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Obama vetoes Keystone XL Pipeline

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Atlanticatia
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Obama vetoes Keystone XL Pipeline

Postby Atlanticatia » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:29 pm

President Obama vetoed a bill authorizing the controversial Keystone XL pipeline Tuesday, carrying out a threat to reject one of the first measures the Republican-led Congress sent to the president's desk.

"Because this act of Congress conflicts with established executive branch procedures and cuts short thorough consideration of issues that could bear on our national interest -- including our security, safety, and environment -- it has earned my veto," Obama wrote in a message to the Senate.

White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest said earlier Tuesday that Obama planned to veto the bill because the State Department is still conducting a review of whether the massive pipeline — which would transport roughly 800,000 barrels of heavy crude from Hardisty, Alberta, to refineries in Port Arthur, Tex. — would serve the national interest.

President Obama vetoed a bill authorizing the controversial Keystone XL pipeline, carrying out a threat to reject one of the first measures the Republican-led Congress sent to the president’s desk. (Reuters)
"Through this bill, the United States Congress attempts to circumvent longstanding and proven processes for determining whether or not building and operating a cross-border pipeline serves the national interest," Obama wrote.

Congressional Republicans sent a bill authorizing the pipeline to the president's desk Tuesday. It is the third veto Obama has issued, and Earnest said earlier Tuesday it would be done "without any fanfare or delay."

He did not rule out Obama eventually approving the pipeline.

"It certainly is possible," Earnest said. "The president will keep an open mind as the State Department considers the wide range of impacts that this pipeline could have on the country, both positive and negative."

Two-thirds of each chamber would need to vote to override Obama's veto — something that seems unlikely, given the votes that passed the bill.

Reaction from both supporters and detractors was swift. Supporters of the pipeline argue that it would create construction jobs and increase the a supply of reliable energy, lowering oil prices and bolstering the economy. Those opposed to the project say that it would accelerate climate change by speeding the energy-intense extraction of bitumen in Alberta, could pollute waterways along the project's route and would do little to help the U.S. economy. Environmentalists have said approving or rejecting the pipeline is akin to a vote on climate change.


“The president’s veto of the Keystone jobs bill is a national embarrassment," House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) said in a statement. "It’s embarrassing when Russia and China are plowing ahead on two massive pipelines and we can’t get this one no-brainer of a project off the ground. The president is just too close to environmental extremists to stand up for America’s workers."

Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus said the veto shows that Obama is "out of step" with Americans who support the project.

“The least President Obama can do is look the American people in the eye when he is so blatantly defying them," he said in a statement.

Sierra Club Executive Director Michael Brune said that Obama "kept his word" and rejected the bill.

"That’s what he said he’d do from the start, but Republicans in Congress continued to waste everyone’s time with a bill destined to go nowhere, just to satisfy the agenda of their big oil allies," Brune said in a statement. “President Obama has also made it clear he will reject the tar sands pipeline if it contributes significantly to the climate crisis. The president has all the evidence he needs to reject Keystone XL now, and we are confident that he will."

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) also praised Obama for vetoing the measure.

"This veto tells the world that our nation takes seriously the planetary crisis of global warming and that we will not support legislation that would let a Canadian oil company ship some of the dirtiest oil on the planet across the United States," Sanders said in a statement.

But not all Democrats agreed. Sen. Heidi Heitkamp (N.D.), a longtime supporter of the pipeline, said in a statement that "watching a bill that inched toward this consensus over six years to bring our country closer to an energy independent future is downright disappointing."

TransCanada, the project's sponsor, said in a statement the company "remains fully committed to Keystone XL despite today’s veto of bipartisan legislation in support of the project.... Without Keystone XL, U.S. refineries are forced to use other methods of transportation to get the oil they need for creating products we all rely on every day."

Regardless of the project's fate, the veto highlighted the ongoing tensions between the White House and congressional Republicans.

“There are areas where we will disagree with what Congress is doing, but we don’t think that should preclude us from working on areas where there is common ground,” Schultz said in a phone interview, adding Republicans have the option of picking fights or working together. “It can largely be up to Congress for what they choose to be doing.”

Boehner spokesman Cory Fritz said in an e-mail that Obama bore the blame for Washington's inaction.

“If the president’s going to veto popular jobs bills, like Keystone XL, and refuse to lend a hand to stop his party’s filibusters in the Senate, it will be tougher to forge agreements on any number of issues, including our shared priorities," Fritz wrote. "There’s no doubt about it.”

The House passed a bill authorizing construction of the pipeline earlier this month by a vote of 270-152, mostly along party lines. The Senate passed the measure 62 to 36 in January. The bill was one of the first introduced as the Republican-controlled Congress was being sworn in last month. In November, Senate Democrats narrowly blocked passage of a bill authorizing construction of the pipeline.

Last month, the Nebraska Supreme Court ruled that construction of the pipeline could go forward after a group of landowners opposed to the project sued to block it from being built. Obama had cited the court case as a reason to delay a final decision on the project. The company looking to construct the pipeline, TransCanada, soon after filed paperwork to use eminent domain to acquire land for the project; a Nebraska court issued a temporary injunction earlier this month barring the company from using eminent domain.

At a news conference in December, Obama downplayed the potential benefits of the pipeline.

"I think that there’s been this tendency to really hype this thing as some magic formula to what ails the U.S. economy," Obama said.

Obama rejected an application from TransCanada to build the pipeline in 2012 and The Post reported in November that Obama will likely deny the company's final permit for the project.

The $7.6 billion project would stretch nearly 1,700 miles.



Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/pos ... ents-desk/

My opinion wrote:So, I'm quite pleased with this. Obama has vetoed the controversial Keystone XL pipeline, which many progressives will be happy with. I'm proud of Obama for vetoing this and not giving in to climate deniers. The extraction of tar sands oil is extremely bad for the environment and results in much higher emissions than normal practices. We must do all we can do discourage this, as extracting the Canadian tar sands oil would make it very hard to meet the international target of preventing temperatures from rising less than 2 degrees. Most of it has to stay in the ground to meet that target. Not to mention, there are concerns around the pipeline itself, and the direct environmental effects on the area surrounding it. While the pipeline would have been economically beneficial -- however, mostly to Canada -- we need to put our environment first. Now, if only we were putting a price on carbon...


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Last edited by Atlanticatia on Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby Ashmoria » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:33 pm

yeah im wondering if the republicans really want keystone or if they have totally forgotten how politics works. they could probably get it signed if they included it in an infrastructure bill.
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Postby Geilinor » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:33 pm

This isn't really a partisan issue nor should it be. That's been my biggest issue with both parties here.
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Postby Chuman-kah » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:36 pm

What is the big deal about this pipeline compared to the hundreds of other pipelines in this country?

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Postby European Socialist Republic » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:37 pm

Caliph Obama is acting like a tyrant again!

Anyway, what Republicans should redo is rename the Keystone XL Pipeline into the Freedom Juice Pipeline. That way they can accuse those who're against it of being anti-freedom.
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Postby Atlanticatia » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:38 pm

Chuman-kah wrote:What is the big deal about this pipeline compared to the hundreds of other pipelines in this country?


There are problems with the pipeline itself but the biggest thing is that we need to discourage extraction of Canadian tar sands oil. It poses a huge risk to climate change targets and we shouldn't be sacrificing our future generations' environment for a short term economic gain - which the US will barely receive, anyway.
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Postby Russels Orbiting Teapot » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:40 pm

Chuman-kah wrote:What is the big deal about this pipeline compared to the hundreds of other pipelines in this country?


It goes to tar sands, which are ecologically destructive and expensive to extract oil from.

If we get to the point where we start tapping into tar sands for oil rather than developing alternate energy sources to surpass the utility of it, we basically may as well just kiss our ecology goodbye and start building hermetically sealed domes around our cities.

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Postby Dragomerian Islands » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:41 pm

I would like to tell you about the politics involved:

OBAMA:
Obama was given campaign donations by the railway that currently ships oil from Canada to the Gulf of Mexico

Republicans:
The Republicans were funded by the company(s) that want the keystone pipeline, so that they may make money off of it.
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Postby Myrensis » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:42 pm

Ashmoria wrote:yeah im wondering if the republicans really want keystone or if they have totally forgotten how politics works. they could probably get it signed if they included it in an infrastructure bill.


Therein lies the problem. The Keystone pipeline will not contribute to US 'energy independence'. It will, once completed in under 2 years, only create about 35 permanent jobs for people checking sensors and doing routine maintenance. Canada wants the pipeline because they need a way to get expensive and messy tar sand oil to port for shipping to overseas markets.

Basically compromise, or any significant Democrat supported infrastructure bill is highly unlikely because the fact that Obama opposes it is the only reason Republicans are so obsessed with Keystone. Their only goals in this are either A. Obama maintains his veto, thus letting them wail about what a meanie he is, or B. He signs it alone and no strings attached so they can declare victory.
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Postby New Rhodinia » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:43 pm

Atlanticatia wrote:
Chuman-kah wrote:What is the big deal about this pipeline compared to the hundreds of other pipelines in this country?


There are problems with the pipeline itself but the biggest thing is that we need to discourage extraction of Canadian tar sands oil. It poses a huge risk to climate change targets and we shouldn't be sacrificing our future generations' environment for a short term economic gain - which the US will barely receive, anyway.


Not to mention that that very same economic boost will probably be mishandled and dumped primarily into our overtly-bloated military budget.
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Postby Nebalon » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:45 pm

I think Obama is acting like a communist/socialist which is dangerous, as he's warping the free market to pursue these personal issues. He should allow the pipeline. If it succeeds, it's good, it's helping the country. If not, than it was bad, and should fail. But Obama shouldn't decide for it.
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Postby Atlanticatia » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:45 pm

TransCanada may be able to sue the US Government under NAFTA, forcing the American taxpayer to pay for their 'lost profits'. Fuck NAFTA and investor-state disputes.
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Postby Occupied Deutschland » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:50 pm

I've said this repeatedly, but apparently it bears mention again:
THE OIL IS GOING TO GET PUMPED ANYWAYS FROM BOTH THE TAR SANDS AND THE BAKKEN SHALE REGION. THERE IS A SLIGHT SLOWDOWN CURRENTLY DUE TO THE SAUDI/OPEC DUMPING IN THE OIL MARKET, BUT IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN ANYWAYS AND STOPPING THE FUCKING CONSTRUCTION OF A SAFER AND LESS ENVIRONMENTALLY DAMAGING MODE OF TRANSPORTATION IS THE MOST HOLLOW, BASELESS, AND ANTI-ENVIRONMENTAL BULLSHIT ANY SELF-DESCRIBED PERSON WHO CARES ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT COULD 'ACCOMPLISH'.

Really need to come up with a new name for these types of folks, because they aren't 'extreme environmentalists'. Extreme environmentalists would perhaps actually try to minimize the damage to the environment an activity produces rather than CONSCIOUSLY KEEPING IT HIGH.
'Fucking hypocrites', is my personal proposal.
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Postby The Nihilistic view » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:51 pm

Atlanticatia wrote:TransCanada may be able to sue the US Government under NAFTA, forcing the American taxpayer to pay for their 'lost profits'. Fuck NAFTA and investor-state disputes.


And the EU are going to include that in the trade deal with the US. Fucking idiots.
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Postby Neutraligon » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:52 pm

Nebalon wrote:I think Obama is acting like a communist/socialist which is dangerous, as he's warping the free market to pursue these personal issues. He should allow the pipeline. If it succeeds, it's good, it's helping the country. If not, than it was bad, and should fail. But Obama shouldn't decide for it.


First please do not misuse the term socialist or communist. Second the free market is not free nor should it be, and this is not a personal issue. It will not help the country, and in fact may endanger it. Do you seriously think those pipes are safe or are checked to ensure that they stay safe and will not spill?
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Postby Geilinor » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:52 pm

Atlanticatia wrote:
Chuman-kah wrote:What is the big deal about this pipeline compared to the hundreds of other pipelines in this country?


There are problems with the pipeline itself but the biggest thing is that we need to discourage extraction of Canadian tar sands oil. It poses a huge risk to climate change targets and we shouldn't be sacrificing our future generations' environment for a short term economic gain - which the US will barely receive, anyway.

If there's no pipeline, it can be shipped over rail.
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Postby Neutraligon » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:53 pm

Occupied Deutschland wrote:I've said this repeatedly, but apparently it bears mention again:
THE OIL IS GOING TO GET PUMPED ANYWAYS FROM BOTH THE TAR SANDS AND THE BAKKEN SHALE REGION. THERE IS A SLIGHT SLOWDOWN CURRENTLY DUE TO THE SAUDI/OPEC DUMPING IN THE OIL MARKET, BUT IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN ANYWAYS AND STOPPING THE FUCKING CONSTRUCTION OF A SAFER AND LESS ENVIRONMENTALLY DAMAGING MODE OF TRANSPORTATION IS THE MOST HOLLOW, BASELESS, AND ANTI-ENVIRONMENTAL BULLSHIT ANY SELF-DESCRIBED PERSON WHO CARES ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT COULD 'ACCOMPLISH'.

Really need to come up with a new name for these types of folks, because they aren't 'extreme environmentalists'. Extreme environmentalists would perhaps actually try to minimize the damage to the environment an activity produces rather than CONSCIOUSLY KEEPING IT HIGH.
'Fucking hypocrites', is my personal proposal.


Before building the pipeline maybe we should figure out how to clean up the spills that happen. So far they have failed to do so.
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Postby Chuman-kah » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:54 pm

Nebalon wrote:I think Obama is acting like a communist/socialist which is dangerous, as he's warping the free market to pursue these personal issues. He should allow the pipeline. If it succeeds, it's good, it's helping the country. If not, than it was bad, and should fail. But Obama shouldn't decide for it.

It's far from just a "personal issue." Whatever small benefit the country would get from it would be far outweighed by the ecological damage. Whether you realize it or not, the decisions made about energy and sustainability now will be effecting us for decades and centuries down the line. I applaud Obama for thinking about the long term well being of our country and world, rather than a small short term reward.

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Postby Geilinor » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:54 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
Occupied Deutschland wrote:I've said this repeatedly, but apparently it bears mention again:
THE OIL IS GOING TO GET PUMPED ANYWAYS FROM BOTH THE TAR SANDS AND THE BAKKEN SHALE REGION. THERE IS A SLIGHT SLOWDOWN CURRENTLY DUE TO THE SAUDI/OPEC DUMPING IN THE OIL MARKET, BUT IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN ANYWAYS AND STOPPING THE FUCKING CONSTRUCTION OF A SAFER AND LESS ENVIRONMENTALLY DAMAGING MODE OF TRANSPORTATION IS THE MOST HOLLOW, BASELESS, AND ANTI-ENVIRONMENTAL BULLSHIT ANY SELF-DESCRIBED PERSON WHO CARES ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT COULD 'ACCOMPLISH'.

Really need to come up with a new name for these types of folks, because they aren't 'extreme environmentalists'. Extreme environmentalists would perhaps actually try to minimize the damage to the environment an activity produces rather than CONSCIOUSLY KEEPING IT HIGH.
'Fucking hypocrites', is my personal proposal.


Before building the pipeline maybe we should figure out how to clean up the spills that happen. So far they have failed to do so.

Trains can have oil spills. So can oil tankers and ships.
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Postby Atlanticatia » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:56 pm

The Nihilistic view wrote:
Atlanticatia wrote:TransCanada may be able to sue the US Government under NAFTA, forcing the American taxpayer to pay for their 'lost profits'. Fuck NAFTA and investor-state disputes.


And the EU are going to include that in the trade deal with the US. Fucking idiots.

Agreed.


I'm all for a US-EU free trade deal, or a Canada-US free trade deal. But an oil company being able to sue a foreign government for attempting to protect the environment, or perhaps a tobacco company suing a government for introducing plain packaging, should not be allowed. Especially in unaccountable secretive tribunals that aren't accountable to democratic institutions. That is NOT free trade. That's crony capitalism.
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Postby Occupied Deutschland » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:57 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
Occupied Deutschland wrote:I've said this repeatedly, but apparently it bears mention again:
THE OIL IS GOING TO GET PUMPED ANYWAYS FROM BOTH THE TAR SANDS AND THE BAKKEN SHALE REGION. THERE IS A SLIGHT SLOWDOWN CURRENTLY DUE TO THE SAUDI/OPEC DUMPING IN THE OIL MARKET, BUT IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN ANYWAYS AND STOPPING THE FUCKING CONSTRUCTION OF A SAFER AND LESS ENVIRONMENTALLY DAMAGING MODE OF TRANSPORTATION IS THE MOST HOLLOW, BASELESS, AND ANTI-ENVIRONMENTAL BULLSHIT ANY SELF-DESCRIBED PERSON WHO CARES ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT COULD 'ACCOMPLISH'.

Really need to come up with a new name for these types of folks, because they aren't 'extreme environmentalists'. Extreme environmentalists would perhaps actually try to minimize the damage to the environment an activity produces rather than CONSCIOUSLY KEEPING IT HIGH.
'Fucking hypocrites', is my personal proposal.


Before building the pipeline maybe we should figure out how to clean up the spills that happen. So far they have failed to do so.

Much as 'they' have failed to do so for the railcar and tanker-truck spills that occur.
The ones that are MORE COMMON and result in a greater degree of spillage than pipelines.
Image

It's also probably good to note here that the 'railcar' values above are considered more concerning than they appear in the above graph by the state department's EIS (due to the lighter regulation and stressed state railcar transport was in, being pushed into service to provide transport for the oil coming out of the Bakken region to a degree that didn't exist before with concerns over the impact on safety and regulatory enforcement and effectiveness in light of such problems).

Which is not to even MENTION that the head of the SIerra Club is so full of shit he could be a septic tank. The above EIS ALSO points out that a 'no-action' strategy that keeps oil transport restricted to rail and tanker-truck is actively WORSE from a global warming carbon emission spectrum than the pipeline would be. Because it requires thousands upon thousands of big-rigs to keep hauling hundreds of thousands of barrels of oil hundreds of miles, and big-rigs hauling loads long distances has a tendency to produce greenhouse gases you fuckin' dunce!
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Postby Desperate Measures » Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:05 pm

Nebalon wrote:I think Obama is acting like a communist/socialist which is dangerous, as he's warping the free market to pursue these personal issues. He should allow the pipeline. If it succeeds, it's good, it's helping the country. If not, than it was bad, and should fail. But Obama shouldn't decide for it.

Won't someone think of the pipes? Let pipes roam free!!
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Postby Digital Planets » Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:14 pm

What's funny about this is that when I first heard about this, one, I was high, and two, I thought they were transporting beer through it. It makes me sad that the day it starts to transport beer will never come now.

Thanks, Obama.
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Postby Fanosolia » Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:16 pm

I'm glad since this is the case since the tar sands' carbon will remain in the ground. I do however wonder how this will play into my country's politics, since both the liberals, and conservatives support it.
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Postby Occupied Deutschland » Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:20 pm

Fanosolia wrote:I'm glad since this is the case since the tar sands' carbon will remain in the ground. I do however wonder how this will play into my country's politics, since both the liberals, and conservatives support it.

You know the ONLY thing keeping tar sands in the ground now more than they were when the pipeline is proposed?
Low oil prices.
You know what never impeded the mining of tar sands oil these last few years when oil prices were high enough to make their production profitable? The lack of a pipeline.

The moment OPEC ends the oil-glut we're in, the tar sands (and the Bakken shale region) will go right back to pumping out barrels upon barrels of oil. Lacking a pipeline NEVER STOPPED THEM BEFORE, why in God's name do you think the lack of a pipeline will stop them in the future?
The oil will just get shipped out on tanker-trucks and railcars.
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