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Is America a Christian Nation?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Is America a Christian Nation?

Yes, America is a Christian Nation
55
18%
No, America is not a Christian Nation
193
64%
America could Plausibly be a Christian Nation
48
16%
I Don't Know
7
2%
 
Total votes : 303

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The United Territories of Providence
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Is America a Christian Nation?

Postby The United Territories of Providence » Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:53 pm

Okay, because some people like to thread jack instead of focusing on the topic at hand. This new topic exists for the discussion of the topic some people apparently feel the need to discuss.

I do not believe we are a Christian Nation, but rather a Nation populated by a Christian Majority. We were not founded upon the Christian religion and our Constitution is not based on biblical law. Even our founding fathers agreed this was not a Christian Nation. The Treaty of Tripoli, which was signed by John Adams, as in Revolutionary War Patriot John Adams, states that; "the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion".

That treaty was approved by the senate and signed in 1797....Even without the Treaty we wouldn't be a Christian nation. There is no such thing as a "Christian Nation". Just like there are no Islamic Nations. There are Sunni and Shia states, but there isn't just a country that abides by the Islam. That's because there is no "general Christianity", Christianity is set up into denominations whose beliefs differ enough to cause conflict. We could be a Baptist Nation, or Catholic Nation, or Lutheran, Presbyterian, Methodist, Pentecostal Nation...But a Christian Nation is just an impossible idea. That's my Opinion. But obviously, I want to know the opinion of NS. Is America a Christian Nation? Should America be a Christian Nation? Why or Why not.

Is the United States a "Christian nation"? Some Americans think so. Religious Right activists and right-wing television preachers often claim that the United States was founded to be a Christian nation. Even some politicians agree. If the people who make this assertion are merely saying that most Americans are Christians, they might have a point. But those who argue that America is a Christian nation usually mean something more, insisting that the country should be officially Christian. The very character of our country is at stake in the outcome of this debate.

Religious Right groups and their allies insist that the United States was designed to be officially Christian and that our laws should enforce the doctrines of (their version of) Christianity. Is this viewpoint accurate? Is there anything in the Constitution that gives special treatment or preference to Christianity? Did the founders of our government believe this or intend to create a government that gave special recognition to Christianity?

The answer to all of these questions is no. The U.S. Constitution is a wholly secular document. It contains no mention of Christianity or Jesus Christ. In fact, the Constitution refers to religion only twice in the First Amendment, which bars laws "respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," and in Article VI, which prohibits "religious tests" for public office. Both of these provisions are evidence that the country was not founded as officially Christian.

The Founding Fathers did not create a secular government because they disliked religion. Many were believers themselves. Yet they were well aware of the dangers of church-state union. They had studied and even seen first-hand the difficulties that church-state partnerships spawned in Europe. During the American colonial period, alliances between religion and government produced oppression and tyranny on our own shores.

Many colonies, for example, had provisions limiting public office to "Trinitarian Protestants" and other types of laws designed to prop up the religious sentiments of the politically powerful. Some colonies had officially established churches and taxed all citizens to support them, whether they were members or not. Dissenters faced imprisonment, torture and even death.

These arrangements led to bitterness and sectarian division. Many people began agitating for an end to "religious tests" for public office, tax subsidies for churches and other forms of state endorsement of religion. Those who led this charge were not anti-religion. Indeed, many were members of the clergy and people of deep piety. They argued that true faith did not need or want the support of government.

Respect for religious pluralism gradually became the norm. When Thomas Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence, for example, he spoke of "unalienable rights endowed by our Creator." He used generic religious language that all religious groups of the day would respond to, not narrowly Christian language traditionally employed by nations with state churches.

While some of the country's founders believed that the government should espouse Christianity, that viewpoint soon became a losing proposition. In Virginia, Patrick Henry argued in favor of tax support for Christian churches. But Henry and his cohorts were in the minority and lost that battle. Jefferson, James Madison and their allies among the state's religious groups ended Virginia's established church and helped pass the Virginia Statute for Religious Liberty, a 1786 law guaranteeing religious freedom to all.

Jefferson and Madison's viewpoint also carried the day when the Constitution, and later, the Bill of Rights, were written. Had an officially Christian nation been the goal of the founders, that concept would appear in the Constitution. It does not. Instead, our nation's governing document ensures religious freedom for everyone.

Maryland representative Luther Martin said that a handful of delegates to the Constitutional Convention argued for formal recognition of Christianity in the Constitution, insisting that such language was necessary in order to "hold out some distinction between the professors of Christianity and downright infidelity or paganism." But that view was not adopted, and the Constitution gave government no authority over religion. Article VI, which allows persons of all religious viewpoints to hold public office, was adopted by a unanimous vote. Through ratification of the First Amendment, observed Jefferson, the American people built a "wall of separation between church and state."

Some pastors who favored church-state union were outraged and delivered sermons asserting that the United States would not be a successful nation because its Constitution did not give special treatment to Christianity. But many others welcomed the new dawn of freedom and praised the Constitution and the First Amendment as true protectors of liberty.

Early national leaders understood that separation of church and state would be good for all faiths including Christianity. Jefferson rejoiced that Virginia had passed his religious freedom law, noting that it would ensure religious freedom for "the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan, the Hindoo, the infidel of every denomination."

Other early U.S. leaders echoed that view. President George Washington, in a famous 1790 letter to a Jewish congregation in Newport, R.I., celebrated the fact that Jews had full freedom of worship in America. Noted Washington, "All possess alike liberty of conscience and immunities of citizenship."

Washington's administration even negotiated a treaty with the Muslim rulers of north Africa that stated explicitly that the United States was not founded on Christianity. The pact, known as the Treaty with Tripoli, was approved unanimously by the Senate in 1797, under the administration of John Adams. Article 11 of the treaty states, "[T]he government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion…."

Admittedly, the U.S. government has not always lived up to its constitutional principles. In the late 19th century especially, officials often promoted a de facto form of Protestantism. Even the U.S. Supreme Court fell victim to this mentality in 1892, with Justice David Brewer declaring in Holy Trinity v. United States that America is "a Christian nation."

The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion….

—U.S. Treaty with Tripoli, 1797

It should be noted, however, that the Holy Trinity decision is a legal anomaly. It has rarely been cited by other courts, and the "Christian nation" declaration appeared in dicta a legal term meaning writing that reflects a judge's personal opinion, not a mandate of the law. Also, it is unclear exactly what Brewer meant. In a book he wrote in 1905, Brewer pointed out that the United States is Christian in a cultural sense, not a legal one.

A more accurate judicial view of the relationship between religion and government is described by Justice John Paul Stevens in his 1985 Wallace v. Jaffree ruling. Commenting on the constitutional right of all Americans to choose their own religious belief, Stevens wrote, "At one time it was thought that this right merely proscribed the preference of one Christian sect over another, but would not require equal respect for the conscience of the infidel, the atheist, or the adherent of a non-Christian faith such as Mohammedism or Judaism. But when the underlying principle has been examined in the crucible of litigation, the Court has unambiguously concluded that the individual freedom of conscience protected by the First Amendment embraces the right to select any religious faith or none at all."

A determined faction of Christians has fought against this wise and time-tested policy throughout our history. In the mid 19th century, several efforts were made to add specific references to Christianity to the Constitution. One group, the National Reform Association (NRA), pushed a "Christian nation" amendment in Congress in 1864. NRA members believed that the Civil War was divine punishment for failing to mention God in the Constitution and saw the amendment as a way to atone for that omission.

The NRA amendment called for "humbly acknowledging Almighty God as the source of all authority and power in civil government, the Lord Jesus Christ as the Ruler among the nations, [and] His revealed will as the supreme law of the land, in order to constitute a Christian government." Ten years later, the House Judiciary Committee voted against its adoption. The committee noted "the dangers which the union between church and state had imposed upon so many nations of the Old World" and said in light of that it was felt "inexpedient to put anything into the Constitution which might be construed to be a reference to any religious creed or doctrine."

Similar theocratic proposals resurfaced in Congress sporadically over the years. As late as 1950, a proposal was introduced in the Senate that would have added language to the Constitution that "devoutly recognizes the Authority and Law of Jesus Christ, Saviour and Ruler of nations, through whom are bestowed the blessings of liberty." This amendment was never voted out of committee. Efforts to revive it in the early 1960s were unsuccessful.

Today, America's religious demographics are changing, and diversity has greatly expanded since our nation's founding. The number of Jews has increased, and more Muslims are living in America than ever before. Other religions now represented in America include Hinduism, Buddhism and a myriad others. In addition, many Americans say they have no religious faith or identify themselves as atheists, agnostics or Humanists. According to some scholars, over 2,000 distinct religious groups and denominations exist in the United States.

Also, even though most Americans identify as Christian, this does not mean they would back official government recognition of the Christian faith. Christian denominations disagree on points of doctrine, church structure and stands on social issues. Many Christians take a moderate or liberal perspective on church-state relations and oppose efforts to impose religion by government action.

Americans should be proud that we live in a democracy that welcomes persons of many faiths and none. Around the globe, millions of people still dwell under oppressive regimes where religion and government are harshly commingled. (Iran and the former Taliban regime of Afghanistan are just two examples.) Many residents of those countries look to the United States as beacon of hope and a model for what their own nations might someday become.

When the underlying principle has been examined in the crucible of litigation, the Court has unambiguously concluded that the individual freedom of conscience protected by the First Amendment embraces the right to select any religious faith or none at all.

—Justice John Paul Stevens

Only the principle of church-state separation can protect America's incredible degree of religious freedom. The individual rights and diversity we enjoy cannot be maintained if the government promotes Christianity or if our government takes on the trappings of a "faith-based" state.

The United States, in short, was not founded to be an officially Christian nation or to espouse any official religion. Our government is neutral on religious matters, leaving such decisions to individuals. This democratic and pluralistic system has allowed a broad array of religious groups to grow and flourish and guarantees every individual American the right to determine his or her own spiritual path or to reject religion entirely. As a result of this policy, Americans enjoy more religious freedom than any people in world history. We should be proud of this accomplishment and work to preserve the constitutional principle that made it possible separation of church and state.

https://www.au.org/resources/publications/is-america-a-christian-nation
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MERIZoC
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Postby MERIZoC » Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:54 pm

No.

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The Conez Imperium
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Postby The Conez Imperium » Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:54 pm

There is a large Christian majority and some of those Christian are very vocal and passionate about Christianity. Even though America is not founded as a Christian nation de facto I would say they are.
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Liriena
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Postby Liriena » Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:56 pm

I think there's an awful lot of legally binding documents that make it quite clear that the United States of America are not, in any way, a Christian nation.
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The Princes of the Universe
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Postby The Princes of the Universe » Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:57 pm

Legally, absolutely not. Culturally, nominally at best.
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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:57 pm

We are not a Christian nation, we are a secular nation with a large sometimes very vocal Christian majority.
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Rebellious Fishermen
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Postby Rebellious Fishermen » Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:57 pm

Yes, as it was founded, but the lines are changing today.

Yeah, yeah I understand the whole separate of church and state, but all of the founding fathers were Christian in one form or another and many of the clauses in the constitution, such as all men are created equal, were based on the idea of God. Other areas based off John Locke's principles, such as property rights, are directly derived from God and the bible as justification of such things. It goes on and on.

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Othelos
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Postby Othelos » Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:58 pm

There are Christians in America. However, the government is secular, as the founding fathers intended. They were deeply opposed to religion taking over the country, despite what some conservatives think.

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Insaeldor
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Postby Insaeldor » Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:00 pm

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Going by the underlined here in the first amendment it's clear that the United States Government is not ment to indorse the teachings of a single religion thus making it Secular in nature. We are a Christian majority nation with around 70% of the population being or consitering themselves christian but a christian majority state=/=christian state and it shouldn't.

So no in my opinion we are not a Christian Nation.
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Metropolitan Leeds
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Postby Metropolitan Leeds » Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:00 pm

Unfortunately, yes, even though their constitution is officially secular.

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Alcase
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Postby Alcase » Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:01 pm

Is another thread on the exact same thing really necessary?

If the issue and its debates have expired, why bring up such an unnecessary thing again? Who cares what I believe the United States is religiously leaned towards or what the other guy thinks about it; it's really all a big nonsensical debate that has long since been argued and expired.
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Absylonia
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Postby Absylonia » Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:01 pm

If you are not a Chritian Nation. Why the hell do you swear on the Bible at Tribunal ?

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Mike the Progressive
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Postby Mike the Progressive » Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:02 pm

The country has certainly been largely shaped and influenced by Christianity, but no, it's not a Christian nation.

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The Princes of the Universe
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Postby The Princes of the Universe » Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:02 pm

Absylonia wrote:If you are not a Chritian Nation. Why the hell do you swear on the Bible at Tribunal ?

Hell if I know.
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Alcase
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Postby Alcase » Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:02 pm

Absylonia wrote:If you are not a Chritian Nation. Why the hell do you swear on the Bible at Tribunal ?

Tradition.
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Liberty and Linguistics
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Postby Liberty and Linguistics » Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:02 pm

Just because the majority of our population is Christian, it doesn't mean that the US is a Christian nation. While Christianity has a large influence on society, the state does not have Christianity as the official religion, nor does Christianity have any institutionalized influence on the law, government, and many other things. Simply put, America is a secular nation, with a secular government, that has a Christian majority.
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Rebellious Fishermen
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Postby Rebellious Fishermen » Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:03 pm

Absylonia wrote:If you are not a Chritian Nation. Why the hell do you swear on the Bible at Tribunal ?


Excellent point. Much of our government is grounded in the ideals of Christianity.

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Insaeldor
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Postby Insaeldor » Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:03 pm

Alcase wrote:
Absylonia wrote:If you are not a Chritian Nation. Why the hell do you swear on the Bible at Tribunal ?

Tradition.

You can opt out of using the bible. Like my cousin we he was testifying in a court case the judge allowed him to use a law book.
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Solaray
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Postby Solaray » Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:03 pm

It's a secular nation that happens to have a lot of Christians.
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Mike the Progressive
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Postby Mike the Progressive » Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:04 pm

Alcase wrote:
Absylonia wrote:If you are not a Chritian Nation. Why the hell do you swear on the Bible at Tribunal ?

Tradition.


Yep.

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MERIZoC
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Postby MERIZoC » Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:06 pm

Absylonia wrote:If you are not a Chritian Nation. Why the hell do you swear on the Bible at Tribunal ?

…..
That's like saying "If murder is illegal, why is there murder". People shouldn't swear on the Bible, but they do. Same case with "one nation, under God"

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Sarigen
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Postby Sarigen » Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:06 pm

Liriena wrote:I think there's an awful lot of legally binding documents that make it quite clear that the United States of America are not, in any way, a Christian nation.


This, despite the Christian majority, precedent set by law, and the fact that it wasn't founded as a christian nation, speak to the fact that it is NOT a christian nation...and with christian demographics decreasing, someday it won't even be a nation influenced by Christianity.

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Alcase
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Postby Alcase » Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:06 pm

Liberty and Linguistics wrote:Just because the majority of our population is Christian, it doesn't mean that the US is a Christian nation. While Christianity has a large influence on society, the state does not have Christianity as the official religion, nor does Christianity have any institutionalized influence on the law, government, and many other things. Simply put, America is a secular nation, with a secular government, that has a Christian majority.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/camille-veselka/a-detrimental-influence-t_b_1106045.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nigel-barber/why-religion-rules-americ_b_1690433.html
http://teachourhistory.com/religion-and-government.htm
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Lost heros
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Postby Lost heros » Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:08 pm

No

That concludes another segment of simple answers to stupid questions.
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Postby Conserative Morality » Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:08 pm

Absylonia wrote:If you are not a Chritian Nation. Why the hell do you swear on the Bible at Tribunal ?

Do we? I don't believe 'we' do.
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