governor

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Ayreonia
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Finno-Ugrics a threat to Russia, says Leningrad governor

Postby Ayreonia » Thu Mar 05, 2015 5:37 am

Well, not all of them as of present rhetoric, but I'm sure we'll get there eventually.

Sauce wrote:Leningrad Governor Aleksandr Drozdenko says the Izhors, a Finno-Ugric group numbering 26,000, and the supporters of a largely Internet-based project calling for the establishment of an autonomous republic uniting Finno-Ugric and Slavic groups in the northwestern part of the Russian Federation, as threats to the territorial integrity of the country.

On the one hand, Drozdenko’s attack may be nothing more than his following the current Russian nationalist trend of the Moscow media and a way of shoring up his support not only among the ethnic Russian majority in his region but among the ethnic Russians who dominate policy making in the Kremlin.

But on the other hand, it could have a far more sinister meaning either as a signal to Estonia and Finland to end their support for Finno-Ugric groups inside the Russian Federation or even as a preparation for possible aggression of one kind or another against Estonia, its NATO membership notwithstanding.

Speaking to the Council on Inter-Ethnic Relations yesterday, the oblast governor said* that the time had come to focus attention on what he called “extremist organizations working on the territory of the region.”

“We have small groups of citizens who, even though they are not residents of Leningrad oblast, are trying to influence the minds, opinions and actions of residents,” Drozdenko said. And he singled out two Finno-Ugric ones, the Ingria group and the Shoikula organization, which is based in Vistino and Ust-Luga in the Kingisepp region.

According to the governor, these groups are engaged in activities which undermine the interests of the Russian state by casting doubt on its unity and calling for the formation of a separate Ingria state, an assertion which is quite at odds with those on the website of the group, a site that appears to have been taken down yesterday as well.

Drozdenko said that “we must speak about this lest the situation of 2004 be repeated when the first growths of fascism and chauvinism appeared in Ukraine.” He added that he viewed even that situation calmly now because “the multi-national people of Ukraine” will be able to deal with it and “everything will be in order.”

The governor has clashed with the Shoikula group representing the Izhors before because that small ethnic community has protested both within the Russian Federation and to neighboring Estonia about the threat to their survival that the untrammeled development of the Ust-Luga port poses.


http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/03/04/l ... integrity/

Yeah. Another round of Russian bellicosity. The good governor is either misinformed or just doesn't care that the group in question is not seeking a state of their own, and claims that a tiny ethnic group of 26 thousand is a serious threat to Russian territorial integrity. Not even national, but territorial. Also, seeking autonomy from a state with a different ethnic majority than yours is now extremism. Who would have thought?

Strange how Russia gleefully went ahead and "helped" with the Crimean situation, happily trampling on another nation's integrity, but when a much, much smaller group makes a website about wishing to achieve autonomy within their country, top Russian officials start crying "extremism" and "fascism."

Speaking out against this will of course be labeled Russophobia, but do you have anything else to say, NSG?
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Postby Dooom35796821595 » Thu Mar 05, 2015 5:50 am

Need more reliable source before commenting. It's not on the BBC russia page last I looked.
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Postby Jetan » Thu Mar 05, 2015 5:51 am

Dooom35796821595 wrote:Need more reliable source before commenting. It's not on the BBC russia page last I looked.

It was in finnish media aswell (altough, in finnish), I've read about this too.

Edit: Here's one finnish article, if it helps any. http://www.verkkouutiset.fi/ulkomaat/inkeroiset%20ukraina-32843
That article gives a russian site as the source.
Last edited by Jetan on Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:01 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Risottia » Thu Mar 05, 2015 5:54 am

Ayreonia wrote:... a largely Internet-based project calling for the establishment of an autonomous republic...
But on the other hand, it could have a far more sinister meaning either as a signal to Estonia and Finland to end their support for Finno-Ugric groups inside the Russian Federation ...


Wait wait wait.
So the clearly non-Russophile "euromaidanpress.com" states that Estonia and Finland are supporting autonomist groups inside the Russian Federation?

So, if Russia supports autonomist groups inside the Republic of Ukraine, that's evil and an aggression. If Finland and Estonia support autonomist groups inside the Russian Federation, the Ruskies are evil for calling that a threat.

Uhm.
.

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Jetan
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Postby Jetan » Thu Mar 05, 2015 5:59 am

Risottia wrote:
Ayreonia wrote:... a largely Internet-based project calling for the establishment of an autonomous republic...
But on the other hand, it could have a far more sinister meaning either as a signal to Estonia and Finland to end their support for Finno-Ugric groups inside the Russian Federation ...


Wait wait wait.
So the clearly non-Russophile "euromaidanpress.com" states that Estonia and Finland are supporting autonomist groups inside the Russian Federation?

So, if Russia supports autonomist groups inside the Republic of Ukraine, that's evil and an aggression. If Finland and Estonia support autonomist groups inside the Russian Federation, the Ruskies are evil for calling that a threat.

Uhm.

1) Euromaidan press is not the only source. 2) Finland and Estonia do not support this particular group in their call to autonomy, but finnic kindred peoples on language and culture related fields. 3)Calling what Russia is doing in Ukraine "Russia supports autonomist groups inside the Republic of Ukraine" is a big fat lie.
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Postby Hanchu » Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:02 am

Risottia wrote:
Ayreonia wrote:... a largely Internet-based project calling for the establishment of an autonomous republic...
But on the other hand, it could have a far more sinister meaning either as a signal to Estonia and Finland to end their support for Finno-Ugric groups inside the Russian Federation ...


Wait wait wait.
So the clearly non-Russophile "euromaidanpress.com" states that Estonia and Finland are supporting autonomist groups inside the Russian Federation?

So, if Russia supports autonomist groups inside the Republic of Ukraine, that's evil and an aggression. If Finland and Estonia support autonomist groups inside the Russian Federation, the Ruskies are evil for calling that a threat.

Uhm.

Russia invaded and annexed part of the Ukraine

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Postby Edgy Opinions » Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:04 am

Jetan wrote:1) Euromaidan press is not the only source. 2) Finland and Estonia do not support this particular group in their call to autonomy, but finnic kindred peoples on language and culture related fields. 3)Calling what Russia is doing in Ukraine "Russia supports autonomist groups inside the Republic of Ukraine" is a big fat lie.

A rare moment when I agree with Jetan on something Russia-related.
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Postby Risottia » Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:10 am

Hanchu wrote:
Risottia wrote:
Wait wait wait.
So the clearly non-Russophile "euromaidanpress.com" states that Estonia and Finland are supporting autonomist groups inside the Russian Federation?

So, if Russia supports autonomist groups inside the Republic of Ukraine, that's evil and an aggression. If Finland and Estonia support autonomist groups inside the Russian Federation, the Ruskies are evil for calling that a threat.

Uhm.

Russia invaded and annexed part of the Ukraine


Russia was called evil and aggressive by the Euromaidan supporters way BEFORE annexing Crimea - and the reason was supporting Crimean and Donbass autonomist groups.

Trying to cover double standards with selective memory? Won't work.
.

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Postby Risottia » Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:13 am

Jetan wrote:
Risottia wrote:
Wait wait wait.
So the clearly non-Russophile "euromaidanpress.com" states that Estonia and Finland are supporting autonomist groups inside the Russian Federation?

So, if Russia supports autonomist groups inside the Republic of Ukraine, that's evil and an aggression. If Finland and Estonia support autonomist groups inside the Russian Federation, the Ruskies are evil for calling that a threat.

Uhm.

1) Euromaidan press is not the only source.

So, MORE sources support what Euromaidan.com reports: that is, Estonia and Finland support autonomist groups within the territory of the Russian Federation.

2) Finland and Estonia do not support this particular group in their call to autonomy, but finnic kindred peoples on language and culture related fields.

And then, all of a sudden, backpedaling!

3)Calling what Russia is doing in Ukraine "Russia supports autonomist groups inside the Republic of Ukraine" is a big fat lie.

No, it's not.
It's exactly what happened after the Maidan revolt and before Russia annexed Crimea.


Dude, is there actually anything to discuss except shaky and contradictory claims, and double standards?
.

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Postby Edgy Opinions » Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:16 am

Risottia wrote:Dude, is there actually anything to discuss except shaky and contradictory claims, and double standards?

I don't think Jetan got double standards. :unsure:

I support Russia's actions, and would support Finland and Estonia if they were doing this (if it could be proven), culture and identity erasure of certain peoples is not cool and a State entity to enforce Russian nationalism is inherently harmful in this regard, but so far as evidence goes, I don't believe this to be the case and I think he doesn't believe so, either.
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Postby Jetan » Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:53 am

Risottia wrote:
Jetan wrote:1) Euromaidan press is not the only source.

So, MORE sources support what Euromaidan.com reports: that is, Estonia and Finland support autonomist groups within the territory of the Russian Federation.?
You appear to be entirely literate, so why not read that again? There is no mention whatsoever about Finnish and Estonian support for autonomist groups in Russia. "a signal to Estonia and Finland to end their support for Finno-Ugric groups inside the Russian Federation " refers to the culture and language related support I mentioned.

Risottia wrote:
Jetan wrote:2) Finland and Estonia do not support this particular group in their call to autonomy, but finnic kindred peoples on language and culture related fields.

And then, all of a sudden, backpedaling!

And then, all of sudden, misinterpretation and jumping to conclusions! See above.

Risottia wrote:
Jetan wrote:3)Calling what Russia is doing in Ukraine "Russia supports autonomist groups inside the Republic of Ukraine" is a big fat lie.

No, it's not.
It's exactly what happened after the Maidan revolt and before Russia annexed Crimea.

For that whole lenghty, lenghty period between 21st of February and 16th of March? Nonsense.

Risottia wrote:
Jetan wrote:Dude, is there actually anything to discuss except shaky and contradictory claims, and double standards?

You tell me, afterall, you're the one who started them.
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Postby Baltenstein » Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:15 am

Separatism and local autonomy are great. As long as they happen outside Russia.
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Postby Baltenstein » Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:17 am

Edgy Opinions wrote:
Risottia wrote:Dude, is there actually anything to discuss except shaky and contradictory claims, and double standards?

I don't think Jetan got double standards. :unsure:

I support Russia's actions, and would support Finland and Estonia if they were doing this (if it could be proven), culture and identity erasure of certain peoples is not cool


Rejoice for the Crimean Tatars then. Russia's history on preserving their cultural identity is somewhat, um, controversial.
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Postby Quintium » Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:29 am

The Russians have been going full McIntosh for a few years now. I suppose it has a lot to do with the Russian economy being caught between stagnation and decline again, and the powers that be trying to hold on to the power that they gained when times were better. In order to keep power and not be replaced, they need to (1) keep a strong hold on power inside Russia and (2) find lots of 'foreign' foes so that their people will continue to rally behind them.

Putin and his pals are opportunists. That is the most important thing you need to know about them. They'll jump on everything that they think will give them some space to maneuver in a political and economic sense.
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Postby Edgy Opinions » Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:31 am

Baltenstein wrote:Rejoice for the Crimean Tatars then. Russia's history on preserving their cultural identity is somewhat, um, controversial.

What makes you think I support them out of Russophilia?
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Postby Conserative Morality » Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:33 am

Leningrad Governor Aleksandr Drozdenko says the Izhors, a Finno-Ugric group numbering 26,000, and the supporters of a largely Internet-based project calling for the establishment of an autonomous republic uniting Finno-Ugric and Slavic groups in the northwestern part of the Russian Federation, as threats to the territorial integrity of the country.

I'm not good with these things - is that hypocrisy or irony? Combined with a bit of fear-mongering, naturally. I mean, I suppose I could be wrong and the Izhors are just waiting to start a Donbass or Crimea situation but, er... it doesn't really seem like it.
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Postby Teemant » Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:34 am

Seriously... How can Finno-Ugric groups be threat to Russia? This makes no sense at all. As an Estonian I will always support Finno-Ugric peoples.
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Postby New Tsavon » Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:35 am

Is Russia still mad about the Winter War?
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Postby European Socialist Republic » Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:37 am

I smell an opportunity! Have "polite men in green" (who are definately not Finnish soldiers!) seize the Oblast's parliamentary buildings, military bases and the Baltic Fleet then have them declare independence! If Russia tries to retake it, Leningrad will just become a popular destination for American and European vacationers.

Oh, and anyone who opposes this move is obviously a Finnophobe.
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Postby Edgy Opinions » Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:38 am

New Tsavon wrote:Is Russia still mad about the Winter War?

Finland has world's best education system, manages to be an important power at solely 5 million people, recently legalized same-sex marriage, and does all this DRINKING MORE VODKA THAN THEM.

If Hetalia was supposed to be any accurate, Tino Hellamazing would be the protagonist. *nods*
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Postby Baltenstein » Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:40 am

European Socialist Republic wrote:I smell an opportunity! Have "polite men in green" (who are definately not Finnish soldiers!) seize the Oblast's parliamentary buildings, military bases and the Baltic Fleet then have them declare independence! If Russia tries to retake it, Leningrad will just become a popular destination for American and European vacationers.

Oh, and anyone who opposes this move is obviously a Finnophobe.


Finnophobia doesn't exist. Only Russophobia does.
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Postby Edgy Opinions » Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:40 am

European Socialist Republic wrote:I smell an opportunity! Have "polite men in green" (who are definately not Finnish soldiers!) seize the Oblast's parliamentary buildings, military bases and the Baltic Fleet then have them declare independence! If Russia tries to retake it, Leningrad will just become a popular destination for American and European vacationers.

Oh, and anyone who opposes this move is obviously a Finnophobe.

I think it'd be quite hard for a country of 5 million, or potentially this country and another of 2-3 million... annexing a major metropolis that is Russia's second city... without having major constraints to such move.
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Postby Bojikami » Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:40 am

Risottia wrote:
Ayreonia wrote:... a largely Internet-based project calling for the establishment of an autonomous republic...
But on the other hand, it could have a far more sinister meaning either as a signal to Estonia and Finland to end their support for Finno-Ugric groups inside the Russian Federation ...


Wait wait wait.
So the clearly non-Russophile "euromaidanpress.com" states that Estonia and Finland are supporting autonomist groups inside the Russian Federation?

So, if Russia supports autonomist groups inside the Republic of Ukraine, that's evil and an aggression. If Finland and Estonia support autonomist groups inside the Russian Federation, the Ruskies are evil for calling that a threat.

Uhm.

Pretty much this.
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Postby European Socialist Republic » Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:42 am

Edgy Opinions wrote:
European Socialist Republic wrote:I smell an opportunity! Have "polite men in green" (who are definately not Finnish soldiers!) seize the Oblast's parliamentary buildings, military bases and the Baltic Fleet then have them declare independence! If Russia tries to retake it, Leningrad will just become a popular destination for American and European vacationers.

Oh, and anyone who opposes this move is obviously a Finnophobe.

I think it'd be quite hard for a country of 5 million, or potentially this country and another of 2-3 million... annexing a major metropolis that is Russia's second city... without having major constraints to such move.

NATO troops then. I mean, local self-defence militias who just happen to wear NATO uniforms! They obviously bought them on the internet.
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Postby New Tsavon » Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:43 am

European Socialist Republic wrote:
Edgy Opinions wrote:I think it'd be quite hard for a country of 5 million, or potentially this country and another of 2-3 million... annexing a major metropolis that is Russia's second city... without having major constraints to such move.

NATO troops then. I mean, local self-defence militias who just happen to wear NATO uniforms! They obviously bought them on the internet.

>implying NATO has only one uniform

Stay mad, slavaboo.
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