WHY has the free market failed to provide health care?

[Vittos Ordination]

Alright, correct me if I'm wrong (with a link to the post) but the depth of the argument against free market provision of health care has gone like this:

1. The US has failed at reasonable health care provision.

2. The US is a free market economy.

3. Therefore the free market cannot provide health care.


That may be simplified, but so far I have not seen an argument that didn't rest on the premise that some version of the market has failed to provide health care, so the market cannot effectively provide health care.

So now I want to shift the discussion a little bit.

Tell me why the market has failed.

[Fartsniffage]

Emphasis on profit rather than care.

[Hydesland]

The US healthcare system is hardly free market by any means.

[Zoharland]

Alright, correct me if I'm wrong (with a link to the post) but the depth of the argument against free market provision of health care has gone like this:

1. The US has failed at reasonable health care provision.

2. The US is a free market economy.

3. Therefore the free market cannot provide health care.


That may be simplified, but so far I have not seen an argument that didn't rest on the premise that some version of the market has failed to provide health care, so the market cannot effectively provide health care.

So now I want to shift the discussion a little bit.

Tell me why the market has failed.

Because it doesn't cover the shiftless welfare bums, of course.

[Fiduses and Diuses]

Lack of competition/rise of effective monopolies on the resource(s) would be a biggy.
Expecting to much profit for any given market causing companies to cut cost which in health care generally means the poor/sick lose coverage.

Those are the two biggies I can think of...

[Sdaeriji]

Are you really asking "why" the free market has failed to provide health care? Are we supposed to ascribe motivations to something as amorphous as the Free Market?

[LOL ANARCHY NUBZ]

Emphasis on profit rather than care.

This.

[Rentalia]

Obviously the Conservative/Right-Libertarian will say that it is the government fault or that there is not true free market(No true Scotsman fallacy)

in reality healthcare it is a clear case of market failure due to cartel and Information asymmetry and greed

[Ashmoria]

the free market does provide health care.

it doesnt provide reasonably priced health care to everyone.

just as the airlines provide airplane transportation but it is not affordable for everyone.

[Czardas]

"The free market" doesn't provide health care -- in fact, it doesn't provide anything. Persons provide health care.

As for why persons have failed to provide adequate health care, it's partly because of poor business models, partly because of government regulations, and partly because of monopolies (in this case created or propped up by government interference, but just as easily coming into existence without the state) and a lack of competition in the field. As far as I can tell, anyway.

[Rentalia]

it doesnt provide reasonably priced health care to everyone.

The healthcare in US cost 3 times than japan and cover 25% less people(15% of them black children) relative to population

edit: ops i read does instead of doesnt sorry

[Vittos Ordination]

Emphasis on profit rather than care.

Not an argument.

The market operates on the basis that the emphasis on profit leads to greatest customer satisfaction. If this does not happen there is a market failure.

What is the market failure?

[Lackadaisical2]

You're starting with an incorrect premise. Health care is provided.

[Ashmoria]

it doesnt provide reasonably priced health care to everyone.

The healthcare in US cost 3 times than japan and cover 25% less people(15% of them black children) relative to population

edit: ops i read does instead of doesnt sorry

good statistics nonetheless. i guess i should have said that it provides REASONABLY priced healthcare to no one but does provide affordable (but overpriced) health care to millions.

[Vittos Ordination]

Are you really asking "why" the free market has failed to provide health care? Are we supposed to ascribe motivations to something as amorphous as the Free Market?

The "Why" is asking for a cause.

[Vittos Ordination]

Lack of competition/rise of effective monopolies on the resource(s) would be a biggy.

Why does this exist?

Expecting to much profit for any given market causing companies to cut cost which in health care generally means the poor/sick lose coverage.

Which opens the door to market entrants who are willing to accept lower profit margins.

[Ashmoria]

Emphasis on profit rather than care.

Not an argument.

The market operates on the basis that the emphasis on profit leads to greatest customer satisfaction. If this does not happen there is a market failure.

What is the market failure?

there is no market failure. the market provides profits to health care providers and brokers.

[Vittos Ordination]

in reality healthcare it is a clear case of market failure due to cartel and Information asymmetry and greed

Please explain.

I need some arguments here, not just platitudes.

[Northwest Slobovia]

1. The US has failed at reasonable health care provision.

Perhaps. Most people have health insurance here, albeit expensively.

2. The US is a free market economy.

3. Therefore the free market cannot provide health care.

There's a big leap between 2 and 3: while the US has a relatively free market, it doesn't apply to health care. The average person gets the health insurance their employer provides. They have no (or very little) choice, no ability to shop around, and due to pernicious tax breaks on employer-provided health care, no real ability to refuse what their employer offers and buy their own.

Fixing this will solve some of the problem, but by no means all of it. Thompson-Reuters released a big report talking about other problems in the US. The whole report isn't worth reading IMHO -- I read it -- as there's an embarrassing lack of detail between the headline summary I linked to and the underlying data the T-R report cites. Nonetheless, it's food for thought.

[Vittos Ordination]

it doesnt provide reasonably priced health care to everyone.

The healthcare in US cost 3 times than japan and cover 25% less people(15% of them black children) relative to population

edit: ops i read does instead of doesnt sorry

Actually it is half the US and expected to rise to meet US expenditures within a decade, despite much longer wait times and general sacrifices that no US politician would ever propose.

[Tech-gnosis]

There's the fee for service compensation system that gives incentives for overtreatment. There's the asymmetry of information between doctors and patients. There's the fact that a sick person is a much worse bargaining position than most consumers are. The difference between someone who might like a face lift or breast implants to look prettier and someone who will die without a surgery is huge, for example. There's the fact that consumers often switch insurance companies every few years meaning a company that pays for many kinds of preventative care is subsidizing their competitors. There's the fact that specialists usually make quite a bit more more than general practitioners even though GPs are more cost effective and those who receive many specialists and tests are on average no better off than one's who see few or none. There's the rapid technological innovation which sometimes is very effective sometimes very not but always increasing costs. That's all I can think of for the moment.

[Vittos Ordination]

You're starting with an incorrect premise. Health care is provided.

I'm assuming it is not reasonably acceptable.

[Araraukar]

Big businesses want big profits. There's no profit to be made from poor people. And poor people are the ones that benefit the most from universal healthcare, since the rich can afford private (high-cost) healthcare providers.

Hence capitalism fails and will continue to fail to produce universal healthcare, unless the state requires it or provides it at its own cost.

[Fartsniffage]

Not an argument.

The market operates on the basis that the emphasis on profit leads to greatest customer satisfaction. If this does not happen there is a market failure.

What is the market failure?

I'm not sure I understand the premise here.

I always understood that the market was based on the idea that greater customer satisfation will lead to greater profit, not the other way around.

[The Scandinvans]

Obviously the Conservative/Right-Libertarian will say that it is the government fault or that there is not true free market(No true Scotsman fallacy)

in reality healthcare it is a clear case of market failure due to cartel and Information asymmetry and greed

Watch this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Hn6ad4_ ... =topvideos