Relax gun laws

[Bombadil]

Chicago police face overwhelming gun crime as 45 people shot over weekend

Police officials point to need for stricter gun laws after city suffers bloody Easter weekend in which nine people were killed

Link

His remarks came as Chicago suffered its bloodiest weekend of the year. Dozens of residents were shot in a series of separate incidents. On the city’s south side, five children aged between 11 and 15 were shot while walking home from a park on Sunday evening.

The four girls and one boy were asked if they were affiliated with a gang, and then shots were fired from a light-coloured sedan, a police spokesman said. An 11-year-old girl was in a critical condition in hospital after being shot in the neck. A 14-year-old girl was in a serious condition after suffering a shot to her abdomen. A 14-year-old boy and 15-year-old girl were stable after being shot in the left leg and right arm respectively. Another 14-year-old girl suffered a grazed buttock.

The shootings occurred less than a mile from the south-side porch where Gakirah Barnes, a 17-year-old girl, died after being shot nine times the previous weekend. “We are looking at whether this could have been a retaliation for previous shootings,” Andrew Holmes, a community organiser, said on Monday morning.

About two hours after the five children were shot on Sunday evening, a 15-year-old girl was shot in the back while sitting in a car at a traffic light in the north-west of the city. Police said that a group of three men had flashed gang signs before one opened fire.

At least nine people were killed around the city over the Easter weekend, including 16-year-old Jordan Means, who, along with 18-year-old Anthony Bankhead, was found shot dead in an apartment on the south side on Saturday morning.

Surely we should be allowing kids to own guns so they can defend themselves and therefore reduce violence overall?

Means’s mother, Camille Cochran, told local media that the pair were shot over a dispute that had been raging on Facebook.

..oh, and ban Facebook.

[Thafoo]

The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a kindergartener with a gun who still has yet to learn basic multiplication.

[Shaggai]

The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a kindergartener with a gun who still has yet to learn basic multiplication.

Wrong. A kindergartner with a thermonuclear missile will do it too. Therefore, we should allow children to own nuclear weapons for personal use. Not adults, of course. Just children.

[Occupied Deutschland]

Chicago PD should probably focus more on combating gangs (which, to be fair, are only problems that are exacerbated by state and federal policy, so they're a problem that's really big for them to try and combat effectively without structural reforms) rather than scapegoating firearm laws.

[Infected Mushroom]

Chicago police face overwhelming gun crime as 45 people shot over weekend

Police officials point to need for stricter gun laws after city suffers bloody Easter weekend in which nine people were killed

Link

His remarks came as Chicago suffered its bloodiest weekend of the year. Dozens of residents were shot in a series of separate incidents. On the city’s south side, five children aged between 11 and 15 were shot while walking home from a park on Sunday evening.

The four girls and one boy were asked if they were affiliated with a gang, and then shots were fired from a light-coloured sedan, a police spokesman said. An 11-year-old girl was in a critical condition in hospital after being shot in the neck. A 14-year-old girl was in a serious condition after suffering a shot to her abdomen. A 14-year-old boy and 15-year-old girl were stable after being shot in the left leg and right arm respectively. Another 14-year-old girl suffered a grazed buttock.

The shootings occurred less than a mile from the south-side porch where Gakirah Barnes, a 17-year-old girl, died after being shot nine times the previous weekend. “We are looking at whether this could have been a retaliation for previous shootings,” Andrew Holmes, a community organiser, said on Monday morning.

About two hours after the five children were shot on Sunday evening, a 15-year-old girl was shot in the back while sitting in a car at a traffic light in the north-west of the city. Police said that a group of three men had flashed gang signs before one opened fire.

At least nine people were killed around the city over the Easter weekend, including 16-year-old Jordan Means, who, along with 18-year-old Anthony Bankhead, was found shot dead in an apartment on the south side on Saturday morning.

Surely we should be allowing kids to own guns so they can defend themselves and therefore reduce violence overall?

Means’s mother, Camille Cochran, told local media that the pair were shot over a dispute that had been raging on Facebook.

..oh, and ban Facebook.

no all guns should be banned.

We should make sure gangs don't have them either.

A country is never safe if any kid could shoot up a whole neighborhood any time.

[The Scientific States]

That's really saddening.

The Chicago Police did a great job in the 90's cracking down on gangs, and they lowered the violent crime rate significantly through increased spending to alleviate poverty, and increased spending on police forces and drug prevention programs. They need to do that again.

[New Aerios]

Link



Surely we should be allowing kids to own guns so they can defend themselves and therefore reduce violence overall?



..oh, and ban Facebook.

no all guns should be banned.

We should make sure gangs don't have them either.

A country is never safe if any kid could shoot up a whole neighborhood any time.[gun here.te]

And how do you plan to ensure that gangs don't have guns? Make them illegal? Because guess what - criminals don't obey the law. I mean, the UK has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the world, and gangs still get hold of guns here...

[The Scientific States]

no all guns should be banned.

We should make sure gangs don't have them either.

A country is never safe if any kid could shoot up a whole neighborhood any time.[gun here.te]

And how do you plan to ensure that gangs don't have guns? Make them illegal? Because guess what - criminals don't obey the law. I mean, the UK has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the world, and gangs still get hold of guns here...[/quote]

The UK has a significantly lower violent crime rate than America because of it's gun laws.

[New Aerios]

The UK has a significantly lower violent crime rate than America because of it's gun laws.

In raw numbers, yes, as the UK has a smaller population.

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/United-Kingdom/United-States/Crime

When you look at percentages, though, we have over double the assaults, over double the rapes...

[Infected Mushroom]

no all guns should be banned.

We should make sure gangs don't have them either.

A country is never safe if any kid could shoot up a whole neighborhood any time.[gun here.te]

And how do you plan to ensure that gangs don't have guns? Make them illegal? Because guess what - criminals don't obey the law. I mean, the UK has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the world, and gangs still get hold of guns here...

You would use the police to stop them.

[Occupied Deutschland]

The UK has a significantly lower violent crime rate than America because of it's gun laws.

*Violent crime rate between UK and USA experiences difficulties in comparison due to differing definitions. UK actually has a significantly larger violent crime rate if I remember correctly. But it doesn't account for the same crimes.

[The Scientific States]

The UK has a significantly lower violent crime rate than America because of it's gun laws.

In raw numbers, yes, as the UK has a smaller population.

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/United-Kingdom/United-States/Crime

When you look at percentages, though, we have over double the assaults, over double the rapes...

You seem to be ignoring the murder by firearms section...

[New Aerios]

And how do you plan to ensure that gangs don't have guns? Make them illegal? Because guess what - criminals don't obey the law. I mean, the UK has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the world, and gangs still get hold of guns here...

You would use the police to stop them.

Because they're doing a great job so far, aren't they...

[New Aerios]

In raw numbers, yes, as the UK has a smaller population.

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/United-Kingdom/United-States/Crime

When you look at percentages, though, we have over double the assaults, over double the rapes...

You seem to be ignoring the murder by firearms section...

Which doesn't differentiate between legally and illegally acquired firearms being used. I'd hazard a guess that the rate of illegally acquired firearms in murders is pretty much the same in both countries, although I'll go have a look for some evidence now.

[The Scientific States]

The UK has a significantly lower violent crime rate than America because of it's gun laws.

*Violent crime rate between UK and USA experiences difficulties in comparison due to differing definitions. UK actually has a significantly larger violent crime rate if I remember correctly. But it doesn't account for the same crimes.

If you look at the source New Aerios provided, you'll see that the murder by firearms in the US is ridiculous compared to the small number of firearm deaths in Britain. I'm not going to deny that rape and assaults are actually more common in Britain, since those claims were sourced, and are true, but it seems that we have a much bigger gun problem in the US then in Britain.

[The Scientific States]

You seem to be ignoring the murder by firearms section...

Which doesn't differentiate between legally and illegally acquired firearms being used. I'd hazard a guess that the rate of illegally acquired firearms in murders is pretty much the same in both countries, although I'll go have a look for some evidence now.

If that was the case, that doesn't help your point. A murder is a murder, whether done with a legally required firearm or an illegally required one. You're saying that we clearly have a problem with people murdering others with their legally owned guns, so wouldn't it make sense to put some restrictions on legally owned guns to reduce gun deaths? I'm not saying we should be as restrictive as Britain, but we need some restrictions.

[New Aerios]

Which doesn't differentiate between legally and illegally acquired firearms being used. I'd hazard a guess that the rate of illegally acquired firearms in murders is pretty much the same in both countries, although I'll go have a look for some evidence now.

If that was the case, that doesn't help your point. A murder is a murder, whether done with a legally required firearm or an illegally required one. You're saying that we clearly have a problem with people murdering others with their legally owned guns, so wouldn't it make sense to put some restrictions on legally owned guns to reduce gun deaths? I'm not saying we should be as restrictive as Britain, but we need some restrictions.

My original point was to do with gun control being unable to prevent criminals from acquiring guns. Besides, other crime rates in Britain are much higher than the US. Maybe (speculation, again I'll go look for evidence) that's because only the criminals are armed.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/aug/30/ukcrime1

And I'm back:
- Criminal use of handguns rose 40% after ban:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1440764.stm
- Article on increase in UK violent crime after gun ban:
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2012/12/11/gun-crime-soars-in-england-where-guns-are-banned-n1464528
- This one seems to be mainly anecdotal, but there's an interesting little fact in there about the guy responsible for the Dunblane massacre and subsequent handgun ban. He simply lied to the police to get his gun licence...:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1366463/Dunblane-gun-law-has-been-failure-says-marksman.html

[Bombadil]

You seem to be ignoring the murder by firearms section...

Which doesn't differentiate between legally and illegally acquired firearms being used. I'd hazard a guess that the rate of illegally acquired firearms in murders is pretty much the same in both countries, although I'll go have a look for some evidence now.

..and for both rapes and assaults, it's like 2x the amount of a pretty low figure, whereas guns and murders are significantly different.

However, the UK kicking ass on the drugs front.

[The Scientific States]

If that was the case, that doesn't help your point. A murder is a murder, whether done with a legally required firearm or an illegally required one. You're saying that we clearly have a problem with people murdering others with their legally owned guns, so wouldn't it make sense to put some restrictions on legally owned guns to reduce gun deaths? I'm not saying we should be as restrictive as Britain, but we need some restrictions.

My original point was to do with gun control being unable to prevent criminals from acquiring guns. Besides, other crime rates in Britain are much higher than the US. Maybe (speculation, again I'll go look for evidence) that's because only the criminals are armed.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/aug/30/ukcrime1

All I'm saying is, that because we have a problem with legal guns, which you acknowledged, shouldn't we do something about it.a, instead of assuming "well, then we'll have an illegal gun problem?"

[Thafoo]

If you outlaw laws, only outlaws will have laws...

[Icatus]

And how do you plan to ensure that gangs don't have guns? Make them illegal? Because guess what - criminals don't obey the law. I mean, the UK has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the world, and gangs still get hold of guns here...

You would use the police to stop them.

Not that simple.

EDIT: I'd go on a rant and explanation why it isn't that simple, but I'll restrain myself because I'm sleepy and I probably type incoherent gibberish, and/or make myself look like a moron.

[Keyboard Warriors]

My original point was to do with gun control being unable to prevent criminals from acquiring guns. Besides, other crime rates in Britain are much higher than the US. Maybe (speculation, again I'll go look for evidence) that's because only the criminals are armed.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/aug/30/ukcrime1

All I'm saying is, that because we have a problem with legal guns, which you acknowledged, shouldn't we do something about it.a, instead of assuming "well, then we'll have an illegal gun problem?"

As gun control opponents love to point out, the vast majority of illegal firearms were once legal firearms. We of course have a problem with legal firearms, namely we're really bad at stopping them from becoming illegal firearms.

[New Aerios]

My original point was to do with gun control being unable to prevent criminals from acquiring guns. Besides, other crime rates in Britain are much higher than the US. Maybe (speculation, again I'll go look for evidence) that's because only the criminals are armed.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/aug/30/ukcrime1

All I'm saying is, that because we have a problem with legal guns, which you acknowledged, shouldn't we do something about it.a, instead of assuming "well, then we'll have an illegal gun problem?"

US gun homicide stats are measured in a rather strange manner. They don't go on whether a person is found guilty of murder, but on whether a person was killed. This means that even if a person is found not guilty - like in the case of self defence - they will still be a little number on a homicide rate graph. US gun homicide rate is an unreliable statistic, as it is bloated by lawful killings - those in defence of self or others. Therefore, the " problem" is almost certainly nowhere near as bad as it seems from looking at the numbers.

Ooh, and I've put a couple more sources and articles in a previous post.

[Bombadil]

If you outlaw laws, only outlaws will have laws...

Guns don't kill people, people kill people.. but I think guns help.

Eddie Izzard

[United Martains]

I've just been looking in to gun laws, so might as well discuss it here. Where on earth is the logic to say that more guns stop gun violence? If anyone actually looked into the statistics (like I have been doing), you will find that countries which allow the use of firearms have higher firearm related deaths, and countries with more restrictive gun laws have lower firearm related deaths. So why on earth do people suggest that restrictive gun laws don't stop gun violence?