Pride in the British Empire

[White Spider]

Looks like the majority of us Brits are proud of the British Empire :

http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/07/26/bri ... ts20140727

By three to one, British people think the British Empire is something to be proud of rather than ashamed of – they also tend to think it left its colonies better off, and a third would like it to still exist

Britain has long found it difficult to evaluate its former empire. Imperial nostalgia on television has been shamed by historians, and modern prime ministers have expressed ‘deep sorrow’ for Britain’s role in slavery – but they have also called on British people to celebrate the legacy of the Empire.

Among the British public, feelings tend to be positive. A new YouGov survey finds that most think the British Empire is more something to be proud of (59%) rather than ashamed of (19%). 23% don't know. Young people are least likely to feel pride over shame when it comes to the Empire, though about half (48%) of 18-24 year olds do. In comparison, about two-thirds (65%) of over 60s feel mostly proud.

Economically, the British Empire invested in infrastructure, established trading routes and installed institutions – but it also extracted resources, oversaw famines and in some cases left behind instability. Though many (36%) are unsure, British people do tend to think that, overall, former British colonies are now better off for having been part of the empire, by 49-15%.

A third of British people (34%) also say they would like it if Britain still had an empire. Under half (45%) say they would not like the Empire to exist today. 20% don’t know.

The Commonwealth Games in Glasgow this year are the latest reminder of the British Empire, and of a determination to present its legacy as constructive. YouGov also asked which countries British people would especially like to do well at the events, with Australia, New Zealand and Canada being most favoured.

Do you think they're right to be proud of it?

I am proud of all the good we brought to the world and it's hard not to feel pride in a nation having that kind of unbroken record for empire size. There have been some negatives but ultimately this all boils down to "well what did the Romans British ever do for us?"

[Lalaki]

Colonization is not good for the colonized.

Now, some former colonies have been successful. The United States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand. But these are exceptions, not the rule. Look at certain regions of Africa, certain parts of the Middle East, India, etc.

[Estruia]

Looks like the majority of us Brits are proud of the British Empire :

http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/07/26/bri ... ts20140727

By three to one, British people think the British Empire is something to be proud of rather than ashamed of – they also tend to think it left its colonies better off, and a third would like it to still exist

Britain has long found it difficult to evaluate its former empire. Imperial nostalgia on television has been shamed by historians, and modern prime ministers have expressed ‘deep sorrow’ for Britain’s role in slavery – but they have also called on British people to celebrate the legacy of the Empire.

Among the British public, feelings tend to be positive. A new YouGov survey finds that most think the British Empire is more something to be proud of (59%) rather than ashamed of (19%). 23% don't know. Young people are least likely to feel pride over shame when it comes to the Empire, though about half (48%) of 18-24 year olds do. In comparison, about two-thirds (65%) of over 60s feel mostly proud.

Economically, the British Empire invested in infrastructure, established trading routes and installed institutions – but it also extracted resources, oversaw famines and in some cases left behind instability. Though many (36%) are unsure, British people do tend to think that, overall, former British colonies are now better off for having been part of the empire, by 49-15%.

A third of British people (34%) also say they would like it if Britain still had an empire. Under half (45%) say they would not like the Empire to exist today. 20% don’t know.

The Commonwealth Games in Glasgow this year are the latest reminder of the British Empire, and of a determination to present its legacy as constructive. YouGov also asked which countries British people would especially like to do well at the events, with Australia, New Zealand and Canada being most favoured.

Do you think they're right to be proud of it?

I am proud of all the good we brought to the world and it's hard not to feel pride in a nation having that kind of unbroken record for empire size. There have been some negatives but ultimately this all boils down to "well what did the Romans British ever do for us?"

Yes, be proud of rampant resource (both natural and human) exploitation that lasted hundreds of years. Better yet, be proud of the fact that the British Empire left their former colonies (aside from Westernized ones like the US, Canada, Australia, etc.) in a better state to be even further exploited for their natural resources and human labor! HIP HIP, HOORAY!

[White Spider]

Better yet, be proud of the fact that the British Empire left their former colonies (aside from Westernized ones like the US, Canada, Australia, etc.) in a better state to be even further exploited for their natural resources and human labor! HIP HIP, HOORAY!

Not seeing it. Can you elaborate?

[Lalaki]

Colonization is not good for the colonized.

Now, some former colonies have been successful. The United States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand. But these are exceptions, not the rule. Look at certain regions of Africa, certain parts of the Middle East, India, etc.

Also, don't forget that the native cultures didn't fare well against the North Americans (yes, Canada did conflict with the Native Americans at times), British Australia, and so on. That was bad in and of itself. But, in places where native culture still survived, colonization had worse results.

[White Spider]

Colonization is not good for the colonized.

Now, some former colonies have been successful. The United States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand. But these are exceptions, not the rule. Look at certain regions of Africa, certain parts of the Middle East, India, etc.

Also, don't forget that the native cultures didn't fare well against the North Americans (yes, Canada did conflict with the Native Americans at times), British Australia, and so on. That was bad in and of itself. But, in places where native culture still survived, colonization had worse results.

Didn't the vast majority of that occur when they were acting independently of Britain?

[Jamjai]

oh, I bet they would like india back

[Dumb Ideologies]

We were the best at playing a fairly atrocious game. Britain redeemed itself in the fight against the Nazis - that's a much better thing to be proud of.

[Stormhound]

Colonization is not good for the colonized.

Now, some former colonies have been successful. The United States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand. But these are exceptions, not the rule. Look at certain regions of Africa, certain parts of the Middle East, India, etc.

Yes, because widow burning was such a good thing.

I'm not saying the British Empire was perfect, but it did do some good things. In the end, it's good that the nations gained independence, since the Empire had outlived it's purpose.

[Estruia]

Better yet, be proud of the fact that the British Empire left their former colonies (aside from Westernized ones like the US, Canada, Australia, etc.) in a better state to be even further exploited for their natural resources and human labor! HIP HIP, HOORAY!

Not seeing it. Can you elaborate?

India is a prime example. The British Empire, for hundreds of years, exploited the natural resources of the Sub-continent, exploited the abundant labor (the people) and ruled over one of the most rich cultures with an Iron fist. Fast-forward to the present day, shall we? India faces a future of exploitation by every other Developed state, for their cheap labor costs. The Indian people are paid pennies in comparison to what workers paid in the US, Canada, the UK, Europe in general, etc. are paid.

Indian men and women both slave away in sweat shops, factories and everything in-between, because the British Empire set up the Colonial system that directly led to the state India is in today. Yes, they are a rising economic power, but they are rising at the cost of their Environment, their Poor and their disadvantaged, all thanks to the oh-so lovely British Empire.

[Margno]

My first post was about how we should be proud of the British empire! Of course I was impersonating a seventeenth century loyalist at the time...

[Pied Noirs]

Also, don't forget that the native cultures didn't fare well against the North Americans (yes, Canada did conflict with the Native Americans at times), British Australia, and so on. That was bad in and of itself. *But, in places where native culture still survived, colonization had worse results.*

What about New Zealand? The Native culture is still going strong there, and I can't think of anything bad they Kiwis have done.

Except maybe splitting the atom, that might have lead indirectly to the Cold War...

[Lalaki]

Also, don't forget that the native cultures didn't fare well against the North Americans (yes, Canada did conflict with the Native Americans at times), British Australia, and so on. That was bad in and of itself. But, in places where native culture still survived, colonization had worse results.

Didn't the vast majority of that occur when they were acting independently of Britain?

The bottom line is, successful former colonies tend to have the westernized culture replace the native culture. And while it's not good to dwell on the past (considering how peaceful Canada and Australia are), it was not right for this replacement to occur, with or without help from Britain.

[White Spider]

oh, I bet they would like india back

Not really. That place is a fucking nightmare.

[Lalaki]

Also, don't forget that the native cultures didn't fare well against the North Americans (yes, Canada did conflict with the Native Americans at times), British Australia, and so on. That was bad in and of itself. *But, in places where native culture still survived, colonization had worse results.*

What about New Zealand? The Native culture is still going strong there, and I can't think of anything bad they Kiwis have done.

Except maybe splitting the atom, that might have lead indirectly to the Cold War...

I'm not educated enough on New Zealand culture to have an opinion. But is the Native culture there the norm?

[Imperializt Russia]

Colonization is not good for the colonized.

Now, some former colonies have been successful. The United States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand. But these are exceptions, not the rule. Look at certain regions of Africa, certain parts of the Middle East, India, etc.

These are the result of cultural issues combined with colonialism as a mindset. Arbitrary countries were drawn up in parts of Africa, encompassing large tribal areas, straddling them and blending them.
When the colonies were disbanded, the empires left and these became independent countries, you suddenly had power vacuums as widely differing and often hostile ethnic and other groups suddenly had to run a country.

The argument that these colonies were "better off" as imperial colonies has some merit, but not merit that is acceptable today. Imperial security forces were effective at suppressing these ethnic tensions, but it was done via overwhelming firepower and sometimes ethnic cleansing. Colonies were essentially under constant military occupation.
Critically, the support that the empires gave to colonies was immense. Resources were stripped and slaves exported, but in doing so, we gave technological advancement and built huge infrastructure.
China is basically doing exactly the same today in central and southern Africa - in exchange for access to resources, mostly minerals, they build a shitload of roads, heavy rail, seaports and other infrastructure. To the point that in some countries, they prefer to trade in Chinese yuan than USD.

[Pied Noirs]

I'm not educated enough on New Zealand culture to have an opinion. But is the Native culture there the norm?

No, about 75% of the people self-identify as European, with about 15% as Maori, although Maori culture is much more known, the language is taught in schools (and there are Maori language only schools), half the national anthem is in the language, some of the most notable tv icons are Maori etc.

[United Kingdom of Kent]

I'm fairly proud of the British Empire, of course there are points in it I' am not so proud of in our actions. However as a whole I'm proud what our nation achieved and feel that in the majority of countries we were more a force of good than bad. To be honest I think a lot of the ex-colonies in my opinion would be far better off having remained under British rule.

[Fjormark]

I think the British should be proud of their empire, however they should understand the atrocities some of the natives endured by the British of the country they were colonising. I think British colonisation had good and negative impacts on many cultural populations.

[Lalaki]

Colonization is not good for the colonized.

Now, some former colonies have been successful. The United States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand. But these are exceptions, not the rule. Look at certain regions of Africa, certain parts of the Middle East, India, etc.

These are the result of cultural issues combined with colonialism as a mindset. Arbitrary countries were drawn up in parts of Africa, encompassing large tribal areas, straddling them and blending them.
When the colonies were disbanded, the empires left and these became independent countries, you suddenly had power vacuums as widely differing and often hostile ethnic and other groups suddenly had to run a country.

I think the topic of power vacuums is one that can be seen in Iraq and Libya, where western powers committed themselves to an action but did not continue to aid after.

[United Kingdom of Kent]

These are the result of cultural issues combined with colonialism as a mindset. Arbitrary countries were drawn up in parts of Africa, encompassing large tribal areas, straddling them and blending them.
When the colonies were disbanded, the empires left and these became independent countries, you suddenly had power vacuums as widely differing and often hostile ethnic and other groups suddenly had to run a country.

I think the topic of power vacuums is one that can be seen in Iraq and Libya, where western powers committed themselves to an action but did not continue to aid after.

I'd have to disagree there the fall of the goverment established after colonial rule in Iraq at least had far more to do with the actions of the King and government established there, which at the time was the best choice, and which lasted 39 years until they begun to make bad policies.

[Lalaki]

I think the topic of power vacuums is one that can be seen in Iraq and Libya, where western powers committed themselves to an action but did not continue to aid after.

I'd have to disagree there the fall of the goverment established after colonial rule in Iraq at least had far more to do with the actions of the King and government established there, which at the time was the best choice, and which lasted 39 years until they begun to make bad policies.

I was actually referring to the US withdrawing a few years ago...

[United States of Natan]

The only positive thing about it is that it is the reason America exists. thats it. in the words of Ron Swanson "History began July 4, 1776. anything before that was a mistake."

[Imperializt Russia]

These are the result of cultural issues combined with colonialism as a mindset. Arbitrary countries were drawn up in parts of Africa, encompassing large tribal areas, straddling them and blending them.
When the colonies were disbanded, the empires left and these became independent countries, you suddenly had power vacuums as widely differing and often hostile ethnic and other groups suddenly had to run a country.

I think the topic of power vacuums is one that can be seen in Iraq and Libya, where western powers committed themselves to an action but did not continue to aid after.

History has essentially repeated itself, yes.

[Valentir]

I'm proud of the British Empire. We were the best at the game and made some very huge achievements in medicine, science, and law. We left behind a legacy that is bitter-sweet. For all of our advancements and pragmatic expansion, we exploited millions and committed a fair amount of atrocities. As Stannis Baratheon puts it, "A good act does not wash out the bad, nor bad the good." We have a lot to be proud of, but we also have a lot to be ashamed of.