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How to deal with advancements in artificial intelligence?

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Olivaero
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How to deal with advancements in artificial intelligence?

Postby Olivaero » Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:53 am

Now as many of you may know artificial intelligence is making massive progress in learning machines. That is Machines/computer programs that are given a task to get better at and then are capable of getting better at it over time until they as good if not better than any human alive. Now there are some tasks that haven't been cracked by programmes yet, there are still plenty of things that we as humans are better at than machines but that my not always be the case. So the question is what to do about this?

There have been numerous doomsday predictions from some leading scientists, Elon Musk and Stephen Hawkling immediately come to mind about a scenario where machines out pace humans and essentially render humans obsolete, I would taske these predictions with a massive pinch of salt as both Elon Musk and Stephen Hawking are not actually experts in the field but even if they were, it's very much a point of discussion whether a programme we could design could ever become what is termed "Strong artificial intelligence". Which is (basically) an artificial intelligence which thinks for it's self in the way a human does, a sentient machine that we would recognize as having the same abilities and reasoning skills as a human. Much less what the consequence would be if this did happen. The fear they are expressing and very much the route of Paranoia about AI is the fear of the unknown one of the most underlying fears in human existence we don't know what will happen if we design a strong AI and just like our fear of the dark is rooted in the fact that darkness obscures the world around us and means we don't know what is there the future is obscured from us and all we have is an over active imagination to fill it with boogeymen and strong AI is one such boogeyman.

But all this being said AI does produce some problems that aren't just anxiety about the unknown, with the ability for a machine to get better and better at a task it leads to the eventual problem that humans who do thoes tasks being not needed to do those tasks any more, to have their lively hood replaced by a machine which we've come to accept in menial jobs like being a cashier we've become at home with the fact that a machine can do a job that isn't what we consider a professional career. But what happens when machines become better doctors or engineers than we are? Do we clamp down on development of AI and leave these jobs for Human workers? essentially give in to our paranoia of the machine? Or do we build a new type of society a kind of service culture where humans are essentially left at their leisure to pursue things that they find value in whilst not actually being provided with recompense for it because the job that actually needs doing is handled by a machine?

So, whats your answer NSG? you may find the scenario I've outlined an irrational one, if so take a single example, (without the whole post scarcity society angle to it) Tomorrow we develop A doctor AI that is cheaper to go to than a real doctor it's capable of diagnosing a great range of conditions, and it's shown to be at least as effective as a human General Practitioner this greatly decreases the demand for doctors, a field that you were previously pretty much guaranteed some type of work in. What do we do with the doctors that we no longer need to employ? They've spent a longtime, an awful longtime becoming doctors do we just turn around and say re-train as something else? which it might not even be worth doing because who's to say the skill set they retrain into is going to be useful beyond a month? When professional skills start being automated in my opinion we're going to it's going to have a much greater effect on society than the menial jobs that we've already seen go. If a machine gets produced in a week to do a job that takes humans 5 years to do can field be considered safe any more?

There of course have been topics like this before on the general theme of automation or the singularity, but I feel like all these things have to be discussed in the context of each other. My own generalized answer to these question would be to develop a citizens income. To get away from the idea that a person needs to earn a wage to be performing a useful job and also to promote the general Idea that life is for personal enrichment rather than for supporting yourself and your loved ones. But of course I'm not capitalist so ideas like this come easy to me so what say ye oh generalities?
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Uawc
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Postby Uawc » Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:59 am

I'm down with AI replacing humans. People are shit. Maybe I could get me a Cortana to keep me company or something.

I'll have to strongly disagree with you as far as doctors go, however. The world needs many, many more, and hopefully the AIs will be less likely to fuck up.
Last edited by Uawc on Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Olivaero
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Postby Olivaero » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:03 am

UAWC wrote:I'm down with AI replacing humans. People are shit. Maybe I could get me a Cortana to keep me company or something.

I'll have to strongly disagree with you as far as doctors go, however. The world needs many, many more, and hopefully the AIs will be less likely to fuck up.

It was simply an example of a previously vital profession being obsoleted rather than a comment on the overall need for doctors.
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Uawc
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Postby Uawc » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:12 am

Olivaero wrote:
UAWC wrote:I'm down with AI replacing humans. People are shit. Maybe I could get me a Cortana to keep me company or something.

I'll have to strongly disagree with you as far as doctors go, however. The world needs many, many more, and hopefully the AIs will be less likely to fuck up.

It was simply an example of a previously vital profession being obsoleted rather than a comment on the overall need for doctors.


I think the same principle of "machines won't fuck up as much" can be applied all across the board.

I also think machines replacing humans is inevitable at this point, and rather than fight it we should try and find a way to keep the roofs over people's heads.

I'd prefer socialism, but I don't think the world is quite ready for it. Marx was centuries ahead of his time.
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Russels Orbiting Teapot
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Postby Russels Orbiting Teapot » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:17 am

All we can ultimately hope for is that we program the seed AI right when we inevitably invent it and let it get loose.

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Postby The United Neptumousian Empire » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:22 am

Perhaps we should simply evolve beyond a society where people need to work. My only concern is that this could lead to hedonism.

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Olthar
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Postby Olthar » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:23 am

Teach it morality and ethics just like how we teach our kids.

*looks at crime rates*

Okay, better than we teach our kids.
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Postby Olivaero » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:25 am

UAWC wrote:
Olivaero wrote:It was simply an example of a previously vital profession being obsoleted rather than a comment on the overall need for doctors.


I think the same principle of "machines won't fuck up as much" can be applied all across the board.

I also think machines replacing humans is inevitable at this point, and rather than fight it we should try and find a way to keep the roofs over people's heads.

I'd prefer socialism, but I don't think the world is quite ready for it. Marx was centuries ahead of his time.

Yeah, I chose doctors because it takes really quite a long time to become one in the overall course of a human life. I agree we shouldn't fight it, indeed quite a radical re-envisoning of our society is needed a lot of people wont be able to get their heads around the idea that wealth is not necessarily produced by humans any more.
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Dremovia
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Postby Dremovia » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:26 am

No manuel over-ride no go .... Don't need a car etc telling me to shut the door, speeding etc :eyebrow:

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Olthar
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Postby Olthar » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:28 am

The United Neptumousian Empire wrote:Perhaps we should simply evolve beyond a society where people need to work. My only concern is that this could lead to hedonism.

You say that like it's a bad thing.
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The Conez Imperium
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Postby The Conez Imperium » Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:28 am

I don't like Artificial Intelligence. Theoretically artificial intelligence is another sentient being?

Certain people discriminate others by skin colour. If us Humans cannot move as far as social constructs how can we adequately deal with another race of "robots?" fairly and justly.
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Postby Knockturn Alley » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:10 am

The Conez Imperium wrote:I don't like Artificial Intelligence. Theoretically artificial intelligence is another sentient being?

Certain people discriminate others by skin colour. If us Humans cannot move as far as social constructs how can we adequately deal with another race of "robots?" fairly and justly.


That was precisely my point in a previous thread about Clones
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Postby L Ron Cupboard » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:11 am

Dremovia wrote:No manuel over-ride no go .... Don't need a car etc telling me to shut the door, speeding etc :eyebrow:


Who is this Manuel chap? A Spaniard in the works?
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Postby Hanchu » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:11 am

Olthar wrote:
The United Neptumousian Empire wrote:Perhaps we should simply evolve beyond a society where people need to work. My only concern is that this could lead to hedonism.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

It's a good thing , but also not a thing that Will happen to everyone

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Postby Dooom35796821595 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:13 am

The Conez Imperium wrote:I don't like Artificial Intelligence. Theoretically artificial intelligence is another sentient being?

Certain people discriminate others by skin colour. If us Humans cannot move as far as social constructs how can we adequately deal with another race of "robots?" fairly and justly.


Well, maybe humans don't deserve to survive? No one likes considering that possibility.
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Olivaero
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Postby Olivaero » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:14 am

The Conez Imperium wrote:I don't like Artificial Intelligence. Theoretically artificial intelligence is another sentient being?

Certain people discriminate others by skin colour. If us Humans cannot move as far as social constructs how can we adequately deal with another race of "robots?" fairly and justly.

A strong AI would essentially be a sentient being yes, things like for example SIRI or my hypothesized Doctor Bot would be weak AI's. Essentially they are pretty good at a specific type of intelligence the doctor bot is good at diagnosing someone SIRI is good at recognizing speech and interpreting it (some what). Weak AI's aren't people they don't have feelings or the faculty to demand rights or anything like that.
Last edited by Olivaero on Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Uawc » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:16 am

The United Neptumousian Empire wrote:Perhaps we should simply evolve beyond a society where people need to work. My only concern is that this could lead to hedonism.

Could? Motherfucker, I bet half the guys on NSG would have their own robot harems. :p
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The Conez Imperium wrote:I don't like Artificial Intelligence. Theoretically artificial intelligence is another sentient being?

Certain people discriminate others by skin colour. If us Humans cannot move as far as social constructs how can we adequately deal with another race of "robots?" fairly and justly.

People are really shitty about that. I'm sure there would be discrimination of that sort, but purely because such things would be horribly mismanaged by most governments.
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Postby Social justice land » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:21 am

Olivaero wrote:
The Conez Imperium wrote:I don't like Artificial Intelligence. Theoretically artificial intelligence is another sentient being?

Certain people discriminate others by skin colour. If us Humans cannot move as far as social constructs how can we adequately deal with another race of "robots?" fairly and justly.

A strong AI would essentially be a sentient being yes, things like for example SIRI or my hypothesized Doctor Bot would be weak AI's. Essentially they are pretty good at a specific type of intelligence the doctor bot is good at diagnosing someone SIRI is good at recognizing speech and interpreting it (some what). Weak AI's aren't people they don't have feelings or the faculty to demand rights or anything like that.


its only really sentient if its truly self aware, it can have the equivalent of 10 phD's in medicine, but if it is incapable of self reflection and philosophizing about the nature of society, if it has no desires and dreams, its hardly sentient. its just darn intelligent.

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Postby Uawc » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:22 am

Dooom35796821595 wrote:
The Conez Imperium wrote:I don't like Artificial Intelligence. Theoretically artificial intelligence is another sentient being?

Certain people discriminate others by skin colour. If us Humans cannot move as far as social constructs how can we adequately deal with another race of "robots?" fairly and justly.


Well, maybe humans don't deserve to survive? No one likes considering that possibility.


I'll consider it. I'll take an AI over a human any day, for any purpose.
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Social justice land
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Postby Social justice land » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:25 am

The Conez Imperium wrote:I don't like Artificial Intelligence. Theoretically artificial intelligence is another sentient being?

Certain people discriminate others by skin colour. If us Humans cannot move as far as social constructs how can we adequately deal with another race of "robots?" fairly and justly.


i don't see why robots have to treated fairly or humanely at all, they're essentially a slave ''race'', that can be built and designed to do what we wish, to fulfill dangerous and complex tasks, as well as simple manual labour. in line with this thinking, IMO machines should not be given any true sentience, but just enough intelligence and information for its singular task.

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Olivaero
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Postby Olivaero » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:27 am

Social justice land wrote:
Olivaero wrote:A strong AI would essentially be a sentient being yes, things like for example SIRI or my hypothesized Doctor Bot would be weak AI's. Essentially they are pretty good at a specific type of intelligence the doctor bot is good at diagnosing someone SIRI is good at recognizing speech and interpreting it (some what). Weak AI's aren't people they don't have feelings or the faculty to demand rights or anything like that.


its only really sentient if its truly self aware, it can have the equivalent of 10 phD's in medicine, but if it is incapable of self reflection and philosophizing about the nature of society, if it has no desires and dreams, its hardly sentient. its just darn intelligent.

I don't understand what you are saying, are you saying you think a AI is incapable of this?
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Social justice land
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Postby Social justice land » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:43 am

Olivaero wrote:
Social justice land wrote:
its only really sentient if its truly self aware, it can have the equivalent of 10 phD's in medicine, but if it is incapable of self reflection and philosophizing about the nature of society, if it has no desires and dreams, its hardly sentient. its just darn intelligent.

I don't understand what you are saying, are you saying you think a AI is incapable of this?

no i didn't say AI is incapable of sentience, but sentience is not just knowing stuff. its the ability to self reflect and think about oneself and the world. if all an AI has is knowledge and expertise in one area its not sentient.

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Olivaero
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Postby Olivaero » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:48 am

Social justice land wrote:
Olivaero wrote:I don't understand what you are saying, are you saying you think a AI is incapable of this?

no i didn't say AI is incapable of sentience, but sentience is not just knowing stuff. its the ability to self reflect and think about oneself and the world. if all an AI has is knowledge and expertise in one area its not sentient.

I know that... That's what I was saying the post you quoted... strong AI is sentient weak AI isn't.
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Social justice land
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Postby Social justice land » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:54 am

Olivaero wrote:
Social justice land wrote:no i didn't say AI is incapable of sentience, but sentience is not just knowing stuff. its the ability to self reflect and think about oneself and the world. if all an AI has is knowledge and expertise in one area its not sentient.

I know that... That's what I was saying the post you quoted... strong AI is sentient weak AI isn't.


strength is a matter of perspective. as i said, an AI can have the all the knowledge known to man about medicine and health practices, and still not be sentient. its hardly weak, as its intellect and knowledge base far outmatches anything human, but it can't think in a reflective or constructive manner. sentience stems not from a variety of knowledge but a self reflective process, which is why the average human who's intellect is far weaker than a super computer is sentient, whereas super computers of today aren't sentient,despite being far more knowledgeable and intelligent than humans.
Last edited by Social justice land on Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Esternial » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:57 am

Whatever happens, happens. It's not like mankind will live on until eternity in the first place, and my own lifespan is just a speck in a speck in a speck on the cosmic timeline. If I get killed by a robot master race, my last words would probably be to wish them luck and hope they'll do better than we did.

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