A question for socialists

[Deutsches Heilige Land]

Hello.

My question is this: why do you disagree with class collaboration? Why instead do you wish to destroy the bourgeois ? When both classes can be united to work together for the common good of the community.

Promote a patriotic, nationalist culture where instead of mere employees, workers are viewed as equal to their employers based on a nationalist point of view?

Where instead of exploiting them, they are treated with respect, and given a fair share of their dues.

And where the owner is encouraged to do business locally and stimulate the local economy, transparent accounts?

I agree this sounds unrealistically Utopian, however, isn't what Marx envisaged practically reliant on a sudden turning point where every human suddenly accrues mass benevolence?

Just asking why some of you disagree with class collaboration.

[Silent Majority]

The problem with class collaboration is similar to the problem with the idea of benevolent dictatorships.

The idea behind both is the same: that even though someone(or in the case of class collaboration a group of someones) should hold a position of higher status and power than others, but don't worry because they'll play fair and in no way take advantage of that disparity in power.

It's a load of garbage, power only retreats in the face of more power. And class collaboration functioned like this in practice too, the bourgeois levied the power of the supposedly neutral state in both Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy to their advantage, and to the detriment of the working class.

[Jinwoy]

I don't.
I fully agree with class collaboration. To a point.
Maybe there's some underlying metaphor; to destroy a class, maybe we just have to destroy the idea of a class - destroy the idea of separation. I'm sure you'll find that socialism will follow.

[Korouse]

Your utopia sounds more logical than Marx's.

[Renewed Dissonance]

...where instead of mere employees, workers are viewed as equal to their employers...?

Because the man who signs my paycheck, or, more importantly, can stop doing so essentially at will, is not my friend. He is my master.

He might be the most gentle, moral, decent, and great guy who ever lived. He is still my master.

*shrug*

[Yanalia]

The interests of the capitalist class and the labouring class are diametrically opposed.

[The Grim Reaper]

Not commenting on the rest, because I'm not a Marxist - but nationalism is a terrible ideology and should be eradicated.

[Korouse]

Your utopia sounds more logical than Marx's.

Oh, and also, are you centre-right economically mr. Op?

[The divided]

Not commenting on the rest, because I'm not a Marxist - but nationalism is a terrible ideology and should be eradicated.

yeah, good luck with that.

[Pandeeria]

Good riddance to pure Socialism.

[The Soviet Workers]

Comrade, it does sound incredibly utopian.
The problem with your ideology (not insulting in any way, so please do not take it personally) is that it is based on nationalism. Nationalism, when implemented in the 21st century, leads to Nazism. This is because the workers and the bourgeois cannot be united due to the fact that most likely the workers or the bourgeois or not of the same nationality. And because of this difference, a paradigm of superiority would appear, leading to racism and eventually nazism.

I do not believe in the complete destruction of the "class enemy", as that is more Communist than Socialist. However, I do think that it is apparent that the bourgeois (who often are not very well educated and are plainly arrogant and have a cavalier wind to them just to show off their wealth) often abuse and trample on the rights of the workers and the everyday people. This can be seen in Edwardian England, Imperial China, and even in today's USA.
To better understand my horrid explanation, I suggest you read the book "An inspector Calls" by J.B.Priestly. It is a perfect personification of this issue.

Thank you,
The Soviet Workers

[Korouse]

Comrade, it does sound incredibly utopian.
The problem with your ideology (not insulting in any way, so please do not take it personally) is that it is based on nationalism. Nationalism, when implemented in the 21st century, leads to Nazism. This is because the workers and the bourgeois cannot be united due to the fact that most likely the workers or the bourgeois or not of the same nationality. And because of this difference, a paradigm of superiority would appear, leading to racism and eventually nazism.

I do not believe in the complete destruction of the "class enemy", as that is more Communist than Socialist. However, I do think that it is apparent that the bourgeois (who often are not very well educated and are plainly arrogant and have a cavalier wind to them just to show off their wealth) often abuse and trample on the rights of the workers and the everyday people. This can be seen in Edwardian England, Imperial China, and even in today's USA.
To better understand my horrid explanation, I suggest you read the book "An inspector Calls" by J.B.Priestly. It is a perfect personification of this issue.

Thank you,
The Soviet Workers

The first paragraph is utter bullshit. I'm a nationalist. I fucking hate nazism with every inch of my life.

[Quilavaland]

Hello.

My question is this: why do you disagree with class collaboration? Why instead do you wish to destroy the bourgeois ? When both classes can be united to work together for the common good of the community.

Promote a patriotic, nationalist culture where instead of mere employees, workers are viewed as equal to their employers based on a nationalist point of view?

Where instead of exploiting them, they are treated with respect, and given a fair share of their dues.

And where the owner is encouraged to do business locally and stimulate the local economy, transparent accounts?

I agree this sounds unrealistically Utopian, however, isn't what Marx envisaged practically reliant on a sudden turning point where every human suddenly accrues mass benevolence?

Just asking why some of you disagree with class collaboration.

I don't disagree with it. In fact I believe there should be no "classes", we should just be united in bettering life for everyone.

[Pandeeria]

Hello.

My question is this: why do you disagree with class collaboration? Why instead do you wish to destroy the bourgeois ? When both classes can be united to work together for the common good of the community.

Promote a patriotic, nationalist culture where instead of mere employees, workers are viewed as equal to their employers based on a nationalist point of view?

Where instead of exploiting them, they are treated with respect, and given a fair share of their dues.

And where the owner is encouraged to do business locally and stimulate the local economy, transparent accounts?

I agree this sounds unrealistically Utopian, however, isn't what Marx envisaged practically reliant on a sudden turning point where every human suddenly accrues mass benevolence?

Just asking why some of you disagree with class collaboration.

I don't disagree with it. In fact I believe there should be no "classes", we should just be united in bettering life for everyone.

No.

[The Serbian Empire]

Your utopia sounds more logical than Marx's.

And that's the problem that pulled me from stuff like Stalinism and Marxism. There are far more logical systems that can be attempted than to destroy the wealthy.

[Korouse]

Your utopia sounds more logical than Marx's.

And that's the problem that pulled me from stuff like Stalinism and Marxism. There are far more logical systems that can be attempted than to destroy the wealthy.

No, destroy the wealthy because they're obviously the source of all my problems.

[Deutsches Heilige Land]

Here I will throw another variable.

My family and I are bourgeois, We are "aristocrats ".in the sense that We own profitable businesses and invest in other companies and employ workers etc.

My father's policy has always been one of benevolence. He is constantly stressing the need to promote cooperation, citing that as workers and employers were both born unclothed and hungry - and that this should never be true again.

My father has often allocated capital funds for workers to improve their healthcare options and give them opportunities to further their education.

Now, obviously my family cannot ensure every single manager of ours and such are pursuing a policy of benefiting everyone as much as possible, but Tue point is, that with our family business stimulating local economy and creating jobs, while at the same time encouraging it's employees to pursue higher form of education - to me this is a perfect example of class collaboration. This is why I brought up the point.

I examined our practice and could not find a reason why anything done is wrong.

And no, we're not cosmopolitans, We only hire the ethnic citizens of whatever nation We have business in. For example We only hire German people in Germany, Greeks on Greece etc

[Maineiacs]

Hello.

My question is this: why do you disagree with class collaboration? Why instead do you wish to destroy the bourgeois ? When both classes can be united to work together for the common good of the community.

Promote a patriotic, nationalist culture where instead of mere employees, workers are viewed as equal to their employers based on a nationalist point of view?

Where instead of exploiting them, they are treated with respect, and given a fair share of their dues.

And where the owner is encouraged to do business locally and stimulate the local economy, transparent accounts?

I agree this sounds unrealistically Utopian, however, isn't what Marx envisaged practically reliant on a sudden turning point where every human suddenly accrues mass benevolence?

Just asking why some of you disagree with class collaboration.

Did you just seriously ask socialists why they don't switch to supporting fascism (which is what I assume you support) instead? I'm not even a socialist and I think that's a ridiculous thing to ask.

[Korouse]

Here I will throw another variable.

My family and I are bourgeois, We are "aristocrats ".in the sense that We own profitable businesses and invest in other companies and employ workers etc.

My father's policy has always been one of benevolence. He is constantly stressing the need to promote cooperation, citing that as workers and employers were both born unclothed and hungry - and that this should never be true again.

My father has often allocated capital funds for workers to improve their healthcare options and give them opportunities to further their education.

Now, obviously my family cannot ensure every single manager of ours and such are pursuing a policy of benefiting everyone as much as possible, but Tue point is, that with our family business stimulating local economy and creating jobs, while at the same time encouraging it's employees to pursue higher form of education - to me this is a perfect example of class collaboration. This is why I brought up the point.

I examined our practice and could not find a reason why anything done is wrong.

And no, we're not cosmopolitans, We only hire the ethnic citizens of whatever nation We have business in. For example We only hire German people in Germany, Greeks on Greece etc

Not only would that business policy improve the worker's life, it'd improve their efficiency at their job if I'm correct.

[Korouse]

I love how people are coming in here saying nationalism equals fascism. Seriously, go read a fucking book. There's something called National Liberalism.

[Deutsches Heilige Land]

I love how people are coming in here saying nationalism equals fascism. Seriously, go read a fucking book. There's something called National Liberalism.

For the sake of honesty, my entire family are essentially National Socialists except for me.

Im not exactly a fascist but i put myself somewhere around that area.

[Korouse]

I love how people are coming in here saying nationalism equals fascism. Seriously, go read a fucking book. There's something called National Liberalism.

For the sake of honesty, my entire family are essentially National Socialists except for me.

Im not exactly a fascist but i put myself somewhere around that area.

That doesn't quite mean your family supports Adolf Hitler, mainly because Hitler wasn't a national socialist...

[Revanchism]

Now why would the sheep seek collaboration with the wolf?
Although I suppose that isn't the best analogy, considering that most socialists support the dismantling of the power structure that holds the "wolves" above them and thus making the "wolves" into "sheep"(Or the other way around depending on which way you like to look at things).

[Deutsches Heilige Land]

For the sake of honesty, my entire family are essentially National Socialists except for me.

Im not exactly a fascist but i put myself somewhere around that area.

That doesn't quite mean your family supports Adolf Hitler, mainly because Hitler wasn't a national socialist...

I'm sorry but I don't know what Hitler has to do with anything so far …

[Revanchism]

That doesn't quite mean your family supports Adolf Hitler, mainly because Hitler wasn't a national socialist...

I'm sorry but I don't know what Hitler has to do with anything so far …

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