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Gun lovers' paranoia helps stimulate the economy

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Trve
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Gun lovers' paranoia helps stimulate the economy

Postby Trve » Mon May 04, 2009 1:24 pm

I posted this on the jolt forum, briefly forgetting we had this shiney new one.

AURORA, Colorado (CNN) -- Gun shops across the country are reporting a run on ammunition, a phenomenon apparently driven by fear that the Obama administration will increase taxes on bullets or enact new gun-control measures.

"In the last two months it's gotten very, very difficult to find ammunition," says Richard Taylor, manager of The Firing Line, a gun shop and shooting range in the Denver, Colorado, suburbs.

"There are a lot of rumors floating around that the present government would like to increase taxes on ammunition. I think [there is] just a lot of panicked buying going on."

While campaigning for the White House, Obama supported re-enacting the now-expired ban on assault weapons. But there is no indication that the administration will take up that measure -- or any other gun-control initiative --anytime soon.

Nonetheless, some gun owners aren't taking any chances.

Two weeks ago, The Firing Line was forced to impose a four-box-per-customer limit on ammo. Before that, the shop was selling 10,000 rounds of 9 mm handgun ammunition a day.

Some calibers of ammunition have been unavailable for months.

"Currently no .380 ammunition -- I haven't seen any for about four months ... .38 special, it's been at least a couple of months," Taylor says. "It's just that there's been a huge demand and it's far outweighed supply right now."

Taylor says plenty of people are still coming to the range to shoot, but are gun owners hoarding ammo?

"People are buying cases or whatever they can get their hands on and putting it away, absolutely," he says. "The only way that this shortage can have to do with it is that people are buying and hoarding."

Karl Roos, a physician, stopped by the range to do some shooting with his Smith and Wesson .357-caliber Magnum, using some rounds from his personal stock of ammo.

"I have yet to see .38 special or .357 Magnum ammunition on the shelf. The stuff I'm shooting I've had for several years. I just haven't seen it for the last several months," says Roos, who adds he is always on the lookout for fresh sources of ammo. "As I'm doing the rounds of the local stores that carry ammunition, if I see something on the shelf I'll buy it."

"I'm not too worried about things being banned or anything like that," he says. But he notes that many of his fellow gun enthusiasts are scared: "There's definitely a lot of fear."

Jim Minardi, a gun dealer in Lakewood, Colorado, says only a few people are actually hoarding. But they are buying up so much ammo that there isn't much left on the shelves.

"The minority of our customers are stockpiling ammunition," Minardi says. "The majority are standard shooters buying what they can."

Wal-Mart is one of the largest ammo dealers in the United States. In an e-mail exchange, a Wal-Mart spokesman confirmed that ammo sales have been brisk.

"Some Wal-Mart stores have experienced an increase in demand for guns and ammo and for those locations, we are working closely with suppliers to replenish shelves," says William C. Wertz, the discount chain's divisional director for public affairs and government relations. "In some situations where demand is high, so that we can better serve all customers, we will place a limit on the amount of a product that can be purchased."

"It's no different with ammo than other products (toilet paper, batteries, etc.) that may be in short supply for one reason or another."

Each year U.S. ammo manufacturers make about 8 billion rounds, according to the National Shooting Sports Foundation, the trade association for the firearms and ammunition industry. Current production data won't be in until late May, but the foundation expects the numbers to be way up.

"In order to keep up with demand for ammunition, manufacturers are working at full capacity, 24-7," says Ted Novin, an NSSF spokesman. "Currently demand for ammunition is outpacing supply."

Novin says he believes the reason is clear.

"The increase in demand for firearms and ammunition is largely attributable to gun owner concerns regarding the current political climate," says Novin, referring to the Obama administration and the Democrat-controlled Congress.

"Many of the lawmakers in power have a long history of supporting legislation that violates the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding Americans," Novin adds. "Gun owners recognize this and are reacting accordingly."

Ammunition manufacturers have been scrambling to keep up with demand.

A message from Steve Hornady, president of Hornady Ammunition, on the company's Web site reads:

"Here at Hornady Manufacturing we are breaking our own production records in an attempt to keep up with customer demand. We have added extra shifts, machinery and we are also in the process of expanding our manufacturing plant."

Winchester Ammunition posted a similar statement:

"Winchester Ammunition, like other ammunition manufacturers, has seen the demand for our products increase significantly since last fall. To meet that increased demand, our operations are running 24 hours a day, 7 days a week."

Andrew Arulanandam, communications director of the National Rifle Association, says the "unprecedented ammo shortages are widespread, and they affect small and large retailers."

"We have heard from members across the country in cities and in small towns from California to Maine," Arulanandam says. "There is a fear that Congress or the new administration will push for a firearm or an ammunition ban, or for a significant increase in excise taxes on firearms and ammunition. We hear this from hunters, target shooters and even from first-time gun owners who fear that there will be an effort to incrementally curtail and eventually dismantle this freedom."

Back at The Firing Line's gun range, pilot Ron Cardwell is working on his target shooting with his 9 mm semiautomatic pistol. He loves to shoot and hopes the ammo crisis ends soon.

"I have three or four boxes of 9 mm left at home and a couple of boxes of .45," he says. "I'm just buying as much as I can whenever I can


http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/05/04/ammo.s ... topstories


Ok, so that might be a bit of a stretch, but its becoming really hard to buy bullets lately, because you cant find em anywhere. Apperantly a lot of the gun nuts in the country have been listening to the Blob and Beck and are convinced, CONVINCED I TELL YOU that Obama is going to enact a higher tax on bullets or some other such nonsense with no basis in reality, so theyre going out and buying up all the bullets they can. And of course, we have the demagouges in the NRA doing the "AAAAH EVIL DEMOCRATS HATE UR RIGHTZ!!!!" dance, which is just adding fuel to the buying frenzy.

On the plus side, hey, its consumer spending. Glad to see theyre doing their part to increase consumer spending, and by extension, help the economy. Now if only they were buying something useful in bulk....

Of course, maybe theyre just arming their militias for a coming attempt at sucession. FORT SUMTER!!!!
Last edited by Trve on Mon May 04, 2009 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gun lovers' paranoia helps stimulate the economy

Postby Hurdegaryp » Mon May 04, 2009 3:46 pm

You can say what you want, but at least Obama's presidency stimulates the increased consumption of consumer goods. As a citizen of a nation without a pseudo-religious gun cultus I find it a bit odd that said consumer goods all have to do something with wounding and/or ending organic life, but it's not my place to criticize other people's choices. Mind you, it's also not my place to criticize the armed forces of a legitimate democratic government when they move in to neutralize militia forces within their own borders.
Last edited by Hurdegaryp on Mon May 04, 2009 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
CVT Temp wrote:I mean, we can actually create a mathematical definition for evolution in terms of the evolutionary algorithm and then write code to deal with abstract instances of evolution, which basically equates to mathematical proof that evolution works. All that remains is to show that biological systems replicate in such a way as to satisfy the minimal criteria required for evolution to apply to them, something which has already been adequately shown time and again. At this point, we've pretty much proven that not only can evolution happen, it pretty much must happen since it's basically impossible to prevent it from happening.



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Midlauthia
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Re: Gun lovers' paranoia helps stimulate the economy

Postby Midlauthia » Mon May 04, 2009 6:01 pm

Or, maybe they are arming to protect their southern border since the government is too corrupt/doesn't care enough to do it themselves.

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Lucretia Borgia
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Re: Gun lovers' paranoia helps stimulate the economy

Postby Lucretia Borgia » Mon May 04, 2009 8:23 pm

Trve wrote:Ok, so that might be a bit of a stretch, but its becoming really hard to buy bullets lately, because you cant find em anywhere. Apperantly a lot of the gun nuts in the country have been listening to the Blob and Beck and are convinced, CONVINCED I TELL YOU that Obama is going to enact a higher tax on bullets or some other such nonsense with no basis in reality, so theyre going out and buying up all the bullets they can. And of course, we have the demagouges in the NRA doing the "AAAAH EVIL DEMOCRATS HATE UR RIGHTZ!!!!" dance, which is just adding fuel to the buying frenzy.

On the plus side, hey, its consumer spending. Glad to see theyre doing their part to increase consumer spending, and by extension, help the economy. Now if only they were buying something useful in bulk....

Of course, maybe theyre just arming their militias for a coming attempt at sucession. FORT SUMTER!!!!


First of all let me point out that there is absolutely nothing wrong with owning firearms. It's a Constitutionally protected right. Secondly, as far as Democrats hating gun rights is absolutely true for the most part. Their records speak for themselves. Most anti-gun legislation is usually proposed by Democrats and gets it's main support from Democrats. Just to cite two examples, both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama have both stated time and again that they'd like more gun laws. In fact right now there is a bill in Congress for stricter gun laws. H.R. 45 Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009 would require gun owners to have to apply for a gun license every 5 years. Recently there was also legislation to limit the amount of ammunition a gun owner could purchase per month(I forget the name of the bill). So the paranoia is quite justified. If you count the fact that in recent years Americans Constitutional rights have been systematically stripped away this can only add to the paranoia. I do believe the Democrats believe they are doing this for the good of the people by creating gun laws, but their logic is flawed. It has been proven time and again that the stricter the gun laws are crime actually increases. When you take away guns from the people only two types of people have access. The government/police and the criminals. We've seen it throughout the world. Gun bans equal crime rate spikes.

On one final note. You talk of secession as if it were a bad thing. You must remember; were it not for secession there would be no United States of America.
Last edited by Lucretia Borgia on Mon May 04, 2009 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Trve
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Re: Gun lovers' paranoia helps stimulate the economy

Postby Trve » Mon May 04, 2009 8:34 pm

Im glad the crazies came with to this new forum.
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Re: Gun lovers' paranoia helps stimulate the economy

Postby Aschenhyrst » Mon May 04, 2009 8:39 pm

Two months?
It`s been like this since late November. Theories abound as to why the shortage. Lead, copper and brass going overseas, the Obama administration is going to do this or that, etc. A driving force is fear. People who have never purchased a gun or ammo are doing so, some likely hoping to profiteer from the fear mentality.

Gun lover`s paranoia?
My purchasing and stockpiling have only changed by Obama being president by my not buying in bulk anymore, I can`t afford to at these prices.

National gun license?
Unfortuanately, due to the evil blot on my state known as Chicago. Every resident of Illinois has had to ask big brother permission to exersize their right to own a gun for nearly 40 years. The Firearms Owners ID card or FOID is nothing but a money making sham.
Last edited by Aschenhyrst on Mon May 04, 2009 8:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Lucretia Borgia
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Re: Gun lovers' paranoia helps stimulate the economy

Postby Lucretia Borgia » Mon May 04, 2009 8:46 pm

Trve wrote:Im glad the crazies came with to this new forum.



Loving the Constitution and respecting it for the limitations it puts on government and the rights it protects for me makes me a crazy? Knowing my history and not being blinded by propaganda makes me crazy? Expecting my government to uphold it's oath to the Constitution and gain the consent of the governed makes me crazy?

No. It is those that allow the government to destroy their rights, devalue their dollar, and run their economy into the ground while never saying a word are the crazy ones. Blind acceptance of government policy is what makes one crazy. So again I ask, having my own opinions and beliefs that do not coincide with the status quo of government makes me crazy? Well if that is the case; I do not want sanity.

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Trve
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Re: Gun lovers' paranoia helps stimulate the economy

Postby Trve » Mon May 04, 2009 8:47 pm

Lucretia Borgia wrote:First of all let me point out that there is absolutely nothing wrong with owning firearms. It's a Constitutionally protected right.

So far so good.
Secondly, as far as Democrats hating gun rights is absolutely true for the most part. Their records speak for themselves. Most anti-gun legislation is usually proposed by Democrats and gets it's main support from Democrats. Just to cite two examples, both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama have both stated time and again that they'd like more gun laws.

There isnt anything wrong with a ban on assualt weapons.
In fact right now there is a bill in Congress for stricter gun laws. H.R. 45 Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009 would require gun owners to have to apply for a gun license every 5 years. Recently there was also legislation to limit the amount of ammunition a gun owner could purchase per month(I forget the name of the bill).

Source.
So the paranoia is quite justified.

Not really.
If you count the fact that in recent years Americans Constitutional rights have been systematically stripped away this can only add to the paranoia.

You not being able to own a submachine gun isnt as big a concern as you not getting a trial.
I do believe the Democrats believe they are doing this for the good of the people by creating gun laws, but their logic is flawed. It has been proven time and again that the stricter the gun laws are crime actually increases.

Well, this is a big fat lie. Or its stunning ignorance. The US actually has either higher crime rates then our fellow first world nations that have stricter gun laws, some of which ban guns all together, or similar crime rates.
When you take away guns from the people only two types of people have access. The government/police and the criminals.

Which explains all the mass shootings in Europe that occur on a regular basis.

Oh wait...
We've seen it throughout the world. Gun bans equal crime rate spikes.

Repeating the lie doesnt make it true.
On one final note. You talk of secession as if it were a bad thing. You must remember; were it not for secession there would be no United States of America.

Ah, and which oppressive government that doesnt give you representation are you seceeding from?

Losing an election doesnt mean you arent represented.
Last edited by Trve on Mon May 04, 2009 8:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Trve
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Re: Gun lovers' paranoia helps stimulate the economy

Postby Trve » Mon May 04, 2009 8:48 pm

Lucretia Borgia wrote:
Trve wrote:Im glad the crazies came with to this new forum.



Loving the Constitution and respecting it for the limitations it puts on government and the rights it protects for me makes me a crazy? Knowing my history and not being blinded by propaganda makes me crazy? Expecting my government to uphold it's oath to the Constitution and gain the consent of the governed makes me crazy?

No. It is those that allow the government to destroy their rights, devalue their dollar, and run their economy into the ground while never saying a word are the crazy ones. Blind acceptance of government policy is what makes one crazy. So again I ask, having my own opinions and beliefs that do not coincide with the status quo of government makes me crazy? Well if that is the case; I do not want sanity.


No, but your often repeated lies and the crap you spew about secession and an oppresive government that is only held in check by those who own guns does.
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Re: Gun lovers' paranoia helps stimulate the economy

Postby Annexea » Mon May 04, 2009 8:50 pm

First of all let me point out that there is absolutely nothing wrong with owning firearms. It's a Constitutionally protected right.


There is also nothing wrong with regulating firearms, another Constitutionally protected right. Don't imply the second amendment gives people the right to do whatever they want with them.

On one final note. You talk of secession as if it were a bad thing. You must remember; were it not for secession there would be no United States of America.


Not to wander into a tangent, but this seems laughably paradoxical - that secession is a unifying force; by definition, it is quite the opposite.

When you take away guns from the people only two types of people have access. The government/police and the criminals. We've seen it throughout the world. Gun bans equal crime rate spikes.


Correlation doesn't imply causation. In fact, violent crime has been curbed significantly through long term gun restrictions like the licensing you seem to resent in many countries. And "taking away guns," which I agree is an idiotic thing to attempt, is not the same as, say, assault weapon bans or restrictions, waiting periods, etc. Your invocation of the traditional gun-nut straw man of "they'll take away our guns!" is saddening to me, but I suppose to be expected.

Edit: It seems I'm not the first to respond here.

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Re: Gun lovers' paranoia helps stimulate the economy

Postby Trve » Mon May 04, 2009 8:54 pm

Annexea wrote:There is also nothing wrong with regulating firearms, another Constitutionally protected right. Don't imply the second amendment gives people the right to do whatever they want with them.

No no, he's right. We dont ever regulate the rights laid out in the Bill of Rights. This is why there are no limitations on speech.


Wait. Oh shi-
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Lucretia Borgia
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Re: Gun lovers' paranoia helps stimulate the economy

Postby Lucretia Borgia » Mon May 04, 2009 9:01 pm

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-45 http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:h45: http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h45/show

Just to make sure you don't accuse me of lying. I'd also like to point out in regards to the oppressive government part, The Patriot Act, the Military Commissions Act, the NSA wiretaps in collusion with AT&T and the continued support of those. Suspension of habeas corpus and DHS checkpoints all across the southwestern US. I could point out other examples if need be. I'd also like to point out that Switzerland consistently ranks very low in all violent crime ratings and they have a mandatory gun ownership law.

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Re: Gun lovers' paranoia helps stimulate the economy

Postby Trve » Mon May 04, 2009 9:03 pm

Aschenhyrst wrote:National gun license?
Unfortuanately, due to the evil blot on my state known as Chicago. Every resident of Illinois has had to ask big brother permission to exersize their right to own a gun for nearly 40 years. The Firearms Owners ID card or FOID is nothing but a money making sham.

Yeah, damn IL, making you register your fire arms and actually have a liscense!

I know all about FOID dude, I live in the northern burbs. Youre not being oppressed by big brother. Its called gun control. And its legal. And sane.
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Re: Gun lovers' paranoia helps stimulate the economy

Postby Trve » Mon May 04, 2009 9:07 pm


So, you have two bills about tracking guns, and one that your own source says probably wont be passed, and it has NO COSPONSERS. How exactly does that disprove that theyre being paranoid?

I also notice a lack of a bill about limiting ammo consumption.
Just to make sure you don't accuse me of lying.

Then dont lie.

But maybe you arent lying. Maybe you just are ignorant. Or cant read.
I'd also like to point out in regards to the oppressive government part, The Patriot Act, the Military Commissions Act, the NSA wiretaps in collusion with AT&T and the continued support of those. Suspension of habeas corpus and DHS checkpoints all across the southwestern US. I could point out other examples if need be.

I know all about those. As I said, you not being allowed to own a submachine gun is much, much lower on the 'oppression' scale then you not getting a trial.
I'd also like to point out that Switzerland consistently ranks very low in all violent crime ratings and they have a mandatory gun ownership law.

That doesnt prove its BECAUSE of the gun ownership laws. That doesnt prove causation. Why dont you prove causation?

And even if you did (but you wont), thats just ONE example.
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Annexea
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Re: Gun lovers' paranoia helps stimulate the economy

Postby Annexea » Mon May 04, 2009 9:12 pm

Lucretia Borgia wrote:
Trve wrote:Im glad the crazies came with to this new forum.



Loving the Constitution and respecting it for the limitations it puts on government and the rights it protects for me makes me a crazy? Knowing my history and not being blinded by propaganda makes me crazy? Expecting my government to uphold it's oath to the Constitution and gain the consent of the governed makes me crazy? Blind acceptance of government policy is what makes one crazy.


How is this acceptance blind? It is insane to question indefinitely, to never have a foundation of beliefs. Contrarianism for its own sake is insane, with the incessant, counterproductive questioning. I at least have considered the issues and come to an informed conclusion, and I can only assume other have done the same. You admit yourself that the liberals have thought about this and consider it to be good; that it is wrong is not an issue of blindness, but of absolute wrongness in your binary worldview.

And might I add, you speak of the Constitution as if it were a fading idol, lost to the ignorant masses. Sounds like blind acceptance to me. The Constitution isn't a timeless, immutable, infallible foundation of law, as much as you might fantasize that it is.

So again I ask, having my own opinions and beliefs that do not coincide with the status quo of government makes me crazy? Well if that is the case; I do not want sanity.


No, that doesn't inherently make you crazy. But the contradictions within your own arguments show you're stuck in an inconsistent viewpoint, fueled by whatever bitterness you have. Of course, if you don't want sanity, that's fine by me - insanity, at least, is quite consistent with your secessionist ramblings.

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Re: Gun lovers' paranoia helps stimulate the economy

Postby Auman » Mon May 04, 2009 9:21 pm

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean no one is out to get you.
IBNFTW local 8492

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Trve
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Re: Gun lovers' paranoia helps stimulate the economy

Postby Trve » Mon May 04, 2009 9:23 pm

Auman wrote:Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean no one is out to get you.

All right Kissinger ;)
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Re: Gun lovers' paranoia helps stimulate the economy

Postby Trve » Mon May 04, 2009 9:24 pm

Midlauthia wrote:Or, maybe they are arming to protect their southern border since the government is too corrupt/doesn't care enough to do it themselves.

You know, I was just going to ignore this, but I have to ask...

Protect it from what? Is the Mexican army massing on the border?
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Re: Gun lovers' paranoia helps stimulate the economy

Postby Midlauthia » Tue May 05, 2009 12:55 pm

Trve wrote:
Midlauthia wrote:Or, maybe they are arming to protect their southern border since the government is too corrupt/doesn't care enough to do it themselves.

You know, I was just going to ignore this, but I have to ask...

Protect it from what? Is the Mexican army massing on the border?

I don't know, maybe the rampant drug trafficking and illegal FIREARMS flowing across people's backyards, especially in Texas.

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Midlauthia
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Postby Midlauthia » Tue May 05, 2009 12:57 pm

Trve wrote:That doesnt prove its BECAUSE of the gun ownership laws. That doesnt prove causation. Why dont you prove causation?

And even if you did (but you wont), thats just ONE example.

Show some causation that increasing firearms regulation will result in a drop in crime. Why don't you prove causation?

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Re: Gun lovers' paranoia helps stimulate the economy

Postby UNIverseVERSE » Tue May 05, 2009 1:03 pm

Midlauthia wrote:I don't know, maybe the rampant drug trafficking and illegal FIREARMS flowing across people's backyards, especially in Texas.


While I can't source this, I recall hearing (on the previous forum, I believe) that the general trend for firearms is to go from the US, to Mexico. Which is quite different to what you've been implying.

Furthermore, this buying binge is a nationwide trend, and is in no way limited to the southern border states. So that rather disproves your claim that guarding the border is the reason.

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Re: Gun lovers' paranoia helps stimulate the economy

Postby Jahka » Tue May 05, 2009 4:42 pm

There isnt anything wrong with a ban on assualt weapons.

Yah, there is. When was the last time you heard some guy attacked everyone with an assualt weapon.

Source.


http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-45&tab=summary

Not really.

Really.

Sense your only argument was asking him source things.
Well, this is a big fat lie. Or its stunning ignorance. The US actually has either higher crime rates then our fellow first world nations that have stricter gun laws, some of which ban guns all together, or similar crime rates.


The UK has a gun ban. Yet you are 6 times more likely to be mugged there then in New York City. The criminals (53%) don't fear breaking into other's homes, because they know the people do not own guns. Ask an American criminal if he will break in- he will tell you he is more scared of being shot by the owner, then of the police. (break-in with occupant home in USA - 13%)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/2656875.stm
Which explains all the mass shootings in Europe that occur on a regular basis.

Oh wait...


When was the last time you heard of a mass shooting that took place in a gun-free area? i.e. schools, libraries, government offices

Repeating the lie doesnt make it true.


Sure it does. :P

Ah, and which oppressive government that doesnt give you representation are you seceeding from?

Losing an election doesnt mean you arent represented.


Did he mention representation? Did he say he was going to seceed? You seem to have a fancy for twisting words.

EDIT: Fixed a typo.
Last edited by Jahka on Tue May 05, 2009 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Gun lovers' paranoia helps stimulate the economy

Postby Yootopia » Tue May 05, 2009 4:48 pm

Jahka wrote:The UK has a gun ban. Yet you are 6 times more likely to be mugged there then in New York City. The criminals (53%) don't fear breaking into other's homes, because they know the people do not own guns. Ask an American criminal if he will break in- he will tell you he is more scared of being shot by the owner, then of the police. (break-in with occupant home in USA - 13%)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/2656875.stm

Uhu... losing fifty quid or getting killed, which is more important?
End the Modigarchy now.

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Re: Gun lovers' paranoia helps stimulate the economy

Postby Chumblywumbly » Tue May 05, 2009 5:16 pm

Jahka wrote:The UK has a gun ban.

No we don't.

Yet you are 6 times more likely to be mugged there then in New York City.

According to a report in a 2003 opinion piece, you are 6 times more likely to be mugged in London than in New York.

Could you supply a definitive indicator that (a) that statistic is still accurate, and that (b) this increase in muggings is a direct result of their being stricter handgun legislation in the UK?

Ta.

The criminals (53%) don't fear breaking into other's homes, because they know the people do not own guns. Ask an American criminal if he will break in- he will tell you he is more scared of being shot by the owner, then of the police.

Could you put me in contact with these criminals, seeing as you talk to them and know of their inner thoughts?
I suffer, I labour, I dream, I enjoy, I think; and, in a word, when my last hour strikes, I shall have lived.

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Trve
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Posts: 225
Founded: Dec 14, 2008
Ex-Nation

Re: Gun lovers' paranoia helps stimulate the economy

Postby Trve » Tue May 05, 2009 5:30 pm

Midlauthia wrote:
Trve wrote:That doesnt prove its BECAUSE of the gun ownership laws. That doesnt prove causation. Why dont you prove causation?

And even if you did (but you wont), thats just ONE example.

Show some causation that increasing firearms regulation will result in a drop in crime. Why don't you prove causation?

That was never a claim I made, and therefore why should I prove it?
KoL
Economic Left/Right: -9.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.15

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