Increasing Spending Doesn't Cure Bad Schools?

[The Serbian Empire]

This topic has long been an interest of mine as I have long suspected that policies of social democrats and other leftists tend to push for increased government spending in hopes of improving education in particular. But does it work? However, I found this societal experiment in a shocking form in Kansas City, Missouri. It would be useful to try an experiment: Take one of the most underfunded and worst-performing big-city educational systems, pour lots of resources into it, build the best schools imagination can create and then watch what happens.

But what happened there would be shocking. Student performance didn't increase one iota, even if it did stem the exodus of white students from Kansas City to the outlying suburbs. The dropout rate, depending on how it's measured, has remained the same or risen since 1985. About 60 percent of the kids who start high school in Kansas City never finish. Daily attendance rates have fallen, while they have been stable in the rest of Missouri.

As a result, I have a few questions to ask NSG. If it didn't work in this experiment of attempting to both desegregate and improve the performances of an underperforming urban school does that mean that school infrastructure doesn't matter as much as the student's backgrounds in the terms of performance? And what does it mean for other government spending if it failed to work in schools will it work elsewhere?

I believe that infrastructure is clearly worthless in the terms of getting students to desire education. They see it as little more than a gilded prison in a state of the art facility when compared to more rudimentary structures. Secondly, it makes me believe that government spending may not be nearly as fruitless in producing returns, but better buildings doesn't always equal better results whether it's a government building to house offices or a school.

[Kelinfort]

Again, you need to make education more about quality, not quantity. Standardised testing is more of an exercise in mass production than a true measure of intellect and skill. Boost a child's skill by increasing collaboration, learning not just how to solve a problem, but how to find problems, start with real world examples, expose a child to culture, and make the schooling environment more geared towards symbolical analytics.

[DEC-LAND]

Schools in KC are so bad that they are run by the court system. My mother grew up going to private school(She lived in KC) because no one in their right mind would send their child to public school there.

[The Serbian Empire]

Again, you need to make education more about quality, not quantity. Standardised testing is more of an exercise in mass production than a true measure of intellect and skill. Boost a child's skill by increasing collaboration, learning not just how to solve a problem, but how to find problems, start with real world examples, expose a child to culture, and make the schooling environment more geared towards symbolical analytics.

It is actually also a fascinating thing as the US wasn't fully rabid on standardized tests for every single grade during the 1980s and early 1990s and thus used the dropout rate as a measure of success.

[United Marxist Nations]

Again, you need to make education more about quality, not quantity. Standardised testing is more of an exercise in mass production than a true measure of intellect and skill. Boost a child's skill by increasing collaboration, learning not just how to solve a problem, but how to find problems, start with real world examples, expose a child to culture, and make the schooling environment more geared towards symbolical analytics.

^This.

There has to be more examinations of the reasons something happens, and not just that it happens. This is true of a wide range of subjects, from science, to math, to history.

[The Serbian Empire]

Again, you need to make education more about quality, not quantity. Standardised testing is more of an exercise in mass production than a true measure of intellect and skill. Boost a child's skill by increasing collaboration, learning not just how to solve a problem, but how to find problems, start with real world examples, expose a child to culture, and make the schooling environment more geared towards symbolical analytics.

^This.

There has to be more examinations of the reasons something happens, and not just that it happens. This is true of a wide range of subjects, from science, to math, to history.

I believe it's likely that the lack of performance increase says that the students backgrounds probably mean far more. There's no draining blood out of a turnip for example.

[United Marxist Nations]

^This.

There has to be more examinations of the reasons something happens, and not just that it happens. This is true of a wide range of subjects, from science, to math, to history.

I believe it's likely that the lack of performance increase says that the students backgrounds probably mean far more. There's no draining blood out of a turnip for example.

Well, that two, but I don't think we'd be able to do much about that without fundamentally changing the economic forces.

[The Serbian Empire]

I believe it's likely that the lack of performance increase says that the students backgrounds probably mean far more. There's no draining blood out of a turnip for example.

Well, that two, but I don't think we'd be able to do much about that without fundamentally changing the economic forces.

The problem is does this suggest that money that could be aimed at improving school infrastructure could be better spent in some other form.

[Nazi Flower Power]

This just illustrates that above a certain level of funding you get diminishing returns. It doesn't discredit the idea that underfunding can cause problems.

[The Serbian Empire]

This just illustrates that above a certain level of funding you get diminishing returns. It doesn't discredit the idea that underfunding can cause problems.

I suspect the US for the most part has been overfunding to the point that much of the budget is spent on administration instead of education.

[Cannot think of a name]

This just illustrates that above a certain level of funding you get diminishing returns. It doesn't discredit the idea that underfunding can cause problems.

I suspect the US for the most part has been overfunding to the point that much of the budget is spent on administration instead of education.

Based on...

[United Marxist Nations]

This just illustrates that above a certain level of funding you get diminishing returns. It doesn't discredit the idea that underfunding can cause problems.

I suspect the US for the most part has been overfunding to the point that much of the budget is spent on administration instead of education.

Oh yeah, there are probably more administrators than are necessary, yet several teachers at my school were let go, most likely as a result of funding.

[Wind in the Willows]

Student performance didn't increase one iota,

Because school is boring and nobody actually wants to be there, it's just a bunch of bureaucrats in the government that made school compulsory. A lot of my friends didn't even listen in school.

[Arkolon]

I have yet to find a teacher that actually thinks that a bureaucrat with no teaching experience can do a better job than they can in the classroom. Funding more bureaucrats isn't going to help the school, obviously. I'd rather see the same money going to paying for free, universal education in chosen private schools optionally.

[The Serbian Empire]

I suspect the US for the most part has been overfunding to the point that much of the budget is spent on administration instead of education.

Based on...

The lack of performance increase in Kansas City after that experiment. The school district went from not being able to pay it's bills on time to having a bloated bureaucracy. Many other large school districts also followed suit in expanding their administration in hopes of avoiding lawsuits.

[The Serbian Empire]

I have yet to find a teacher that actually thinks that a bureaucrat with no teaching experience can do a better job than they can in the classroom. Funding more bureaucrats isn't going to help the school, obviously. I'd rather see the same money going to paying for free, universal education in chosen private schools optionally.

Yet, the politicians and judges believe that they can do a better job.

[Cannot think of a name]

Based on...

The lack of performance increase in Kansas City after that experiment. The school district went from not being able to pay it's bills on time to having a bloated bureaucracy. Many other large school districts also followed suit in expanding their administration in hopes of avoiding lawsuits.

And this single experiment somehow let you know that overfunding is the problem nationwide? That's some leapy-logic.

[Arkolon]

I have yet to find a teacher that actually thinks that a bureaucrat with no teaching experience can do a better job than they can in the classroom. Funding more bureaucrats isn't going to help the school, obviously. I'd rather see the same money going to paying for free, universal education in chosen private schools optionally.

Yet, the politicians and judges believe that they can do a better job.

Monetary policy, product regulation, marriage, law, taxation, justice.. what do politicians and judges think they can't do better than everyone else?

[Nazi Flower Power]

This just illustrates that above a certain level of funding you get diminishing returns. It doesn't discredit the idea that underfunding can cause problems.

I suspect the US for the most part has been overfunding to the point that much of the budget is spent on administration instead of education.

That's not overfunding so much as poor management.

There are a few places where underfunding is an actual problem and schools close early because they don't have the funding to keep them open for a normal length school day. Other places have adequate funding and just need to be organized more effectively. And some schools are actually decent. The US education system varies dramatically from state to state and county to county, so it doesn't make much sense to generalize about the country as a whole.

[Couasia]

How about take a page from Finland, and encourage highly-performing students to join the teaching profession?

[The Serbian Empire]

The lack of performance increase in Kansas City after that experiment. The school district went from not being able to pay it's bills on time to having a bloated bureaucracy. Many other large school districts also followed suit in expanding their administration in hopes of avoiding lawsuits.

And this single experiment somehow let you know that overfunding is the problem nationwide? That's some leapy-logic.

Remember, the other schools weren't being shoveled money like the KC district did but the administration still grew. The source may be questionable, but the fact the student and teacher funds grew at a far slower rate than the administration budget did.

[Luziyca]

Again, you need to make education more about quality, not quantity. Standardised testing is more of an exercise in mass production than a true measure of intellect and skill. Boost a child's skill by increasing collaboration, learning not just how to solve a problem, but how to find problems, start with real world examples, expose a child to culture, and make the schooling environment more geared towards symbolical analytics.

Essentially this. The states need better educators, not more administrators to administrate the school while the system goes to shit.

[Yanalia]

Obviously investing just in schools isn't going to fix the underlying socioeconomic problems plaguing the US education system. The state needs to provide investment in many areas, so that the "background" of these students, as OP described, will be improved.

[Napkiraly]

Student performance didn't increase one iota,

Because school is boring and nobody actually wants to be there

Speak for yourself.

[Wind in the Willows]

Because school is boring and nobody actually wants to be there

Speak for yourself.

I can legally leave school in a few months. Looking forward to it.