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RESOLVED: Atheist Airman Allowed To Modify Oath

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Yumyumsuppertime
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RESOLVED: Atheist Airman Allowed To Modify Oath

Postby Yumyumsuppertime » Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:01 pm

Source.

An atheist airman at Creech Air Force Base in Nevada was denied reenlistment last month for refusing to take an oath containing “so help me God,” the American Humanist Association said Thursday.

And in a Sept. 2 letter to the inspectors general for the Air Force and Creech, Monica Miller, an attorney with the AHA’s Apignani Humanist Legal Center, said the airman should be allowed to reenlist without having to swear to a deity, and instead given a secular oath. Miller said the AHA is prepared to sue if the airman is not allowed to reenlist.

According to the AHA, the unnamed airman was told Aug. 25 that the Air Force would not accept his contract because he had crossed out the phrase “so help me God.” The airman was told his only options were to sign the religious oath section of the contract without adjustment and recite an oath concluding with “so help me God,” or leave the Air Force, the AHA said.

That is unconstitutional and unacceptable, the AHA said.

“The government cannot compel a nonbeliever to take an oath that affirms the existence of a supreme being,” Miller said. “Numerous cases affirm that atheists have the right to omit theistic language from enlistment or reenlistment contracts.”

Creech officials referred inquiries to Nellis Air Force Base, Nevada. Officials at Nellis referred questions to Air Force public affairs officers at the Pentagon, who had not confirmed the incident by Thursday night.

The AHA’s letter also called attention to a quiet update last year of Air Force rules governing reenlistments, which now require all airmen to swear an oath to God.

Air Force Instruction 36-2606 spells out the active-duty oath of enlistment, which all airmen must take when they enlist or reenlist and ends with “so help me God.” The old version of that AFI included an exception: “Note: Airmen may omit the words ‘so help me God,’ if desired for personal reasons.”

That language was dropped in an Oct. 30, 2013, update to the AFI. The relevant section of that AFI now only lists the active-duty oath of enlistment, without giving airmen any option to choose not to swear an oath to a deity.

“Reciting ‘So help me God’ in the reenlistment and commissioning oaths is a statutory requirement under Title 10 USC 502,” Air Force spokeswoman Rose Richeson said Thursday. AFI 36-2606 “is consistent with the language mandated in 10 USC 502. Paragraph 5.6 [and] was changed in October 2013 to reflect the aforementioned statutory requirement and airmen are no longer authorized to omit the words ‘So help me God.’ ”

The Air Force said it cannot change its AFI to make “so help me God” optional unless Congress changes the statute mandating it.

Miller pointed out that Article VI of the Constitution prohibits requiring religious tests to hold an office or public trust.

“Forcing [the airman] to swear to a supreme being as a condition of his reenlistment is tantamount to a ‘religious test’ and is therefore violative of this constitutional provision as well,” Miller said.

Miller also said that swearing an oath the airman does not believe in would be dishonest.

“This airman shows integrity, commitment to the nation, and respect for religion in standing firm for a secular oath that reflects his true values and intentions,” said Jason Torpy, president of the Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers and a board member of the AHA.


As a theist, I somehow doubt that God really wants people who don't believe to swear by "him". We all have a purpose in life, including atheists, and all have our contributions to make. To refuse this man the ability to re-enlist based upon nothing more than his understandable refusal to say something that he doesn't believe is ludicrous. Does the military really want hypocritical airmen, people who don't take their oaths seriously?

And, of course, there's also the whole "no religious test" bit in the Constitution regarding positions of public trust.

Your thoughts?
Last edited by Yumyumsuppertime on Fri Sep 19, 2014 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Valentir
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Postby Valentir » Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:03 pm

Atheists cannot serve in the God Fearing American Military.

#Godisn'tDead #BringbackChristanity
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Postby Skappola » Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:05 pm

I think this guy is a dick for attempting to challenge the US over something so pointless. He's trying to get the Supreme Court to recognize the obvious violation, and have them take the word "God" out of it. It's a remnant of our ultra-patriotic past, get over it. It's not like they're attempting to convert you.
Last edited by Skappola on Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Benuty » Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:09 pm

Valentir wrote:Atheists cannot serve in the God Fearing American Military.

#Godisn'tDead #BringbackChristanity


Lol, first the U.S is supposed to be secular, and before someone mentions Nietzsche find me someone who didn't still their ideas on metaphysics :P.
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ODMS Babel
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Postby ODMS Babel » Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:09 pm

Skappola wrote:I think this guy is a dick for attempting to challenge the US over something so pointless. He's trying to get the Supreme Court to recognize the obvious violation, and have them take the word "God" out of it. It's a remnant of our ultra-patriotic past, get over it. It's not like they're attempting to convert you.


Our ultra-patriotic past... of October 2013?

Yumyumsuppertime wrote:“Reciting ‘So help me God’ in the reenlistment and commissioning oaths is a statutory requirement under Title 10 USC 502,” Air Force spokeswoman Rose Richeson said Thursday. AFI 36-2606 “is consistent with the language mandated in 10 USC 502. Paragraph 5.6 [and] was changed in October 2013 to reflect the aforementioned statutory requirement and airmen are no longer authorized to omit the words ‘So help me God.’
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Benuty
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Postby Benuty » Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:10 pm

Skappola wrote:I think this guy is a dick for attempting to challenge the US over something so pointless. He's trying to get the Supreme Court to recognize the obvious violation, and have them take the word "God" out of it. It's a remnant of our ultra-patriotic past, get over it. It's not like they're attempting to convert you.

It still violates the fact congress recognized a motto (among other things) when they were clearly told not to.
Last edited by Hashem 13.8 billion years ago
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Yumyumsuppertime
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Postby Yumyumsuppertime » Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:11 pm

Skappola wrote:I think this guy is a dick for attempting to challenge the US over something so pointless. He's trying to get the Supreme Court to recognize the obvious violation, and have them take the word "God" out of it. It's a remnant of our ultra-patriotic past, get over it. It's not like they're attempting to convert you.


So you're saying that you're comfortable with having people in the military who are willing to swear oaths to things that they don't believe?

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The Scientific States
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Postby The Scientific States » Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:11 pm

Well, that's silly. He should be allowed to re-enlist.
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Postby Dajing (Ancient) » Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:13 pm

Yumyumsuppertime wrote:So you're saying that you're comfortable with having people in the military who are willing to swear oaths to things that they don't believe?

Otherwise you wouldn't have a military, and that would probably be a good thing.

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Postby Anglo-California » Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:13 pm

The military is supposed to swear an oath to the Constitution.
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Postby Valentir » Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:13 pm

Benuty wrote:
Valentir wrote:Atheists cannot serve in the God Fearing American Military.

#Godisn'tDead #BringbackChristanity


Lol, first the U.S is supposed to be secular, and before someone mentions Nietzsche find me someone who didn't still their ideas on metaphysics :P.

The United States is a nation founded on Christian Beliefs, sir. "All Men are created equal under GOD..."

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ODMS Babel
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Postby ODMS Babel » Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:14 pm

Let's compromise.
The Air Force can maintain "so help me God", but the Navy has to say "so help me Cthulhu".


Or the United States government can follow its own constitution. But that's less fun.
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Postby Benuty » Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:15 pm

Valentir wrote:
Benuty wrote:
Lol, first the U.S is supposed to be secular, and before someone mentions Nietzsche find me someone who didn't still their ideas on metaphysics :P.

The United States is a nation founded on Christian Beliefs, sir. "All Men are created equal under GOD..."

Explain why the founders took a deistic approach, and allowed for a pluralistic secular country?
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Valentir
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Postby Valentir » Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:16 pm

Benuty wrote:
Valentir wrote:The United States is a nation founded on Christian Beliefs, sir. "All Men are created equal under GOD..."

Explain why the founders took a deistic approach, and allowed for a pluralistic secular country?

Well, you see, that is a bunch of BS spread by people who Hate America. Do you Hate America? I don't.

Alrighty, I'm done. This is stupid, but only in Murica would this happen.

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Postby Dajing (Ancient) » Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:16 pm

Benuty wrote:Explain why the founders took a deistic approach, and allowed for a pluralistic secular country?

Because the were deists. There, you see? Was that so hard?

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Postby Tmutarakhan » Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:16 pm

Valentir wrote:
Benuty wrote:
Lol, first the U.S is supposed to be secular, and before someone mentions Nietzsche find me someone who didn't still their ideas on metaphysics :P.

The United States is a nation founded on Christian Beliefs, sir. "All Men are created equal under GOD..."

That is a dishonest falsification.
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Postby Yumyumsuppertime » Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:17 pm

Valentir wrote:
Benuty wrote:
Lol, first the U.S is supposed to be secular, and before someone mentions Nietzsche find me someone who didn't still their ideas on metaphysics :P.

The United States is a nation founded on Christian Beliefs, sir. "All Men are created equal under GOD..."


No.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights...."

It does not mention which god, or whose god they refer to. There is a mention of "Nature's God", but that's more of a deistic concept than a Christian one. They specifically left out any mention of Christianity in the Declaration and the Constitution because they didn't want to favor one religious belief over another, having seen the excessive violence that occurred in Europe as a result of attempting to secure the dominance of one religion after another.

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Postby Scomagia » Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:17 pm

Skappola wrote:I think this guy is a dick for attempting to challenge the US over something so pointless. He's trying to get the Supreme Court to recognize the obvious violation, and have them take the word "God" out of it. It's a remnant of our ultra-patriotic past, get over it. It's not like they're attempting to convert you.

It isn't pointless. Stop trivializing things because they don't pose an issue for you. A secular government should not force people to acknowledge any religious being or thing.
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Postby Mavorpen » Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:17 pm

Valentir wrote:
Benuty wrote:
Lol, first the U.S is supposed to be secular, and before someone mentions Nietzsche find me someone who didn't still their ideas on metaphysics :P.

The United States is a nation founded on Christian Beliefs, sir. "All Men are created equal under GOD..."

Almost gave into this bait, but then I read your "About me" in your sig.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

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Postby Anglo-California » Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:18 pm

Yumyumsuppertime wrote:
Valentir wrote:The United States is a nation founded on Christian Beliefs, sir. "All Men are created equal under GOD..."


No.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights...."

It does not mention which god, or whose god they refer to. There is a mention of "Nature's God", but that's more of a deistic concept than a Christian one. They specifically left out any mention of Christianity in the Declaration and the Constitution because they didn't want to favor one religious belief over another, having seen the excessive violence that occurred in Europe as a result of attempting to secure the dominance of one religion after another.


Also a few of them viewed Christianity as dangerous to muh freedoms.
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Postby Benuty » Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:18 pm

Dajing wrote:
Benuty wrote:Explain why the founders took a deistic approach, and allowed for a pluralistic secular country?

Because the were deists. There, you see? Was that so hard?

:palm: Because I was totally asking for an explanation from someone else you go, and repeat what I said.

Thanks for the useless, and irrelevant comment.
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Valentir
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Postby Valentir » Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:18 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
Valentir wrote:The United States is a nation founded on Christian Beliefs, sir. "All Men are created equal under GOD..."

Almost gave into this bait, but then I read your "About me" in your sig.

Ah, nice to know there are people who can still read.

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Postby Scomagia » Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:19 pm

Valentir wrote:
Benuty wrote:
Lol, first the U.S is supposed to be secular, and before someone mentions Nietzsche find me someone who didn't still their ideas on metaphysics :P.

The United States is a nation founded on Christian Beliefs, sir. "All Men are created equal under GOD..."

It isn't. See Treaty of Tripoli. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli
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Benuty
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Postby Benuty » Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:19 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
Valentir wrote:The United States is a nation founded on Christian Beliefs, sir. "All Men are created equal under GOD..."

Almost gave into this bait, but then I read your "About me" in your sig.

Thankfully I had, yet I was merely bored.
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Benuty
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Postby Benuty » Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:19 pm

Scomagia wrote:
Valentir wrote:The United States is a nation founded on Christian Beliefs, sir. "All Men are created equal under GOD..."

It isn't. See Treaty of Tripoli. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli

They weren't being serious.
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