NATION

PASSWORD

Biggest US Supreme Court ruling of the year

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)
User avatar
Trollzilla
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 449
Founded: May 19, 2014
Ex-Nation

Biggest US Supreme Court ruling of the year

Postby Trollzilla » Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:30 am

It is now 4:30 am Pacific time and 7:30 am Eastern Time in the United States. In just a few hours the Supreme Court of the United States is expected to issue what many consider to be the most important ruling of 2014 for the American people.

The nine justice will decide whether or not religious freedom may be restricted in the name of women's absolute right to contraception and abortion and to force other people to pay for it.

The justices will also decide whether corporations have religious rights or whether freedom of religion applies only to individuals.

These decisions will arrive sometime after 10 am eastern time.

At issue are two companies. One whose owners are practising Christians and another company whose owners are not very religious but are claiming religious freedom just to get out having to pay for extra healthcare for their employees.

One of the companies has claimed that the morning after pill is actually an abortion pill. The pill in question, however, does not kill fetuses, but rather prevents the woman's egg from becoming fertilized. Once the sperm enters the egg, for those of you who are not aware of this, it takes up to 24 hours for it to make it through the egg to center where it has to go before fertilization can even start. The morning after pill prevents this by flushing the egg before fertilization can begin. No fertilization, no fetus, no abortion. To call it an abortion pill is therefore, misleading.

But even that will be minor compared to the question of whether corporations have a right to religious freedom objections to reasonable secular laws. The courts in the United States have never ruled on whether the first amendment religious freedom clause applies to corporations or whether that right can be used to prevent people from exercising their reasonable rights.

What do you think the court will do?

User avatar
Trollzilla
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 449
Founded: May 19, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Trollzilla » Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:34 am

It is my position that these companies are more likely using religious freedom as a smoke screen to avoid their legal responsibilities to provide employer funded health care benefits to their employees. This is more about corporate profits than it is religious freedom.

User avatar
The Yorkshire Commonwealth
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 193
Founded: Jun 20, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby The Yorkshire Commonwealth » Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:34 am

So there's a debate at the top level about whether or not a company should be able to not pay it's dues just because it's directors claim their church told them it was naughty? :eyebrow:

Odd country.
British Genderqueer Intactivist Pokémon Trainer
Economic Left/Right: -5.12 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.67
Sound the alarm! Conservatives are trying to do us harm!
--Formerly Multifarity and the Independent Isle Of Wight--

User avatar
Trollzilla
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 449
Founded: May 19, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Trollzilla » Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:37 am

Not just the company but state employees. The other case, which I forgot to mention will decide whether public employees can be forced to pay fees to unions they are not members of or whether this violates their first amendment rights. Harris vs Quinn

Both cases deal with the US first amendment.

User avatar
Greed and Death
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53383
Founded: Mar 20, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Greed and Death » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:11 am

The Yorkshire Commonwealth wrote:So there's a debate at the top level about whether or not a company should be able to not pay it's dues just because it's directors claim their church told them it was naughty? :eyebrow:

Odd country.

Religious exemptions are not abnormal, and are granted all the time. What makes this different is this is a relatively large for profit corporation.

Also worth pointing out Hobby Lobby increases its insurance cost by not providing coverage for contraception. So they are arguing for the ability to pay more.
"Trying to solve the healthcare problem by mandating people buy insurance is like trying to solve the homeless problem by mandating people buy a house."(paraphrase from debate with Hilary Clinton)
Barack Obama

User avatar
Volnotova
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8214
Founded: Nov 08, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Volnotova » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:16 am

Trollzilla wrote:It is my position that these companies are more likely using religious freedom as a smoke screen to avoid their legal responsibilities to provide employer funded health care benefits to their employees. This is more about corporate profits than it is religious freedom.


Hit. Nail. Head.

This so very much.
A very exclusive and exceptional ice crystal.

A surrealistic alien entity stretched thin across the many membranes of the multiverse.
The Land Fomerly Known as Ligerplace wrote:You are the most lawful neutral person I have ever witnessed.


Polruan wrote:It's like Humphrey Applebee wrote a chapter of the Talmud in here.

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 163884
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:29 am

Trollzilla wrote:It is now 4:30 am Pacific time and 7:30 am Eastern Time in the United States. In just a few hours the Supreme Court of the United States is expected to issue what many consider to be the most important ruling of 2014 for the American people.

The nine justice will decide whether or not religious freedom may be restricted in the name of women's absolute right to contraception and abortion and to force other people to pay for it.

Bet that's not what they're actually deciding, though.
He/Him

beating the devil
we never run from the devil
we never summon the devil
we never hide from from the devil
we never

User avatar
Ashmoria
Post Czar
 
Posts: 46718
Founded: Mar 19, 2004
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ashmoria » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:33 am

im willing to wait a little while to see what they will rule.
whatever

User avatar
Ashmoria
Post Czar
 
Posts: 46718
Founded: Mar 19, 2004
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ashmoria » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:38 am

Ifreann wrote:
Trollzilla wrote:It is now 4:30 am Pacific time and 7:30 am Eastern Time in the United States. In just a few hours the Supreme Court of the United States is expected to issue what many consider to be the most important ruling of 2014 for the American people.

The nine justice will decide whether or not religious freedom may be restricted in the name of women's absolute right to contraception and abortion and to force other people to pay for it.

Bet that's not what they're actually deciding, though.

no

its more "if corporations are people too, can they have a religious conscience that overrules some details of federal law?"

or "if you own a corporation yourself can your religious beliefs count as the beliefs of the corporation?"
whatever

User avatar
-The Unified Earth Governments-
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12215
Founded: Aug 25, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby -The Unified Earth Governments- » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:45 am

We should get everyone off their asses more often, I feel that this will go south :\
FactbookHistoryColoniesEmbassy Program V.IIUNSC Navy (WIP)InfantryAmmo Mods
/// A.N.N. \\\
News - 10/27/2558: Deglassing of Reach is going smoother than expected. | First prototype laser rifle is beginning experimentation. | The Sangheili Civil War is officially over, Arbiter Thel'Vadam and his Swords of Sanghelios have successfully eliminated remaining Covenant cells on Sanghelios. | President Ruth Charet to hold press meeting within the hour on the end of the Sangheili Civil War. | The Citadel Council official introduces the Unggoy as a member of the Citadel.

The Most Important Issue Result - "Robosexual marriages are increasingly common."

User avatar
Ashmoria
Post Czar
 
Posts: 46718
Founded: Mar 19, 2004
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ashmoria » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:45 am

-The Unified Earth Governments- wrote:We should get everyone off their asses more often, I feel that this will go south :\


huh?
whatever

User avatar
-The Unified Earth Governments-
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12215
Founded: Aug 25, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby -The Unified Earth Governments- » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:51 am

Ashmoria wrote:
-The Unified Earth Governments- wrote:We should get everyone off their asses more often, I feel that this will go south :\


huh?

...

I don't see what there is to be confused about...
FactbookHistoryColoniesEmbassy Program V.IIUNSC Navy (WIP)InfantryAmmo Mods
/// A.N.N. \\\
News - 10/27/2558: Deglassing of Reach is going smoother than expected. | First prototype laser rifle is beginning experimentation. | The Sangheili Civil War is officially over, Arbiter Thel'Vadam and his Swords of Sanghelios have successfully eliminated remaining Covenant cells on Sanghelios. | President Ruth Charet to hold press meeting within the hour on the end of the Sangheili Civil War. | The Citadel Council official introduces the Unggoy as a member of the Citadel.

The Most Important Issue Result - "Robosexual marriages are increasingly common."

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 163884
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:16 am

Ashmoria wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Bet that's not what they're actually deciding, though.

no

its more "if corporations are people too, can they have a religious conscience that overrules some details of federal law?"

or "if you own a corporation yourself can your religious beliefs count as the beliefs of the corporation?"

I rather thought as much.


-The Unified Earth Governments- wrote:
Ashmoria wrote:
huh?

...

I don't see what there is to be confused about...

Why would people be getting off their asses here? I'm pretty sure judges sit down at the bench.
He/Him

beating the devil
we never run from the devil
we never summon the devil
we never hide from from the devil
we never

User avatar
-The Unified Earth Governments-
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12215
Founded: Aug 25, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby -The Unified Earth Governments- » Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:17 am

Ifreann wrote:
Ashmoria wrote:no

its more "if corporations are people too, can they have a religious conscience that overrules some details of federal law?"

or "if you own a corporation yourself can your religious beliefs count as the beliefs of the corporation?"

I rather thought as much.


-The Unified Earth Governments- wrote:...

I don't see what there is to be confused about...

Why would people be getting off their asses here? I'm pretty sure judges sit down at the bench.


I'm not talking about the Judges :I
FactbookHistoryColoniesEmbassy Program V.IIUNSC Navy (WIP)InfantryAmmo Mods
/// A.N.N. \\\
News - 10/27/2558: Deglassing of Reach is going smoother than expected. | First prototype laser rifle is beginning experimentation. | The Sangheili Civil War is officially over, Arbiter Thel'Vadam and his Swords of Sanghelios have successfully eliminated remaining Covenant cells on Sanghelios. | President Ruth Charet to hold press meeting within the hour on the end of the Sangheili Civil War. | The Citadel Council official introduces the Unggoy as a member of the Citadel.

The Most Important Issue Result - "Robosexual marriages are increasingly common."

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 163884
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:18 am

-The Unified Earth Governments- wrote:
Ifreann wrote:I rather thought as much.



Why would people be getting off their asses here? I'm pretty sure judges sit down at the bench.


I'm not talking about the Judges :I

Who are you talking about, then? I guess they probably do that "All rise" thing, but then everyone sits down afterwards.
He/Him

beating the devil
we never run from the devil
we never summon the devil
we never hide from from the devil
we never

User avatar
The Time Alliance
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10635
Founded: Aug 16, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Time Alliance » Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:20 am

-The Unified Earth Governments- wrote:We should get everyone off their asses more often, I feel that this will go south :\

Revolution?

User avatar
Blekksprutia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5957
Founded: Mar 21, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Blekksprutia » Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:45 am

Predictions, anyone? :p
KILLUGON and BERNIE SANDERS and my moirail, ERIDEL.
Founder of Kotturheim, home to my GAY POLECATS, who are TOO FABULOUS FOR YOU.
Arg: Blekk does that. The topics of same sex marriage and the human race's fight against idiocy motivate him to write some truly impressive and glorious rants that deserve to be remembered and sigged.
Zott: I see our Blekky has discovered the joys of amphetamines.
Horus: blekky you are blekky i am horus
Rio: Blekky you are the best person on this website. Figuratively, kiss me.
Blekky is like a bunny. He looks adorable, yet he might bite you till it hurts.
Veccy: you're the worst blekky
The Balkens: Blekk does that, he has been taught by NSG's greatest practitioners of Snark to Snark combat.
Napki: Marry me, Blekk
Aeq: Blekk, you are Jesus!!!

User avatar
Ashmoria
Post Czar
 
Posts: 46718
Founded: Mar 19, 2004
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ashmoria » Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:51 am

Blekksprutia wrote:Predictions, anyone? :p

I predict that it will cause me to swear.
whatever

User avatar
The North Polish Union
Senator
 
Posts: 4777
Founded: Nov 13, 2012
Moralistic Democracy

Postby The North Polish Union » Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:52 am

Blekksprutia wrote:Predictions, anyone? :p

I'm saying 5-4 in favor of Hobby Lobby. The current SCOTUS has tended to be conservative and tends to favor greater corporate freedom in spending, which a ruling in favor if Sebelius would decrease.
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:keep your wet opinions to yourself. Byzantium and Ottoman will not come again. Whoever thinks of this wet dream will feel the power of the Republic's secular army.
Minskiev wrote:You are GP's dross.
Petrovsegratsk wrote:NPU, I know your clearly a Polish nationalist, but wtf is up with your obssession with resurrecting the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth?
The yoshin empire wrote:Grouping russians with slavs is like grouping germans with french , the two are so culturally different.

.
Balansujcie dopóki się da, a gdy się już nie da, podpalcie świat!
Author of S.C. Res. № 137
POLAND
STRONG!

User avatar
The Time Alliance
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10635
Founded: Aug 16, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Time Alliance » Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:34 am

They ruled in favor of Hobby Lobby.

YAY Religious Freedoms!

User avatar
Vazdania
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19448
Founded: Mar 06, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Vazdania » Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:54 am

Trollzilla wrote:It is now 4:30 am Pacific time and 7:30 am Eastern Time in the United States. In just a few hours the Supreme Court of the United States is expected to issue what many consider to be the most important ruling of 2014 for the American people.

The nine justice will decide whether or not religious freedom may be restricted in the name of women's absolute right to contraception and abortion and to force other people to pay for it.

The justices will also decide whether corporations have religious rights or whether freedom of religion applies only to individuals.

These decisions will arrive sometime after 10 am eastern time.

At issue are two companies. One whose owners are practising Christians and another company whose owners are not very religious but are claiming religious freedom just to get out having to pay for extra healthcare for their employees.

One of the companies has claimed that the morning after pill is actually an abortion pill. The pill in question, however, does not kill fetuses, but rather prevents the woman's egg from becoming fertilized. Once the sperm enters the egg, for those of you who are not aware of this, it takes up to 24 hours for it to make it through the egg to center where it has to go before fertilization can even start. The morning after pill prevents this by flushing the egg before fertilization can begin. No fertilization, no fetus, no abortion. To call it an abortion pill is therefore, misleading.

But even that will be minor compared to the question of whether corporations have a right to religious freedom objections to reasonable secular laws. The courts in the United States have never ruled on whether the first amendment religious freedom clause applies to corporations or whether that right can be used to prevent people from exercising their reasonable rights.

What do you think the court will do?

WOOHOOO!!!! COURTS RULED IN FAVOUR!?!?! AMAZING!!! AWESOME!!! AW YIS!!!! GO HOBBY LOBBY!!!
NSG's Resident Constitutional Executive Monarchist!
We Monarchists Stand With The Morals Of The Past, As We Hatch Impossible Treasons Against The Present.

They Have No Voice; So I will Speak For Them. The Right To Life Is Fundamental To All Humans Regardless Of How Developed They Are. Pro-Woman. Pro-Child. Pro-Life.

NSG's Newest Vegetarian!

User avatar
Maineiacs
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7323
Founded: May 26, 2005
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Maineiacs » Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:55 am

Yay! First, corporations are people; next, only corporations will be people. :palm:
Economic:-8.12 Social:-7.59 Moral Rules:5 Moral Order:-5
Muravyets: Maineiacs, you are brilliant, too! I stand in delighted awe.
Sane Outcasts:When your best case scenario is five kilometers of nuclear contamination, you know someone fucked up.
Geniasis: Christian values are incompatible with Conservative ideals. I cannot both follow the teachings of Christ and be a Republican. Therefore, I choose to not be a Republican.
Galloism: If someone will build a wall around Donald Trump, I'll pay for it.
Bottle tells it like it is
add 6,928 to post count

User avatar
Vazdania
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19448
Founded: Mar 06, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Vazdania » Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:56 am

Maineiacs wrote:Yay! First, corporations are people; next, only corporations will be people. :palm:

:clap:
NSG's Resident Constitutional Executive Monarchist!
We Monarchists Stand With The Morals Of The Past, As We Hatch Impossible Treasons Against The Present.

They Have No Voice; So I will Speak For Them. The Right To Life Is Fundamental To All Humans Regardless Of How Developed They Are. Pro-Woman. Pro-Child. Pro-Life.

NSG's Newest Vegetarian!

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60885
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:57 am

Wow, SCOTUS... Just... wow. :palm:
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Maineiacs
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7323
Founded: May 26, 2005
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Maineiacs » Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:57 am

Vazdania wrote:
Maineiacs wrote:Yay! First, corporations are people; next, only corporations will be people. :palm:

:clap:



Not real good at being sarcastic, are you? You can't think that corporate personhood over real people is a good thing.
Last edited by Maineiacs on Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Economic:-8.12 Social:-7.59 Moral Rules:5 Moral Order:-5
Muravyets: Maineiacs, you are brilliant, too! I stand in delighted awe.
Sane Outcasts:When your best case scenario is five kilometers of nuclear contamination, you know someone fucked up.
Geniasis: Christian values are incompatible with Conservative ideals. I cannot both follow the teachings of Christ and be a Republican. Therefore, I choose to not be a Republican.
Galloism: If someone will build a wall around Donald Trump, I'll pay for it.
Bottle tells it like it is
add 6,928 to post count

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Almonaster Nuevo, East Leaf Republic, Shrillland, The Republic of Western Sol, Tungstan

Advertisement

Remove ads