Should the NHS fund religion?

[Frazers]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/heal ... n.24032301

Health boards collectively spend about £3.7m a year on the internal departments, including paying salaries of full-time "generic" NHS chaplains who are tasked with providing support to all who ask for it.

In addition, the NHS has made payments of almost £600,000 to churches to attend to the religious needs of individual patients in the past three years, figures obtained by The Herald under Freedom of Information laws revealed.

More than 85% of spending on the external bodies went to the Roman Catholic Church, largely in exchange for priests to come in to hospitals and perform sacraments such as the last rites, which NHS chaplains are not able to carry out.

Scotland's largest health board, NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde, said its in-house chaplaincy department was allocated a budget of £632,665 in 2013/14, with the service "providing non-denominational support to our 38,000 staff and all our patients".

It also pays £75,000 per year to the Archdiocese of Glasgow and the Diocese of Paisley in exchange for "on-call" priests, "to provide the Sacramental ministry that Roman Catholic patients and families expect".

It previously also paid money to the Church of Scotland and the Episcopal Church, before the arrangements ended after March 2012.

Spencer Fildes, chairman of the Scottish Secular Society, called for payments to external churches to be scrapped and for budgets for internal chaplaincy services to be re-examined urgently.

"We believe chaplaincy services are essential, but we don't support their funding by the NHS," he said. "The cost of £3.7m a year is quite astonishing, particularly when frontline services are being cut and there's a desperate need for more healthcare professionals across the country.

So what do you think? Should the NHS be funding religious organisations to provide for the spiritual needs of the patients in their care or should this be left in the realm of the churches, etc?

My view is that this should be paid for by the relevant religious bodies in the local area. They're expected to attend to their congregations in the community without requiring bribes to do it and it's shameful that they require these payments should someone cross the threshold of a hospital.

[Divair2]

No.

[Dejanic]

Hell no, core components of the NHS are getting gutted, shit like this is just a waste of money.

I can't think of many Priests who wouldn't perhaps visit members of their church once or twice whilst in hospital, and the same goes for other religions, we don't need to hire random religious workers.

[Benuty]

I thought this was about medical services ran by religious associations for non profit motives .

[Ifreann]

Having chaplains and chapels is all well and good, but why would hospitals be paying for priests and other clergy to do things like perform the Last Rites? Isn't that what their diocese(or whatever) pays them to do?

[Benuty]

Hell no, core components of the NHS are getting gutted, shit like this is just a waste of money

The question remains, is that why bloodletting has been viewed as a legitimate treatment for ailments again is because the NHS has been downsized?

[Nervium]

Having chaplains and chapels is all well and good, but why would hospitals be paying for priests and other clergy to do things like perform the Last Rites? Isn't that what their diocese(or whatever) pays them to do?

Are all hospitals NHS, or are there religiously owned?

[The Archregimancy]

Is this universal across the United Kingdom, or is this specific to Scotland?

The OP quotes a Scottish newspaper, and all of the examples are Scottish.

It would be helpful to know how widespread the practice is before offering an opinion.

[Ucropi]

Nope

[Frazers]

Is this universal across the United Kingdom, or is this specific to Scotland?

The OP quotes a Scottish newspaper, and all of the examples are Scottish.

It would be helpful to know how widespread the practice is before offering an opinion.

It's a quick and dirty link but here's something to start you off :

http://www.secularism.org.uk/nhs-chapla ... nding.html

[Islamic republiq of Julundar]

People are sick, they are scared, some want priests to comfort them. So far so good. OP shows that Roman priests are gaming a perfectly good system to get more money than they should.

In general, the Chaplaincy system is reasonable. We need extra regulations to stop Priests ripping us off. Due diligence, Health and Safety, book-keeping etc.

The problem could be simply solved BUT Lord david Cameron wants the Priests to have loads of money. He ain't gonna change the rules.

You do the Math

[The USOT]

Can't chaplains also be secular?

[Genivaria]

Hell no, and if priests MUST perform services in the hospital let them be funded by whatever church they're part of.

[Greater-London]

Local Churches, Synagogues, Mosques ETC should send people on request and they shouldn't be paid extra by the hospital, its part of their job.

[Greater-London]

Are all hospitals NHS, or are there religiously owned?

Not all hospitals are NHS, some of them are private. To make things confusing some NHS hospitals are operated by private companies although the healthcare they provide is still 'free'.

There are religious hospitals in the UK but they will be private hospitals or charities. I think all NHS hospitals have Chaplin's and many have Chapels inside them but they arn't a Christian or religious hospital.

[The USOT]

http://www.humanistchaplains.org/whatisit
Secular humanist chaplains do exist...
If they are funded too, I have no issue with this.

[Benuty]

http://www.humanistchaplains.org/whatisit
Secular humanist chaplains do exist...
If they are funded too, I have no issue with this.

I expect the "Hell no" from the nay sayer crowd when they see this.

[Murkwood]

Can't chaplains also be secular?

How?

[The USOT]

Can't chaplains also be secular?

How?

If you look up a few posts I give a link to the humanist chaplaincy.

From memory, many chaplains train to be multi-faith in service too.

[Constantinopolis]

Local Churches, Synagogues, Mosques ETC should send people on request and they shouldn't be paid extra by the hospital, its part of their job.

Yes, this.

However, if for whatever reason this isn't happening, in the short run hospitals need to make every effort (and spend the necessary money) to ensure the spiritual needs of their patients are taken care of. In the long run we need to figure out why the thing quoted above is not universal practice as it should be.

[Bombadil]

Ban hospitals - we cannot have religion and the state mixing together.

[Ballycolumbia]

Ban hospitals - we cannot have religion and the state mixing together.

Are you serious or joking?

[Korintar]

I am actually considering chaplaincy as a calling. As a general rule, chaplains aren't necessarily attached to a specific congregation, although there are exceptions. Instead, they are often employees of the institution where they provide spiritual services or under contract with a particular institution. Furthermore, chaplains are more specialized in their ministry, frequently taking an additional year's worth of coursework in seminary to prepare them for the specific mission field they wish to work in. Those courses generally consist of psychology, sociology, ethics, business, and history courses, along with additional clinical pastoral education focusing on the field they wish to enter. Such chaplains, especially if they are trained to provide multi-faith spiritual services, as many often are, do deserve to be paid just like any other professional. Hence, 3.7 million British Pounds is probably not too out of line, depending upon how many clerics we are talking about. If it is only a few dozen, then I agree that it is probably excessive, especially if they are needing to make cuts elsewhere. However, if it is a couple hundred clerics plus support staff, then it is rather reasonable. Keep in mind the word "including," which implies it is not just chaplains whose paycheck comes from that 3.7 million pounds, but other employees of the hospital system as well.

[Ballycolumbia]

I am actually considering chaplaincy as a calling. As a general rule, chaplains aren't necessarily attached to a specific congregation, although there are exceptions. Instead, they are often employees of the institution where they provide spiritual services or under contract with a particular institution. Furthermore, chaplains are more specialized in their ministry, frequently taking an additional year's worth of coursework in seminary to prepare them for the specific mission field they wish to work in. Those courses generally consist of psychology, sociology, ethics, business, and history courses, along with additional clinical pastoral education focusing on the field they wish to enter. Such chaplains, especially if they are trained to provide multi-faith spiritual services, as many often are, do deserve to be paid just like any other professional. Hence, 3.7 million British Pounds is probably not too out of line, depending upon how many clerics we are talking about. If it is only a few dozen, then I agree that it is probably excessive, especially if they are needing to make cuts elsewhere. However, if it is a couple hundred clerics plus support staff, then it is rather reasonable. Keep in mind the word "including," which implies it is not just chaplains whose paycheck comes from that 3.7 million pounds, but other employees of the hospital system as well.

It's not the chaplains that are the big deal (I approve of them as both councillors and to provide spiritual service when people need it most), it's the fact that hospitals pay local religions to have their clergy perform last rites and such, since chaplains aren't allowed/approved to do such things.

[Jamzmania]

When people are going through bad times, including near death, religion is very important to their well-being. I believe there's a study out there which says that those who lose spiritual faith have a lower chance of recovering. Either way, people need God when things are most looking down.

Edit: Losing spiritual faith as in feeling abandoned by God, etc.