Yes,The Framers knew there would be semi automatic weapons.

[Galter Gulcher]

The Founding Fathers did know there would be semi automatic weaponry when they wrote the Second Amendment. But how you ask? There were some relatively unsuccessful semi automatic weaponry designed before that point, these included the Puckle Gun, invented in 1718 by a Brit named James Puckle. Now, you might say. "That! That was just a relatively small and unknown invention that never went anywhere." You might think so until you hear of the Kalthoff repeater, it was used extensively by the Royal Foot Guards of Denmark who were issued a couple hundred of them during the Siege of Copenhagen. Well, you still might claim that the Founding Fathers never heard of these. Well, look now at the Girandoni Air Rifle, it was a Austrian air rifle used QUITE extensively in the Austrian Army, in fact, the Lewis-Clark expedition was equipped with one of these weapons. Now, you might say that this only reached America in 1804, thus my claim is null and void. BUT NOW, I unveil to you...The Belton flintlock! Yes, this flintlock rifle was capable of firing "sixteen or twenty [balls], in sixteen, ten, or five seconds of time". " now, in case you have any doubt that the Founding Fathers knew of this weapon,it might interest you to know that the same Belton Flintlock was offered to the Continental Congress, whom showed interest in purchasing a quantity of Belton Flintlocks. However, the deal never went through. However, the Continental Congress was now well aware of the concept of semi-automatic weaponry. Many members of the Continental Congress later became Framers of the constitution.


So, all you haters, I have presented you with evidence that the Framers, glory be upon them were well aware of the existence and future of high capacity, fast shooting weaponry. Your rebuttal?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puckle_Gun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalthoff_repeater
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girandoni_Air_Rifle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belton_flintlock

[Caninope]

Well, I'm a huge supporter of the 2nd Amendment, but I feel as if taking this giant justification to appeal to the Founding Fathers is rather useless (even if we use originalism as our Constitutional philosophy).

[Dyakovo]

The Founding Fathers did know there would be semi automatic weaponry when they wrote the Second Amendment. But how you ask? There were some relatively unsuccessful semi automatic weaponry designed before that point, these included the Puckle Gun, invented in 1718 by a Brit named James Puckle. Now, you might say. "That! That was just a relatively small and unknown invention that never went anywhere." You might think so until you hear of the Kalthoff repeater, it was used extensively by the Royal Foot Guards of Denmark who were issued a couple hundred of them during the Siege of Copenhagen. Well, you still might claim that the Founding Fathers never heard of these. Well, look now at the Girandoni Air Rifle, it was a Austrian air rifle used QUITE extensively in the Austrian Army, in fact, the Lewis-Clark expedition was equipped with one of these weapons. Now, you might say that this only reached America in 1804, thus my claim is null and void. BUT NOW, I unveil to you...The Belton flintlock! Yes, this flintlock rifle was capable of firing "sixteen or twenty [balls], in sixteen, ten, or five seconds of time". " now, in case you have any doubt that the Founding Fathers knew of this weapon,it might interest you to know that the same Belton Flintlock was offered to the Continental Congress, whom showed interest in purchasing a quantity of Belton Flintlocks. However, the deal never went through. However, the Continental Congress was now well aware of the concept of semi-automatic weaponry. Many members of the Continental Congress later became Framers of the constitution.


So, all you haters, I have presented you with evidence that the Framers, glory be upon them were well aware of the existence and future of high capacity, fast shooting weaponry. Your rebuttal?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puckle_Gun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalthoff_repeater
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girandoni_Air_Rifle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belton_flintlock

What's your point?

[Galter Gulcher]

The Founding Fathers did know there would be semi automatic weaponry when they wrote the Second Amendment. But how you ask? There were some relatively unsuccessful semi automatic weaponry designed before that point, these included the Puckle Gun, invented in 1718 by a Brit named James Puckle. Now, you might say. "That! That was just a relatively small and unknown invention that never went anywhere." You might think so until you hear of the Kalthoff repeater, it was used extensively by the Royal Foot Guards of Denmark who were issued a couple hundred of them during the Siege of Copenhagen. Well, you still might claim that the Founding Fathers never heard of these. Well, look now at the Girandoni Air Rifle, it was a Austrian air rifle used QUITE extensively in the Austrian Army, in fact, the Lewis-Clark expedition was equipped with one of these weapons. Now, you might say that this only reached America in 1804, thus my claim is null and void. BUT NOW, I unveil to you...The Belton flintlock! Yes, this flintlock rifle was capable of firing "sixteen or twenty [balls], in sixteen, ten, or five seconds of time". " now, in case you have any doubt that the Founding Fathers knew of this weapon,it might interest you to know that the same Belton Flintlock was offered to the Continental Congress, whom showed interest in purchasing a quantity of Belton Flintlocks. However, the deal never went through. However, the Continental Congress was now well aware of the concept of semi-automatic weaponry. Many members of the Continental Congress later became Framers of the constitution.


So, all you haters, I have presented you with evidence that the Framers, glory be upon them were well aware of the existence and future of high capacity, fast shooting weaponry. Your rebuttal?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puckle_Gun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalthoff_repeater
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girandoni_Air_Rifle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belton_flintlock

What's your point?

That the claim that the Founding Fathers never imagined the creation of modern day weapons is utterly baseless.

[Draica]

While this demolishes Piers Morgan's ideology, the vampires in Chicago don't care if the framers knew about it. They want to keep the guns in the criminal's hands.

[Dyakovo]

What's your point?

That the claim that the Founding Fathers never imagined the creation of modern day weapons is utterly baseless.

Okay? Who cares?

[Galter Gulcher]

That the claim that the Founding Fathers never imagined the creation of modern day weapons is utterly baseless.

Okay? Who cares?

Amurica.

[Avenio]

Methinks that basing an entire system of government on the exact, in context opinions of people that lived 300 years ago is pretty flawed from the outset, but whatever floats your boat, OP.

[Draica]

Methinks that basing an entire system of government on the exact, in context opinions of people that lived 300 years ago is pretty flawed from the outset, but whatever floats your boat, OP.

*Coughcough* The people who founded this country. *cough*

[Dyakovo]

Methinks that basing an entire system of government on the exact, in context opinions of people that lived 300 years ago is pretty flawed from the outset, but whatever floats your boat, OP.

*Coughcough* The people who founded this country. *cough*

And?
They weren't infallible.

[Draica]

*Coughcough* The people who founded this country. *cough*

And?
They weren't infallible.

Nope, but they established this country. We now have the founders on our side, what do you gun control people have?

[Fascist Russian Empire]

And? Gun control shouldn't be used because it's a fucking stupid idea (#ProhibitionDoesn'tWork), not because a few people who died centuries ago knew what semi-automatic guns were. The "founding fathers" were just a bunch of revolutionaries who happened to win a war; there's nothing special about them and they don't matter anymore than anyone else.

[Dyakovo]

And?
They weren't infallible.

Nope, but they established this country.

Immaterial.

[Dyakovo]

And? Gun control shouldn't be used because it's a fucking stupid idea (#ProhibitionDoesn'tWork), not because a few people who died centuries ago knew what semi-automatic guns were. The "founding fathers" were just a bunch of revolutionaries who happened to win a war; there's nothing special about them and they don't matter anymore than anyone else.

Gun control =/= gun ban

[Fascist Russian Empire]

And? Gun control shouldn't be used because it's a fucking stupid idea (#ProhibitionDoesn'tWork), not because a few people who died centuries ago knew what semi-automatic guns were. The "founding fathers" were just a bunch of revolutionaries who happened to win a war; there's nothing special about them and they don't matter anymore than anyone else.

Gun control =/= gun ban

Same general concept. "Person A can have a gun, Person B can't!" But, just because the law says Person B can't own a gun doesn't mean jack shit, since he can just buy a gun illegally off of the extensive black market for firearms.

[Dyakovo]

Gun control =/= gun ban

Same general concept. "Person A can have a gun, Person B can't!" But, just because the law says Person B can't own a gun doesn't mean jack shit, since he can just buy a gun illegally off of the extensive black market for firearms.

Not even close.

[Infected Mushroom]

The Founding Fathers did know there would be semi automatic weaponry when they wrote the Second Amendment. But how you ask? There were some relatively unsuccessful semi automatic weaponry designed before that point, these included the Puckle Gun, invented in 1718 by a Brit named James Puckle. Now, you might say. "That! That was just a relatively small and unknown invention that never went anywhere." You might think so until you hear of the Kalthoff repeater, it was used extensively by the Royal Foot Guards of Denmark who were issued a couple hundred of them during the Siege of Copenhagen. Well, you still might claim that the Founding Fathers never heard of these. Well, look now at the Girandoni Air Rifle, it was a Austrian air rifle used QUITE extensively in the Austrian Army, in fact, the Lewis-Clark expedition was equipped with one of these weapons. Now, you might say that this only reached America in 1804, thus my claim is null and void. BUT NOW, I unveil to you...The Belton flintlock! Yes, this flintlock rifle was capable of firing "sixteen or twenty [balls], in sixteen, ten, or five seconds of time". " now, in case you have any doubt that the Founding Fathers knew of this weapon,it might interest you to know that the same Belton Flintlock was offered to the Continental Congress, whom showed interest in purchasing a quantity of Belton Flintlocks. However, the deal never went through. However, the Continental Congress was now well aware of the concept of semi-automatic weaponry. Many members of the Continental Congress later became Framers of the constitution.


So, all you haters, I have presented you with evidence that the Framers, glory be upon them were well aware of the existence and future of high capacity, fast shooting weaponry. Your rebuttal?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puckle_Gun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalthoff_repeater
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girandoni_Air_Rifle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belton_flintlock

ok maybe they knew...

but i still disagree with their views and i think the 2nd Amendment should never have been added. US would have been a better place from the start if guns were banned/closed to completely banned like in every other advanced democracy...

i don't think we would have had all those school shootings and stuff...

didn't the founding fathers own slaves too? i don't their views should count for much...

[The New Lowlands]

You know, most nations consider ancestor-worship to be uncivilised.

[Draica]

And? Gun control shouldn't be used because it's a fucking stupid idea (#ProhibitionDoesn'tWork), not because a few people who died centuries ago knew what semi-automatic guns were. The "founding fathers" were just a bunch of revolutionaries who happened to win a war; there's nothing special about them and they don't matter anymore than anyone else.

A bunch of revolutionaries, hm? Well, I think those "a bunch of revolutionaries" for setting an example for the world.

FACT: The United States of America was the first nation on the planet that was born out of the idea that people had the capacity to totally govern themselves.

FACT: The United States in that time period was one of the first countries to protect the right of thought, speech AND Religion. inFACT the U.S. was the first country ever to protect Freedom of Religion.

I mean, come on, the framers were brilliant.

[The New Lowlands]

And? Gun control shouldn't be used because it's a fucking stupid idea (#ProhibitionDoesn'tWork), not because a few people who died centuries ago knew what semi-automatic guns were. The "founding fathers" were just a bunch of revolutionaries who happened to win a war; there's nothing special about them and they don't matter anymore than anyone else.

A bunch of revolutionaries, hm? Well, I think those "a bunch of revolutionaries" for setting an example for the world.

FACT: The United States of America was the first nation on the planet that was born out of the idea that people had the capacity to totally govern themselves.

FACT: The United States in that time period was one of the first countries to protect the right of thought, speech AND Religion. inFACT the U.S. was the first country ever to protect Freedom of Religion.

I mean, come on, the framers were brilliant.

And therefore, they become the everlasting omniscient leaders of government?

[Dyakovo]

And? Gun control shouldn't be used because it's a fucking stupid idea (#ProhibitionDoesn'tWork), not because a few people who died centuries ago knew what semi-automatic guns were. The "founding fathers" were just a bunch of revolutionaries who happened to win a war; there's nothing special about them and they don't matter anymore than anyone else.

A bunch of revolutionaries, hm? Well, I think those "a bunch of revolutionaries" for setting an example for the world.

FACT: The United States of America was the first nation on the planet that was born out of the idea that people had the capacity to totally govern themselves.

FACT: The United States in that time period was one of the first countries to protect the right of thought, speech AND Religion. inFACT the U.S. was the first country ever to protect Freedom of Religion.

I mean, come on, the framers were brilliant.

The City-State of Yathrib disagrees.
As does the Islamic Caliphate.
As does India.
As does Poland.

[Fascist Russian Empire]

Not even close.

Regulating who can buy guns and what kind of guns they can buy is pretty fucking similar, if you ask me.

A bunch of revolutionaries, hm? Well, I think those "a bunch of revolutionaries" for setting an example for the world.

1: FACT: The United States of America was the first nation on the planet that was born out of the idea that people had the capacity to totally govern themselves.

2: FACT: The United States in that time period was one of the first countries to protect the right of thought, speech AND Religion. inFACT the U.S. was the first country ever to protect Freedom of Religion.

I mean, come on, the framers were brilliant.

1: Um, no. Athens was the first democratic nation on the planet, and there had been tons of republics between the time of the Athenians and the American Revolution. Saying that the US was the first nation to hold the ideal that people can govern themselves is blatantly false.

2: The US was not, by any means, the first country to protect freedom of religion. Religious freedom was somewhat protected in the Holy Roman Empire since the Peace of Augsburg and the Peace of Westphalia. Not to mention that the early Muslim states were mostly tolerant of Christians, and the only form of discrimination against them was slightly elevated taxes.

[Dyakovo]

Not even close.

Regulating who can buy guns and what kind of guns they can buy is pretty fucking similar, if you ask me.

Only if you have no fucking clue.

[Draica]

The Founding Fathers did know there would be semi automatic weaponry when they wrote the Second Amendment. But how you ask? There were some relatively unsuccessful semi automatic weaponry designed before that point, these included the Puckle Gun, invented in 1718 by a Brit named James Puckle. Now, you might say. "That! That was just a relatively small and unknown invention that never went anywhere." You might think so until you hear of the Kalthoff repeater, it was used extensively by the Royal Foot Guards of Denmark who were issued a couple hundred of them during the Siege of Copenhagen. Well, you still might claim that the Founding Fathers never heard of these. Well, look now at the Girandoni Air Rifle, it was a Austrian air rifle used QUITE extensively in the Austrian Army, in fact, the Lewis-Clark expedition was equipped with one of these weapons. Now, you might say that this only reached America in 1804, thus my claim is null and void. BUT NOW, I unveil to you...The Belton flintlock! Yes, this flintlock rifle was capable of firing "sixteen or twenty [balls], in sixteen, ten, or five seconds of time". " now, in case you have any doubt that the Founding Fathers knew of this weapon,it might interest you to know that the same Belton Flintlock was offered to the Continental Congress, whom showed interest in purchasing a quantity of Belton Flintlocks. However, the deal never went through. However, the Continental Congress was now well aware of the concept of semi-automatic weaponry. Many members of the Continental Congress later became Framers of the constitution.


So, all you haters, I have presented you with evidence that the Framers, glory be upon them were well aware of the existence and future of high capacity, fast shooting weaponry. Your rebuttal?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puckle_Gun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalthoff_repeater
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girandoni_Air_Rifle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belton_flintlock

ok maybe they knew...

but i still disagree with their views and i think the 2nd Amendment should never have been added. US would have been a better place from the start if guns were banned/closed to completely banned like in every other advanced democracy...

i don't think we would have had all those school shootings and stuff...

didn't the founding fathers own slaves too? i don't their views should count for much...

Yes, let's get rid of guns like Australia so we can have statistics like:


In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.

Moreover, Australia and the United States -- where no gun-ban exists -- both experienced similar decreases in murder rates:

Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease; without a gun ban, America's rate dropped 31.7 percent.
During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8 percent: rape dropped 19.2 percent; robbery decreased 33.2 percent; aggravated assault dropped 32.2 percent.
Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women.



Or Sweden, where it has a high sex crime/rape rate. It has gun control *thumbs up*. Nonsense.

[New Grestin]

You know, most nations consider ancestor-worship to be uncivilised.

A bit baseless, actually. Ancestor worship and veneration of the dead is quite common and acceptable throughout Asia, as well as several other countries around the world.

But back to the topic at hand, yeah, the Founding fathers probably could have anticipated the existence of semi-automatic weaponry. But I don't think this is really relevant. Yes, basing an entire political system on the beliefs of rich white aristocrats from several hundred years ago is a bit silly, I'm still not even sure why we do it. However, gun control SHOULD be used, because let's be frank about something very simple that few gun nuts and gun advocates fail to acknowledge.

The general public is stupid.

The general public shouldn't be trusted with guns, heck, you can't even trust them to vote smart people into power, you think they can handle a chunk of metal and plastic that fires rounds at several hundred miles an hour? No, no you can't. What we should be doing is running background checks, psychiatric exams, and keeping automatics out of the hands of the general public. Hunting rifles, shotguns, revolvers, handguns and the like are perfectly reasonable to own, both for home defense and hunting. But do people really need to own a H&K G36C with a holographic sight and beta magazine? No.