'Plastic' Cultural Identities

[Chucky Arla]

The classic examples of these would probably be the stereotypical Irish American on St Patricks day or someone claiming Sioux or Cherokee cultural identity because of a distant ancestor.

What are your feelings on such claims and identities?

Me? I don't mind if someone claiming identical cultural identity does in fact have an understanding and appreciation for that identity. When their version is a parody however and is applied to the 'original' ethnic group I find it extremely distasteful.

[SuperFruitland]

Hmm...you again. Might as well reply to this...

I honestly don't care as long as it doesn't directly negatively affect me, or negatively represents the culture being identified.

[Chucky Arla]

Hmm...you again.

Well there's an uncalled for start to a post.

[Greater-London]

What do you mean by "original" ethnic group?

As for people who are have "plastic" cultural identities I don't actually care; their free to identify as anything they want and if their ignorant of the culture and history of their "claimed" cultural identity well they probably aren't that different from most of the people who actually live there.

I refrain from using terms like "Plastic Paddy" because in most instances it just shows how people have a disconnection with the cultural identity they feel is there's which is sad. For instance an Irish friend of mine grew up in England from the age of 1, has an English accent his frames of reference are 'English' or 'British' but he feels Irish because that's where he was born and where his family come from. He gets hit with the "plastic paddy" tag quite a lot especially when he goes to Ireland which I know grates on him.

[Mefpan]

I harbor sympathies for what history books describe pre-World Wars German culture to have been like and equally like what I've seen of Japanese culture that somehow trickled all the way over to Europe.

However, I refrain from identifying myself as Japanese - I have no close biological relation to the people of Japan (sadly), I have not grown up there (sadly), I do not speak the Japanese language (sadly) and I am pretty certain that I know very little about actual Japanese culture.

On occasion I declare myself Prussian, which is usually meant as a joke and I can probably get away with it, given that I'm a German, the Prussians were Germans and that my ancestors very technically lived in Prussia just like I do nowadays. And I suppose I fit the 'industrious, serious, humorless' stereotype in real life quite well, with heavy emphasis on the latter two aspects.

But eh, those 'once-a-year' pub patriots you allude to are not of my liking. Wonderful, you have an inkling of Irish blood. Stop using it as a reason to get piss drunk and stop perpetuating that stereotype, thank you very much.

Did I mention that I can be hypocritical?

[The Serbian Empire]

I have been accused of being a plastic Native American, but I don't exactly look the party as my blood is diluted to one-eighth, but I have ample exposure and developed a heavy Yooper accent from returning to the Rez where my maternal grandma was born on multiple vacations. She was half Obijwe and half French-Canadian (the man who was the father was a man with the last name of Perreault). The problem is that I probably can't speak of the struggles on the Rez as much as those who lived through it as my ties there as a permanent feature were cut some 85 years ago.

[Chucky Arla]

What do you mean by "original" ethnic group?

The one which spawned a diaspora variant.

He gets hit with the "plastic paddy" tag quite a lot especially when he goes to Ireland which I know grates on him.

If he is giving them no reason for this then they're being dicks to him.

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It's not something I feel personally affected by since I'm a fourth generation American with Norwegian, Irish, Welsh, Polish and Italian blood and I'm really nothing more than "some fucking white guy."

That said, I really love German culture but I don't pretend to actually be a part of it. Though I did get a German language tattoo once but with all the white guys with Chinese tattoos how bad is that really?

[Greater-London]

1. The one which spawned a diaspora variant.

2. If he is giving them no reason for this then they're being dicks to him.

1. Oh I see; well to me the distinction is meaningless. Why should the despora be considered different? If they have the same understanding of the "original" culture, speak the language and behave the same way why does it matter if they come from a different place?

2. No, its to do with cheering on the Irish football team or talking to people about Gaelic Football. Also expressing views like wanting to see a united Ireland or enjoying Irish language or culture. As he sounds English he does at first seem out of place.

[Greater-London]

That said, I really love German culture but I don't pretend to actually be a part of it. Though I did get a German language tattoo once but with all the white guys with Chinese tattoos how bad is that really?

Not bad at all. To be fair I don't see the problem of someone using characters or designs from a culture that isn't the property of the ethnic group it came from.

[Ifreann]

Claiming Irishness based on long distant ancestry comes off as rather inauthentic, but it's good for tourism. Quite the dilemma.

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Claiming Irishness based on long distant ancestry comes off as rather inauthentic, but it's good for tourism. Quite the dilemma.

I wonder if the whole "green beer" thing is something that is totally mocked in Ireland.

[Greater-London]

I wonder if the whole "green beer" thing is something that is totally mocked in Ireland.

Even if its something the Irish do themselves why would you drink it? it looks absolutely foul.

[White Spider]

I don't really care about benign plastic paddy types. It's the ones that send guns and money to murder people in the UK and Ireland that piss me off. Fuck those guys.

[Ifreann]

Claiming Irishness based on long distant ancestry comes off as rather inauthentic, but it's good for tourism. Quite the dilemma.

I wonder if the whole "green beer" thing is something that is totally mocked in Ireland.

Can't say I've ever encountered green beer, but we do joke at length about how Americans dye their rivers green, whereas the Liffey is green all on its own.

[Greater-London]

I don't really care about benign plastic paddy types. It's the ones that send guns and money to murder people in the UK and Ireland that piss me off. Fuck those guys.

Yeah but only "fuck those guys" because they help to murder and intimidate. That's something detestable anyway whether your a "plastic paddy" or your Irish born and bred.

[Dumb Ideologies]

To the extent that I think anything about this, I think that it's not really my business.

[White Spider]

I don't really care about benign plastic paddy types. It's the ones that send guns and money to murder people in the UK and Ireland that piss me off. Fuck those guys.

Yeah but only "fuck those guys" because they help to murder and intimidate. That's something detestable anyway whether your a "plastic paddy" or your Irish born and bred.

They do the horrible things because of their plasticness. That's the problem.

[Greater-London]

They do the horrible things because of their plasticness. That's the problem.

No that's not true at all. In fact I would argue that if you sent money and guns to fund paramilitaries in Ireland then you probably aren't "plastic" you take your national identity seriously; its not something you do with little understanding for a laugh like wearing a shamrock hat or drinking green beer.

[Persivis]

As long as it dos not stereotype a culture on it more "popular" traits and doesn't cause active harm, not really too much of a problem.

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I wonder if the whole "green beer" thing is something that is totally mocked in Ireland.

Can't say I've ever encountered green beer, but we do joke at length about how Americans dye their rivers green, whereas the Liffey is green all on its own.

And our green beers are usually the shittiest things, like Coors Lite or something dyed green. Because a decent beer is too dark to dye green. On St. Paddy's day I usually avoid the popular choice of Guinness, not because it isn't a decent beer but because no bartenders around here pour it properly. On the other hand, I adore my Jameson. I can sip Jameson neat for hours.

[White Spider]

They do the horrible things because of their plasticness. That's the problem.

No that's not true at all. In fact I would argue that if you sent money and guns to fund paramilitaries in Ireland then you probably aren't "plastic" you take your national identity seriously; its not something you do with little understanding for a laugh like wearing a shamrock hat or drinking green beer.

Sure it is. They go around in Irish bars with buckets collecting for 'the cause' and idiots who have a vague idea of their ancestry throw money at it out of romantic ideals.

[Chucky Arla]

2. No, its to do with cheering on the Irish football team or talking to people about Gaelic Football. Also expressing views like wanting to see a united Ireland or enjoying Irish language or culture. As he sounds English he does at first seem out of place.

My kinda englishman

[Estado Paulista]

It kind of bothers me, but I try not to pay too much attention to people like that.

[ImperialistSalvia]

As far as I'm concerned, I'm an American. Two of my great-great-grandfathers came here from Helsinki & Triest and fought for the US in WWI. More distantly, my ancestors settled: New Netherland, Virginia, and New England. Being in NY, I see people clinging to being "Irish" or "Italian" while being some 3+ generation Americans. I find that to be silly; drinking beer on St Paddy's day or having pasta on Sundays doesn't make you Irish or Italian, respectively. Clinging on to something your ancestors threw away in my opinion is dumb. IE: If your grandmother's parents came from Poland, but your grandmother barely knows any Polish despite the fact that she was raised be Poles means that her parents didn't want her to be Polish, they wanted her to be an American. I have to agree with TR on this one.