The Perceived Gender Wage Gap of America

[Skappola]

I found this gem from Reddit:

http://money.cnn.com/2014/10/27/news/ec ... r-pay-gap/

Women -- if you're waiting for the wage gap to close soon, don't hold your breath.
Currently, there's no country in the entire world where a woman earns as much as a man for doing the same job. And it's going to take another 81 years for the gender gap to close, according to a new report by the World Economic Forum.

Sure, the gap is narrowing. Very slowly.
The U.S., for instance, narrowed its wage gap by one percentage point to 66% in one year "meaning that women earn about two-thirds of what men earn for similar work according to the perception of business leaders," WEF's economist Saadia Zahidi said. The U.S. also ranked 65th in wage equality among 142 countries in the report.
The WEF measured the pay gap by polling CEOs around the world about salaries of their employees. Here are some other findings.
Italian women don't make even half: Italy and Israel made it to the top of the heap in terms of countries that offer the most equal opportunities for women. But a woman earned only 48% of a man's salary in Italy and 47% in Israel.

Burundi is surprise winner: Some of the world's poorest countries lead the equality ranking. Burundi, where four out of five people live below the poverty line, is the top country in women's pay. Women in the tiny African country earn 83% of salaries of the men in the same jobs.
Gender gap infographic
Women earn more in Denmark: Denmark is the only place where women earn on average more than men -- although the difference is just 2%. But that's because there are many more women in better paid jobs. However, even in Denmark, when they are both doing the same job, a woman will earn 71% of what a man makes.
More powerful in Jamaica and Rwanda: Jamaica, Colombia, Lesotho and Fiji are the only four countries with more female legislators, senior officials and managers. In Jamaica, women do 59% of all top level jobs. Rwanda is the only country with more female parliamentarians -- women hold 64 seats in its 100-seat parliament.
Where women work more: Only four countries in the world have higher proportion of women at work than men. In Malawi 85% of women work compared to 81% of men. Mozambique, Rwanda and Burundi show similar trend.
Fewest women in workforce: At the opposite end, Algeria, Iran and Syria have the lowest female participation in the labor force with less than one in five women working outside their home.
Jordanian women lose the most: Economic prospects for women deteriorated the most in Jordan. Ranked 140, the country finished third from the bottom, ahead of only Pakistan and Syria. Yet just last year, Jordan was ranked 128 in workplace opportunities.
School for all: Girls and women have equal access to education in only 25 of the 142 countries.
Norway and Singapore best in developed world: Women's wages come closest to men's in Norway and Singapore, but even there it's still at 80%.

So if you read this, you would likely just have your previous suspicions validated. The US has a massive wage gap, compared to most of the developed world. Except, this entire story was based on a survey. The survey was apparently based on the Perceived Inequality by Business Leaders. The actual estimated earned income gap (PPP US$) is 1:1. Women actually earn more than men in Technical and Professional disciplines, at a 1.2:1 ratio. They get paid less as legislators, senior officials, and managers at a .75:1 ratio.


http://www3.weforum.org/docs/GGGR14/GGG ... t_2014.pdf

So, what does this show? That the media sensationalizes stories? That the gap is smaller than previously thought? That people overestimate societal problems?

Ignoring the above questions, I'm quite impressed how much more women get paid for technical and professional jobs, even in developing countries (Especially in Latin American).

[Central Slavia]

A hundred times repeated lie becomes the truth, as a certain shortie, dark-haired wimpy dude said, right after persuading the nation he is one of the leaders of Aryan manhood.

[Ifreann]

So why exactly are the results of the WEF Executive Opinion Survey 2014 being dismissed as imaginary when the rest of their report is taken for fact?

[Turmenista]

The videos of the Alpacas explaining it was less confusing than this.

[The Liberated Territories]

inb4 tumblr feminists...

[Gauthier]

First it's "Rape Culture is fake," and now it's "Gender Gap is fake." Next they'll tell us suffrage is fake and that women were illegally wandering out of the kitchens all this time.

[Roherst]

inb4 tumblr feminists...

seriously, take cover m8

[The Joseon Dynasty]

So why exactly are the results of the WEF Executive Opinion Survey 2014 being dismissed as imaginary when the rest of their report is taken for fact?

It's less that it's 'imaginary' and more that it's a measure of perception rather than reality. Anyway, OP, I think you might want to look at your source more closely. It says clearly that the estimated earned income is capped at $40,000 USD for the purpose of measurement. So your 1:1 ratio is saying "both men and women's estimated earned income exceeds this threshold of $40,000" and not "both men and women's estimated earned income is the same". Also, the estimated earned income is conditioned on labour force participation, so it's not a measure of how much women are earning in total compared to men, which is generally how the wage gap is determined.

[Ifreann]

So why exactly are the results of the WEF Executive Opinion Survey 2014 being dismissed as imaginary when the rest of their report is taken for fact?

It's less that it's 'imaginary' and more that it's a measure of perception rather than reality.

And I see that the title of the thread now reflects that notion.

Anyway, OP, I think you might want to look at your source more closely. It says clearly that the estimated earned income is capped at $40,000 USD for the purpose of measurement. So your 1:1 ratio is saying "both men and women's estimated earned income exceeds this threshold of $40,000" and not "both men and women's estimated earned income is the same". Also, the estimated earned income is conditioned on labour force participation, so it's not a measure of how much women are earning in total compared to men, which is generally how the wage gap is determined.

Silly Joseon, the OP's source isn't the GGGR. It's Reddit. I'm betting he didn't read any of the report, just paraphrased a Reddit post.

[Tubbsalot]

edit: wow i am bad at reading.

[Central Slavia]

First it's "Rape Culture is fake," and now it's "Gender Gap is fake." Next they'll tell us suffrage is fake and that women were illegally wandering out of the kitchens all this time.

First it's "abiogenesis is fake" and now it's "aether theory is fake". Next they'll tell us newton's law of gravitation is fake and things fall to the ground just because they're lazy to float.

[Greed and Death]

There are two gaps a large and a small gap. The large gap is 23% the small gap between 4.8% and 7.1%.The small gap takes into account life decisions, hours worked, and unpaid leave. Which is why there is debate between the numbers 4.8 and 7.1.
For brevity I will cite the wiki on it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_pay ... ted_States

There will always be a pay gap because of biology, women who take maternity leave will almost always find those who filled in for them earned raises.

[Pope Joan]

First it's "Rape Culture is fake," and now it's "Gender Gap is fake." Next they'll tell us suffrage is fake and that women were illegally wandering out of the kitchens all this time.

And remember, we're all past any issues with racism now, and voter inequality is a myth.

[The State of Deseret]

Look. Of course there is a pay gap. There will always be a pay gap. men and Women are biologically different. This causes the kind of work they go into to be different.

Now let's look at this Equal work, equal pay. There is no such thing as equal work. At all. Attitude, Work Ethic, Communication, Job skills and relationships with the boss always differ between each employee. It is not the Employee's problem. it is not the Employer's problem. It is both. The Wage gap exists between man and women. a Wage gap exists between everyone The Poor whites, Middle Class Whites, Educated blacks, Uneducated Blacks, Hard working women, Lazy women, Black and white and Man and women.

There is nothing that can be done without the government saying that each employee must be paid the same by how much they work. which will make it so that people with no communication skills, No Work Ethic and Poor attitude are paid as much as those Who actually excel in these things.

[Espresso and Insanity]

All this shows is that women get paid marginally more in only one field. In the majority of fields, the gender wage gap is still massive, so it's unfair to say that "because women get paid more at specific technical jobs, a gender wage gap doesn't exist!"

[Nadkor]

First it's "Rape Culture is fake," and now it's "Gender Gap is fake." Next they'll tell us suffrage is fake and that women were illegally wandering out of the kitchens all this time.

Frankly, I find the whole idea of "women" to be farfetched. As a 15 year old fedora-wearing neckbeard-coveting internet MRA I'm yet to encounter one in real life.

[Ostroeuropa]

First it's "Rape Culture is fake," and now it's "Gender Gap is fake." Next they'll tell us suffrage is fake and that women were illegally wandering out of the kitchens all this time.

Frankly, I find the whole idea of "women" to be farfetched. As a 15 year old fedora-wearing neckbeard-coveting internet MRA I'm yet to encounter one in real life.

Because unless you take the claims of feminists without question, you're a misogynist.
You can't look into this shit and ask "Whats with the gap being smaller than we're constantly being told once you factor in life decisions?"

And then maybe tell those women "Well, sucks you earn less. But you made worse choices for income maximization than the males. Hey, heres an idea, if you want gender equality, why not give choices to males? That might fix it! Yeh, and then, they might take those choices too and the gap would even out! Oh, but that's misogyny too ;_;"
No, instead we have to agitate for women to get more money. Even though they have more choices and make those choices. But it's obviously gender equality they are after, not just womens rights. That'd be silly.

[Israeli Defense Force]

First it's "Rape Culture is fake," and now it's "Gender Gap is fake."

That's because they both are.

Next you'll complain when people say "sorcery is fake" and "the Earth isn't flat."

[Espresso and Insanity]

First it's "Rape Culture is fake," and now it's "Gender Gap is fake."

That's because they both are.

Next you'll complain when people say "sorcery is fake" and "the Earth isn't flat."

Please, do explain.

[Edward Scissorhands]

A hundred times repeated lie becomes the truth, as a certain shortie, dark-haired wimpy dude said, right after persuading the nation he is one of the leaders of Aryan manhood.

I don't like Adolf Hitler, but he certainly was not wimpy and probably was about average height back then, not really sure about the height thing though to be honest.

[Nadkor]

Frankly, I find the whole idea of "women" to be farfetched. As a 15 year old fedora-wearing neckbeard-coveting internet MRA I'm yet to encounter one in real life.

Because unless you take the claims of feminists without question, you're a misogynist.
You can't look into this shit and ask "Whats with the gap being smaller than we're constantly being told once you factor in life decisions?"

And then maybe tell those women "Well, sucks you earn less. But you made worse choices for income maximization than the males. Hey, heres an idea, if you want gender equality, why not give choices to males? That might fix it! Yeh, and then, they might take those choices too and the gap would even out! Oh, but that's misogyny too ;_;"
No, instead we have to agitate for women to get more money. Even though they have more choices and make those choices. But it's obviously gender equality they are after, not just womens rights. That'd be silly.

Women are paid less than men in almost every field, at pretty much every age, and at any degree of educational attainment. Even right out of university women are paid less than men. And it happens in every single country.

But yes, this couldn't possibly be a systemic or societal issue that should probably be addressed, no. All the stupid women are just making the wrong choices.

[Ostroeuropa]

Because unless you take the claims of feminists without question, you're a misogynist.
You can't look into this shit and ask "Whats with the gap being smaller than we're constantly being told once you factor in life decisions?"

And then maybe tell those women "Well, sucks you earn less. But you made worse choices for income maximization than the males. Hey, heres an idea, if you want gender equality, why not give choices to males? That might fix it! Yeh, and then, they might take those choices too and the gap would even out! Oh, but that's misogyny too ;_;"
No, instead we have to agitate for women to get more money. Even though they have more choices and make those choices. But it's obviously gender equality they are after, not just womens rights. That'd be silly.

Women are paid less than equivalent men in almost every field, at pretty much every age, and at any degree of educational attainment. Even right out of university women are paid less than men. And it happens in every single country.

But yes, this couldn't possibly be a systemic or societal issue that should probably be addressed, no. All the stupid women are just making the wrong choices.

I don't disagree that some part of the wage gap is for misogynistic reasons. Probably between the 4 and 7.
But we can't know how much until we let men make the same choices women are making them compare the difference.
That doesn't seem to be the demand people are making, because they talk about the 30% gap.
Which IS just women making the wrong choices for maximization of income.

Explain to me why the focus on how to help women in this situation, when helping the men will directly help both?
Because it seems sexist and sinister.

Demand the 30%. End up freer and more in control than males.
Demand the 30%, THEN give males choices. End up richer than males.

Free up the males. Demand the 4-7. = Equality.

[Free Ride]

Because unless you take the claims of feminists without question, you're a misogynist.

Misogynists habitually ask too many questions.

You can't look into this shit and ask "Whats with the gap being smaller than we're constantly being told once you factor in life decisions?"

Like that one.

And then maybe tell those women "Well, sucks you earn less. But you made worse choices for income maximization than the males. Hey, heres an idea, if you want gender equality, why not give choices to males?

Prostitution isn't really a fun vocation.

That might fix it! Yeh, and then, they might take those choices too and the gap would even out! Oh, but that's misogyny too ;_;"

Bombarding people with choices is the simplest expression of hate, the more would be the abrupt interruption of a powernap.

No, instead we have to agitate for women to get more money. Even though they have more choices and make those choices. But it's obviously gender equality they are after, not just womens rights. That'd be silly.

It's not worth anyone's while to have money. Why should we exaggerate one kind of success over a simpler life?

[Israeli Defense Force]

That's because they both are.

Next you'll complain when people say "sorcery is fake" and "the Earth isn't flat."

Please, do explain.

All suffer from sensationalist proponents presenting skewed "sources" to back up their agenda or perceived world view, and they shut down any dissent by spouting moronic claims like "hurr ur a misogynist, you're blaming victims, you're fedora-tipping MRA, etc"

Meanwhile there's no evidence of rape being normalized into "rape culture," at least according to the largest anti-sexual violence group in the United States.

Rape is caused not by cultural factors but by the conscious decisions, of a small percentage of the community, to commit a violent crime

https://rainn.org/images/03-2014/WH-Task-Force-RAINN-Recommendations.pdf

And then there's there Association of American University Women tearing apart the Wage Gap myth, like OP did.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christina-hoff-sommers/wage-gap_b_2073804.html

If there are problems, they're isolated. Not culture. Blaming it on some sort of cultural conspiracy is as intellectually dishonest as blaming black people for the crime rate in the United States.

[Free Ride]

Women are paid less than equivalent men in almost every field, at pretty much every age, and at any degree of educational attainment. Even right out of university women are paid less than men. And it happens in every single country.

But yes, this couldn't possibly be a systemic or societal issue that should probably be addressed, no. All the stupid women are just making the wrong choices.

I don't disagree that some part of the wage gap is for misogynistic reasons. Probably between the 4 and 7.
But we can't know how much until we let men make the same choices women are making them compare the difference.
That doesn't seem to be the demand people are making, because they talk about the 30% gap.
Which IS just women making the wrong choices for maximization of income.

Explain to me why the focus on how to help women in this situation, when helping the men will directly help both?

Maximizing income sucks, no man or woman can compete with billionaires.