Lisbon Treaty Czechs itself lest it wreck itself.

[Yootopia]

Czech leader signs Lisbon Treaty

Czech President Vaclav Klaus has signed the European Union's Lisbon Treaty, the final step in its ratification.

The Czech Republic was the only EU country not to have approved the treaty, which was drawn up to streamline decision-making in the EU.

Full story here : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8340664.stm

Argument over the relative merits of the EU....... GO!

[Brogavia]

It will be as useless as the Leauge og Nations.

And besides, I predict a major land war in Europe within 20 years.

[Yootopia]

It will be as useless as the Leauge og Nations.

The League of Nations was primarily a forum for debate, with some excellent WHO type stuff. The EU is a customs union with legislative power. Rather a different kettle of fish.

[The Blaatschapen]

It will be as useless as the Leauge og Nations.

And besides, I predict a major land war in Europe within 20 years.

Why do you predict a major land war in Europe? Resources? We hardly have any. Lack of "lebensraum" (place to live), that will solve itself after 2050.

Don't get me wrong, we might plunge into civil disorder, or fights at the borders of the EU (gas conflicts escalating, relationship with neighbouring muslim countries detoriating, etc.) but I don't see a major land war happening inside Europe.

[North Avayu]

About time, if you ask me. He was delaying the possibility of development (and therefore reform) of the EU. And he did so against the will of his country's citizens, if I recall correctly (not 100% sure on this, but I think it was in Czech

[Risottia]

It will be as useless as the Leauge og Nations.

And besides, I predict a major land war in Europe within 20 years.

Yes. I see Germany, France and Italy invading Liechtenstein, San Marino, Luxembourg and Monaco if they don't stop hosting money coming from tax evasion.
The invading army will consist of 40 cars from the D-F-I financial police forces, 80 agents, and 20 prosecutors.

[Seraph Down]

Czech leader signs Lisbon Treaty

Czech President Vaclav Klaus has signed the European Union's Lisbon Treaty, the final step in its ratification.

The Czech Republic was the only EU country not to have approved the treaty, which was drawn up to streamline decision-making in the EU.

Full story here : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8340664.stm

Argument over the relative merits of the EU....... GO!

EU = "Sharing is overrated."

By the way, your thread title is very punny.

[Yootopia]

It will be as useless as the Leauge og Nations.

And besides, I predict a major land war in Europe within 20 years.

Yes. I see Germany, France and Italy invading Liechtenstein, San Marino, Luxembourg and Monaco if they don't stop hosting money coming from tax evasion.
The invading army will consist of 40 cars from the D-F-I financial police forces, 80 agents, and 20 prosecutors.

That's just unnecessary expenditure right there. Only need a single Vespa moped, with an agent and a prosecutor on it, to do a week long Conquest Of Justice.

[Risottia]

About time, if you ask me. He was delaying the possibility of development (and therefore reform) of the EU. And he did so against the will of his country's citizens, if I recall correctly (not 100% sure on this, but I think it was in Czech

Quite not. Actually, most Czechs are quite pro-EU, while mr.K from Prague Castle is overtly anti-EU and totally a Bush's bitch. He even argued (last week iirc) that CR should withdraw from the UN Convention of Human Rights.

[Risottia]

It will be as useless as the Leauge og Nations.

And besides, I predict a major land war in Europe within 20 years.

Yes. I see Germany, France and Italy invading Liechtenstein, San Marino, Luxembourg and Monaco if they don't stop hosting money coming from tax evasion.
The invading army will consist of 40 cars from the D-F-I financial police forces, 80 agents, and 20 prosecutors.

That's just unnecessary expenditure right there. Only need a single Vespa moped, with an agent and a prosecutor on it, to do a week long Conquest Of Justice.

Germans like to do things properly. France has to preserve grandeur. And Italy needs money.

[The Blaatschapen]

It will be as useless as the Leauge og Nations.

And besides, I predict a major land war in Europe within 20 years.

Yes. I see Germany, France and Italy invading Liechtenstein, San Marino, Luxembourg and Monaco if they don't stop hosting money coming from tax evasion.
The invading army will consist of 40 cars from the D-F-I financial police forces, 80 agents, and 20 prosecutors.

That's just unnecessary expenditure right there. Only need a single Vespa moped, with an agent and a prosecutor on it, to do a week long Conquest Of Justice.

Germans like to do things properly. France has to preserve grandeur. And Italy needs money.

The only problem is how do the Germans get to Liechtenstein without provoking the Swiss or the Austrians?

[Brogavia]

It will be as useless as the Leauge og Nations.

The League of Nations was primarily a forum for debate, with some excellent WHO type stuff. The EU is a customs union with legislative power. Rather a different kettle of fish.

I'm saying that it will be rendered as useless as the LoN.

This is the longest the Europeans have gone without going apeshit and killing each other. It can't last much longer.

[Yootopia]

It will be as useless as the Leauge og Nations.

The League of Nations was primarily a forum for debate, with some excellent WHO type stuff. The EU is a customs union with legislative power. Rather a different kettle of fish.

I'm saying that it will be rendered as useless as the LoN.

Err why?

This is the longest the Europeans have gone without going apeshit and killing each other. It can't last much longer.

Don't see why not. As much as I'd love for us to invade Italy just to see if we can make it slightly better (protip : we can), I don't think this is really on anyone's minds just now.

[The Blaatschapen]

It will be as useless as the Leauge og Nations.

The League of Nations was primarily a forum for debate, with some excellent WHO type stuff. The EU is a customs union with legislative power. Rather a different kettle of fish.

I'm saying that it will be rendered as useless as the LoN.

This is the longest the Europeans have gone without going apeshit and killing each other. It can't last much longer.

Yes, because while history does have the tendency to repeat itself, it does not mean automagically that it is the only way to go. Can you give me reasons why Europe would end up in a land war amongst themselves? I can't find any. I see lots of problems, but none that would trigger fights between the various countries in the EU.

At most a fight of Russia vs. EU might happen, but seeing that both entities currently suffer from low birth rates, I don't think they'll have enough human resources for a full scale war and thus a peace would be concluded very soon(especially since they both have other threats to deal with too).

[Brogavia]

Yes, because while history does have the tendency to repeat itself, it does not mean automagically that it is the only way to go. Can you give me reasons why Europe would end up in a land war amongst themselves? I can't find any. I see lots of problems, but none that would trigger fights between the various countries in the EU.

At most a fight of Russia vs. EU might happen, but seeing that both entities currently suffer from low birth rates, I don't think they'll have enough human resources for a full scale war and thus a peace would be concluded very soon(especially since they both have other threats to deal with too).

Resurgence of nationalism. You can already see it happening in Germany. They are slowly accepting what happened and starting to feel proud to be German again. I can see people exploiting this and bringing out the old borer disputes between Germany and Poland, France and Russia. And we all know how that ends up.

[Conserative Morality]

As much as I hate to say it, Brogavia has a point. Europe hasn't been known for it's stability, when old feelings of patriotism start surging again, combine that with the continuing popularity of far-right parties currently...

[Brogavia]

As much as I hate to say it, Brogavia has a point. Europe hasn't been known for it's stability, when old feelings of patriotism start surging again, combine that with the continuing popularity of far-right parties currently...

Wow. This makes twice in two days that NSG has suggested that I might be right. What the hell is this, the Twilight Zone?

[United Technocrats]

It will be as useless as the Leauge og Nations.

And besides, I predict a major land war in Europe within 20 years.

Why do you predict a major land war in Europe? Resources? We hardly have any. Lack of "lebensraum" (place to live), that will solve itself after 2050.

Don't get me wrong, we might plunge into civil disorder, or fights at the borders of the EU (gas conflicts escalating, relationship with neighbouring muslim countries detoriating, etc.) but I don't see a major land war happening inside Europe.

I tend to agree with the possibility of a major war in Europe, though I would not go as far as to say I expect one. The EU is becoming a centralized, non-democratic "super-state," ruled by "Directives" issued by growing Brussels bureaucracy. Centralization is making stuff less efficient and more expensive, and all of that is happening in the middle of an international economic crisis, energy crisis and with depleted natural resources. The EU, having almost no comparative advantages, looks very similar to Yugoslavia just before it fell apart through a bloody civil war, with its differences in religion and culture, highly asymmetric levels of economic development and all... EU is not a "melting pot," like some other countries -- the member states are still relatively homogenous in terms of national identity...

[Old Tyrannia]

We're doomed!
DOWN WITH EUROPE!

[The Blaatschapen]

Yes, because while history does have the tendency to repeat itself, it does not mean automagically that it is the only way to go. Can you give me reasons why Europe would end up in a land war amongst themselves? I can't find any. I see lots of problems, but none that would trigger fights between the various countries in the EU.

At most a fight of Russia vs. EU might happen, but seeing that both entities currently suffer from low birth rates, I don't think they'll have enough human resources for a full scale war and thus a peace would be concluded very soon(especially since they both have other threats to deal with too).

Resurgence of nationalism. You can already see it happening in Germany. They are slowly accepting what happened and starting to feel proud to be German again. I can see people exploiting this and bringing out the old borer disputes between Germany and Poland, France and Russia. And we all know how that ends up.

Just that? Nationalism is on the rise, but I think it will focus more on the new minorities in the country (muslims) then toward their neighbours. I don't see any fight between Germany and France happening at all, and I'm quite sure about Germany vs. Poland that it will be settled in a friendly matter, since they have more pressing matters to work on then fighting each other (especially since they'll both be lacking resources to do that).

Now, Russia is a different matter, but Russia has also problems at home (it's getting empty) and a resource hungry neighbour in the south east that it needs to contain (China). So while Russia would love to rush through the Baltics again, I think they simply can't afford a full scale war with NATO (which is what would happen in practice).

[Brogavia]

Just that? Nationalism is on the rise, but I think it will focus more on the new minorities in the country (muslims) then toward their neighbours. I don't see any fight between Germany and France happening at all, and I'm quite sure about Germany vs. Poland that it will be settled in a friendly matter, since they have more pressing matters to work on then fighting each other (especially since they'll both be lacking resources to do that).

Now, Russia is a different matter, but Russia has also problems at home (it's getting empty) and a resource hungry neighbour in the south east that it needs to contain (China). So while Russia would love to rush through the Baltics again, I think they simply can't afford a full scale war with NATO (which is what would happen in practice).

If NATO's there anymore. If Europe starts to fall apart like I'm saying, NATO won't be around anymore.

[Chernobyl-Pripyat]

It will be as useless as the Leauge og Nations.

And besides, I predict a major land war in Europe within 20 years.

Poland, Russia and Belarus will annex Ukraine because of the problems with gas supply

[Conserative Morality]

If NATO's there anymore. If Europe starts to fall apart like I'm saying, NATO won't be around anymore.

I think it'll keep together, just not at full strength.

[Brogavia]

If NATO's there anymore. If Europe starts to fall apart like I'm saying, NATO won't be around anymore.

I think it'll keep together, just not at full strength.

If the major continental members start leaving(Germany, France, Poland, Italy, Turkey, Norway) that will leave only the US and Britian as the only major players, and with a fraction of the strength.

[Conserative Morality]

If the major continental members start leaving(Germany, France, Poland, Italy, Turkey, Norway) that will leave only the US and Britian as the only major players, and with a fraction of the strength.

A rather large fraction, I'm sure you'll agree.