by Dread Lady Nathicana » Sun Dec 21, 2014 2:16 pm
by Cerillium » Sun Dec 21, 2014 3:38 pm
I wear teal, blue & pink for Swith
There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man’s fears, and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination.
by Soldati Senza Confini » Sun Dec 21, 2014 3:48 pm
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.
by Cerillium » Sun Dec 21, 2014 4:11 pm
Soldati senza confini wrote:I feel asexuality can be separate for the moment, at least try it that way for a couple of months because it is a significant phenomenon that, as Cerillium said, encompasses all walks of life. I know I'm the last one to talk about asexuals here given that I'm not, I just have issues lol, but still I'm not sure if asexuals will agree with me that asexuals are a group of their own and not within the LGBT groupings given many asexuals don't belong given they have not a sexual orientation difference but, rather, a sexual expression difference.
I wear teal, blue & pink for Swith
There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man’s fears, and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination.
by Soldati Senza Confini » Sun Dec 21, 2014 4:35 pm
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.
by Nazi Flower Power » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:27 pm
Soldati senza confini wrote:I feel asexuality can be separate for the moment, at least try it that way for a couple of months because it is a significant phenomenon that, as Cerillium said, encompasses all walks of life. I know I'm the last one to talk about asexuals here given that I'm not, I just have issues lol, but still I'm not sure if asexuals will agree with me that asexuals are a group of their own and not within the LGBT groupings given many asexuals don't belong given they have not a sexual orientation difference but, rather, a sexual expression difference.
by Soldati Senza Confini » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:31 pm
Nazi Flower Power wrote:I think asexuality belongs in the LGBT thread because there is one very basic issue that asexuals, homosexuals, and bi people have in common -- getting people not to look down on you or make moral judgements about you for the way your sex drive operates.
Some of the more specific issues -- e.g. marriage inequality, discrimination against adoptive parents -- don't apply to all three groups, but all of it comes from the same basic problem of heteronormativity.Soldati senza confini wrote:I feel asexuality can be separate for the moment, at least try it that way for a couple of months because it is a significant phenomenon that, as Cerillium said, encompasses all walks of life. I know I'm the last one to talk about asexuals here given that I'm not, I just have issues lol, but still I'm not sure if asexuals will agree with me that asexuals are a group of their own and not within the LGBT groupings given many asexuals don't belong given they have not a sexual orientation difference but, rather, a sexual expression difference.
Transsexuals don't have a sexual orientation difference either.
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.
by NERVUN » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:40 pm
by Soldati Senza Confini » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:42 pm
NERVUN wrote:Just as a suggestion, would it perhaps be better if we just renamed the thread: Sexuality and Gender?
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.
by NERVUN » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:45 pm
by Soldati Senza Confini » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:47 pm
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.
by Nazi Flower Power » Sun Dec 21, 2014 9:16 pm
Soldati senza confini wrote:Nazi Flower Power wrote:I think asexuality belongs in the LGBT thread because there is one very basic issue that asexuals, homosexuals, and bi people have in common -- getting people not to look down on you or make moral judgements about you for the way your sex drive operates.
Some of the more specific issues -- e.g. marriage inequality, discrimination against adoptive parents -- don't apply to all three groups, but all of it comes from the same basic problem of heteronormativity.
Transsexuals don't have a sexual orientation difference either.
Well, yes, but transsexuals are more of a gender expression rather than a sexuality expression, at least that's how I see it because you can be straight, be a man who identifies as a man and still be within the spectrum of asexuality.
It's my opinion though, so if I am wrong I am aware that I can be wrong and I'd appreciate for other people to point out where I am wrong, here.
NERVUN wrote:Just as a suggestion, would it perhaps be better if we just renamed the thread: Sexuality and Gender?
by Grenartia » Mon Dec 22, 2014 3:58 am
Cerillium wrote:Splitting the thread would accomplish the one thing that some of us are trying to prevent. It would reinforce discrimination.
Blekksprutia wrote:Dread Lady Nathicana wrote:Degenerate Heart of HetRio & The Steel Magnolia: Can you please take your personal vendettas and keep them off the forum, put one another on ignore if necessary?
Not only that, but this is, as I recall, the LGBT Rights & Issues Thread. Not the 'all recently invented/recognized/imagined or otherwise constructed genders of all sorts Rights & Issues Thread'. I hope I'm not being utterly inconsiderate when I say that perhaps it might be wise to separate this into an 'Alternate Genders' and the more understood and widely accepted 'LGBT' thread that currently exists. There has been, from what I've seen here and elsewhere, more of a divide concerning all of that, than might be healthy to group all together.
This is not to disregard, dismiss, or belittle any other positions, opinions, and beliefs, but it just isn't helping things to cause more divisiveness here. We're not about preventing discussion. But neither are we wanting to create more drama, or force issues where they needn't necessarily be forced.
There has been enough nastiness posted here as is, and I may still go back and split things out on account, but for now, please. Let's split things out, and keep things civil. No one is doing anyone any favors with how things have been going here. It belittles everyone.
Yes. This is a great idea. The L, G and B have really been taken out of this thread of late. It's just become the Trans Discussion Thread.
Nazi Flower Power wrote:I think asexuality belongs in the LGBT thread because there is one very basic issue that asexuals, homosexuals, and bi people have in common -- getting people not to look down on you or make moral judgements about you for the way your sex drive operates.
Some of the more specific issues -- e.g. marriage inequality, discrimination against adoptive parents -- don't apply to all three groups, but all of it comes from the same basic problem of heteronormativity.Soldati senza confini wrote:I feel asexuality can be separate for the moment, at least try it that way for a couple of months because it is a significant phenomenon that, as Cerillium said, encompasses all walks of life. I know I'm the last one to talk about asexuals here given that I'm not, I just have issues lol, but still I'm not sure if asexuals will agree with me that asexuals are a group of their own and not within the LGBT groupings given many asexuals don't belong given they have not a sexual orientation difference but, rather, a sexual expression difference.
Transsexuals don't have a sexual orientation difference either.
NERVUN wrote:Just as a suggestion, would it perhaps be better if we just renamed the thread: Sexuality and Gender?
by Degenerate Heart of HetRio » Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:28 am
by Grenartia » Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:39 am
Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:I'm against splitting as well. I favor the existence of a discussion thread, maybe in separate from the general news one when the existent incarnation reaches 500 pages.
by Dumb Ideologies » Mon Dec 22, 2014 6:28 am
by Dread Lady Nathicana » Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:48 am
by Grenartia » Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:17 am
Dread Lady Nathicana wrote:Seeing as the original cause for creating the thread has by and large passed - the overwhelming predominance of LGBT threads, for every state, every law, every occasion that was cropping up faster than folks could keep up - letting it rest and allowing again individual issues is definitely an option, if that would help smooth things without being deliberately divisive.
The option of F7 was brought up - at the time, there is absolutely no rule against setting up a location thread where likeminded folks could congregate and discuss. Obviously, the same rules apply, with the addition of 'no cybering and watch the flirting levels' that tend to go with those threads needing to be more closely observed. In addition, if the thread is full of meaningful discussion that you'd rather not have lost to the regular culling, you can request an archiving of it. It's a thought, anyway.
If splitting is not a good option, that's fine too - I tossed it out there to see if there was support, given the problems that have been cropping up. In the end, I'm fine with whatever the community at large prefers, so long as players aren't marginalized, and relative peace and civility can be achieved. That's my only goal here - helping players get along, and find a place for their voice on the forums
I don't think anyone needs to be discriminated against for being who and what they are, unless their only purpose here is to troll, harass, bait, and otherwise make a nuisance of themselves. Those, we'll sort out as best we can as the situations arise, and shan't call it 'discrimination'. That there is more 'removing the trash', so far as I'm concerned.
by Soldati Senza Confini » Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:42 am
Grenartia wrote:Dread Lady Nathicana wrote:Seeing as the original cause for creating the thread has by and large passed - the overwhelming predominance of LGBT threads, for every state, every law, every occasion that was cropping up faster than folks could keep up - letting it rest and allowing again individual issues is definitely an option, if that would help smooth things without being deliberately divisive.
The option of F7 was brought up - at the time, there is absolutely no rule against setting up a location thread where likeminded folks could congregate and discuss. Obviously, the same rules apply, with the addition of 'no cybering and watch the flirting levels' that tend to go with those threads needing to be more closely observed. In addition, if the thread is full of meaningful discussion that you'd rather not have lost to the regular culling, you can request an archiving of it. It's a thought, anyway.
If splitting is not a good option, that's fine too - I tossed it out there to see if there was support, given the problems that have been cropping up. In the end, I'm fine with whatever the community at large prefers, so long as players aren't marginalized, and relative peace and civility can be achieved. That's my only goal here - helping players get along, and find a place for their voice on the forums
I don't think anyone needs to be discriminated against for being who and what they are, unless their only purpose here is to troll, harass, bait, and otherwise make a nuisance of themselves. Those, we'll sort out as best we can as the situations arise, and shan't call it 'discrimination'. That there is more 'removing the trash', so far as I'm concerned.
My biggest problem with F7 is that a discussion thread there would tend to draw a different crowd than one in NSG (again, like the various religious discussion threads we have there) would.
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.
by Grenartia » Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:49 am
Soldati senza confini wrote:Grenartia wrote:
My biggest problem with F7 is that a discussion thread there would tend to draw a different crowd than one in NSG (again, like the various religious discussion threads we have there) would.
Honestly, with NSG you already get trolls and fascists and other sorts of inpalatable folks. What's so different in F7?
by Dread Lady Nathicana » Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:56 am
Grenartia wrote:Soldati senza confini wrote:Honestly, with NSG you already get trolls and fascists and other sorts of inpalatable folks. What's so different in F7?
Mostly just the crowd. Most people who hit up NSG don't hit up F7, and vice versa. This is the reason that NSG and F7 had separate chat threads (back when F7 had only one chat thread allowed).
I honestly think there should be a subforum in NSG, specifically for discussion threads, and with thread ownership. That way people can create a thread on whatever topic they like, just to discuss, without having to put up with trolls and similar garbage.
by Degenerate Heart of HetRio » Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:58 am
by Grenartia » Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:12 am
Dread Lady Nathicana wrote:Grenartia wrote:
Mostly just the crowd. Most people who hit up NSG don't hit up F7, and vice versa. This is the reason that NSG and F7 had separate chat threads (back when F7 had only one chat thread allowed).
I honestly think there should be a subforum in NSG, specifically for discussion threads, and with thread ownership. That way people can create a thread on whatever topic they like, just to discuss, without having to put up with trolls and similar garbage.
We really don't need any more subforums, from what's been discussed on the admin side of things. The fact that some don't like the crossover is unfortunate, but that's the tools we currently have available. You can OP a thing in F7, and you can ask to have trolls removed. No one needs put up with 'trolls and similar garbage'.
As I said, only clarified because someone brought it up earlier. No one is forcing the discussion to move anywhere at this point.
Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:The idea of having a discussion thread that is closely watched is awesome, but that of thread ownership... I don't think mods would agree with it. Isn't it only a thing for RP, currently?
by The Blaatschapen » Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:01 am
Grenartia wrote:Dread Lady Nathicana wrote:We really don't need any more subforums, from what's been discussed on the admin side of things. The fact that some don't like the crossover is unfortunate, but that's the tools we currently have available. You can OP a thing in F7, and you can ask to have trolls removed. No one needs put up with 'trolls and similar garbage'.
As I said, only clarified because someone brought it up earlier. No one is forcing the discussion to move anywhere at this point.
Fair enough.Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:The idea of having a discussion thread that is closely watched is awesome, but that of thread ownership... I don't think mods would agree with it. Isn't it only a thing for RP, currently?
Thread ownership is a thing in the various NS RP forums, P2TM, F7, and I believe A&F (though I could be wrong on that). NSG is actually one of the few places where it isn't a thing.
by Grenartia » Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:13 am
The Blaatschapen wrote:Grenartia wrote:
Fair enough.
Thread ownership is a thing in the various NS RP forums, P2TM, F7, and I believe A&F (though I could be wrong on that). NSG is actually one of the few places where it isn't a thing.
You're wrong on A&F.
Thread ownership is only a thing for RPs. 1. Some F7 threads (the non-RP ones) don't have it.
2. What I fear with NSG thread ownership is that it would be used to pre-emptively block dissenting voices from participating. Imagine a thread on abortion that only Pro-<option> would be able to participate in. That's hardly going to be a meaningful debate, with only one side of the public opinion participating in it.
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