Technosocialism: could you accept it?

[Eleanor Ritas]

Okay, suppose the automation and robotic technologies advanced so much that, coupled with safe moderate AI, the material needs and services of all living humans can be satisfied, under a system monitored by the best and brightest humans.

Would you support it? What would you do?

I would support it. Here's an article about Technosocialism:

http://www.clydefitchreport.com/2013/02 ... you-think/

[Infected Mushroom]

Yes.

I would no longer have to work.

And can instead focus all of my efforts and time into doing truly meaningful things.

Like practising art and playing video games.

I don't care if I don't have power, don't have more money or more relative wealth over anyone else.

Robots can run everything and I'll completely trust the brightest humans because I'm sure they have our best interests at heart.

[Eleanor Ritas]

Yes.

I would no longer have to work.

And can instead focus all of my efforts and time into doing truly meaningful things.

Like practising art and playing video games.

I don't care if I don't have power, don't have more money or more relative wealth over anyone else.

Robots can run everything and I'll completely trust the brightest humans because I'm sure they have our best interests at heart.

Yay!

[Infected Mushroom]

Yes.

I would no longer have to work.

And can instead focus all of my efforts and time into doing truly meaningful things.

Like practising art and playing video games.

I don't care if I don't have power, don't have more money or more relative wealth over anyone else.

Robots can run everything and I'll completely trust the brightest humans because I'm sure they have our best interests at heart.

Yay!

when do you think it will happen?

Hopefully in my lifetime.

[Eleanor Ritas]

Yay!

when do you think it will happen?

Hopefully in my lifetime.

Well, I hope within thirty years...the problem is, if we don't implement the beginnings of it, in the form of a basic guaranteed income or a negative income tax or something to keep the increasing structurally unemployable masses alive, within the next decade or so, I don't think we'll be be able to stop a collapse.

[Shilya]

I could, but we as a society aren't ready for it. We aren't even ready for the degree of automation we have today.

The notion that everyone has to work for a living is an outdated one already. We can comfortably afford that a certain percentage gets paid just to sit at home doing nothing. We already do just that, after all. But, as things are, we constantly have to pretend that we aren't, or those who still work would flip their shit, and the rest would suffer from idendity damages.

We'd also have to rethink our notions of both property and power. Politics would be nearly useless, the operators would be more powerful than any elected official.

So, there'd be large stones in our path. Time to clear them.

[Mefpan]

The concept of work shouldn't disappear from people's minds by virtue of hyper-advanced technology making it unnecessary to commit to labor yourself. I would much rather prefer if people remembered to do things even if they don't have an omni-tool at hand. And yes, I'm pretty certain the vast majority of people wouldn't bother familiarizing themselves with the basic concepts of how our world works if absolutely every luxury is just provided for them. Suffice to say, the prospect of such a world is more terrifying to me than anything else, especially if you regard knowledge as power.

And I've voiced my opinion on exploiting Artificial Intelligence for the sake of humanity's desire for luxury alone more often than I feel I should have to. In case it's been missed - bad idea. Very bad. No go. Don't do.

[Edward Scissorhands]

the best and brightest humans

No, because that would be unfair to those who aren't that intelligent. Do they not get a say in this?

[Greater Istanistan]

Technosocialism is the way to go. Let's do this thang.

[Rabotnikisoyedinennyye]

No thank you.

[Eleanor Ritas]

The concept of work shouldn't disappear from people's minds by virtue of hyper-advanced technology making it unnecessary to commit to labor yourself. I would much rather prefer if people remembered to do things even if they don't have an omni-tool at hand. And yes, I'm pretty certain the vast majority of people wouldn't bother familiarizing themselves with the basic concepts of how our world works if absolutely every luxury is just provided for them. Suffice to say, the prospect of such a world is more terrifying to me than anything else, especially if you regard knowledge as power.

And I've voiced my opinion on exploiting Artificial Intelligence for the sake of humanity's desire for luxury alone more often than I feel I should have to. In case it's been missed - bad idea. Very bad. No go. Don't do.

This is a salient concern. Talk more about that.

[Kincoboh]

I think I could accept it, I figure its the most logical outcome of where we're going right now.
What I think we should look after, though, is how we're affecting the environment. Will this technosocialism turn the Earth into an ecumenopolis? Will we damage the biosphere more than we already have? I think if we do become less and less dependent on the Earth, we should get off, try to clean up our mess and leave it the hell alone along with anyone who wants to become a hunter-gatherer again

[Eleanor Ritas]

the best and brightest humans

No, because that would be unfair to those who aren't that intelligent. Do they not get a say in this?

When the most important questions will likely take place at a level of philosophical, mathematical, and technical complexity that only the true genius experts of that field will even understand the phrasing of the question, we don't want the 50th percentile person to vote, and they shouldn't want the vote if they're smart enough to understand that they aren't smart enough to understand.

[Novia Soviet Socialist Republic]

I suppose. Not like it would happen in my lifetime though.

[Brillnuck]

Okay, suppose the automation and robotic technologies advanced so much that, coupled with safe moderate AI, the material needs and services of all living humans can be satisfied, under a system monitored by the best and brightest humans.

Would you support it? What would you do?

I would support it. Here's an article about Technosocialism:

http://www.clydefitchreport.com/2013/02 ... you-think/

Yes!
It's inevitable.

[The Liberated Territories]

Nah. I prefer libertarian transhumanism and techno-utopianism instead.

[Mefpan]

The concept of work shouldn't disappear from people's minds by virtue of hyper-advanced technology making it unnecessary to commit to labor yourself. I would much rather prefer if people remembered to do things even if they don't have an omni-tool at hand. And yes, I'm pretty certain the vast majority of people wouldn't bother familiarizing themselves with the basic concepts of how our world works if absolutely every luxury is just provided for them. Suffice to say, the prospect of such a world is more terrifying to me than anything else, especially if you regard knowledge as power.

And I've voiced my opinion on exploiting Artificial Intelligence for the sake of humanity's desire for luxury alone more often than I feel I should have to. In case it's been missed - bad idea. Very bad. No go. Don't do.

This is a salient concern. Talk more about that.

Look, it's probably connected to the way I think.

I'm training to be an industrial mechanic. I enjoy fixing and building machines with my own hands. A world where that's no longer necessary is just horrifying to me. I can imagine all the wondrous luxuries and I'm actually scared because I know myself well enough to say that I personally would never feel as though I'd deserve any of it.

Granted, it will likely be a very long time until machines become capable of repairing themselves no matter what kind of freak damage they sustain, but this pseudo-utopian concept fucking terrifies me. I like the feeling of accomplishment after a job well done. Not having to do a job that would otherwise leave me with a feeling of success...I just can't seem to come to terms with that kind of thought. It sounds so pointless, so empty to just live in such a world.

[Constantinopolis]

Of course I'd support it - enthusiastically and without reservations! - but it's not going to happen.

People have been talking about entirely replacing human labour with machines since the mid-19th century. It hasn't happened yet. We haven't even gotten any closer to it. The more machines we build to replace human labour, the more we find other forms of labour for humans to perform. We're not working any less than we did 50 years ago.

[Shilya]

Look, it's probably connected to the way I think.

Alas, the way you think mixes up some concepts and forgets about other options.

I'm training to be an industrial mechanic. I enjoy fixing and building machines with my own hands. A world where that's no longer necessary is just horrifying to me. I can imagine all the wondrous luxuries and I'm actually scared because I know myself well enough to say that I personally would never feel as though I'd deserve any of it.

Here, we have several concepts mixed up:
a) The notion of personally percieved usefulness
b) The notion of significant change
c) The notion of everything needing to earned

Granted, it will likely be a very long time until machines become capable of repairing themselves no matter what kind of freak damage they sustain, but this pseudo-utopian concept fucking terrifies me. I like the feeling of accomplishment after a job well done. Not having to do a job that would otherwise leave me with a feeling of success...I just can't seem to come to terms with that kind of thought. It sounds so pointless, so empty to just live in such a world.

d) The limiting thought that your current job is the only job well done you can do
e) The limiting thought that accomplishment can only come from jobs
f) The notion that purpose must come from work

I don't think there's a truly limiting factor in any of those. They all stem from the same thing: You define yourself, include your feeling of self-worth, from your job.
Do other things. Make other things, like art. Help people. In short, expand your view of yourself, and your view of what is worthwile.

[Trotskylvania]

Marxist historical materialism in a nutshell. Productivity keeps increasing to the point where the mass employment economy necessary for the sustaining of capitalist relations disappears.

[Margno]

Where's "no, advanced technology won't cause humans to stop being dickheads?" Elysium is the best we can expect.

[Constantinopolis]

Marxist historical materialism in a nutshell. Productivity keeps increasing to the point where the mass employment economy necessary for the sustaining of capitalist relations disappears.

No, it will never disappear of its own accord just through technological advancement alone. Why? Because, if necessary, capitalism can always shift employment to unproductive or even destructive sectors of the economy. The military, for example.

[Jute]

Robots can run everything and I'll completely trust the brightest humans because I'm sure they have our best interests at heart.

This sounds like it could make for some "famous last words" ...
Because obviously the machines could never make an error, be badly programmed or abused by humans who don't have the best interests for society. That could never happen, right?

Where's "no, advanced technology won't cause humans to stop being dickheads?"

Agreed, I would like that option, too.

[Our Governator]

As long as I'm a "brightest human", sure.

[Trotskylvania]

Marxist historical materialism in a nutshell. Productivity keeps increasing to the point where the mass employment economy necessary for the sustaining of capitalist relations disappears.

No, it will never disappear of its own accord just through technological advancement alone. Why? Because, if necessary, capitalism can always shift employment to unproductive or even destructive sectors of the economy. The military, for example.

There comes a point where the robots claim so many jobs that it is no longer feasible to deal with overproduction via ordinary means.