Stop The Blue Code of Silence

[Flibbleites]

Stop The Blue Code of Silence

I encourage you to review this excellent proposal. In the REAL WORLD Counterpolice has been proven effective under Louis XIV of France (the King’s Musketeers), under Napoleone Bonaparte, and presently and currently in Austria which unsurprisingly has the highest standard of living in Europe.

Setting aside personal enmity, please review and APPROVE the "Stop The Blue Code of Silence" proposal submitted by FASTERCAT.

http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_pro ... =0/start=0

If a person who is your political opponent on many issues has a very good point, it should be judged on individual basis.

FASTERCAT DOES have a very good point.

The system of checks and balances which exists in Government for some reason does not exist in law enforcement!

A counter-police FORCE is necessary in order to limit the power of the police. Many policemen are poorly educated and their agenda is simply power. The many laws are used only as a pretext to DOMINATE people.

(1) Internal affairs is insufficient because they are members of the same team and understandably have to be LOYAL or risked being viewed with contempt.

(2) Civil oversight committees do not have the power of apprehension and sufficient training to investigate police misconduct and lack of graciousness towards the citizens.

This will contribute TREMENDOUSLY to the improvement of civil rights!

Please hurry as there is only one day left (probably less by the time you read this) to approve the proposal.

KAMENSKY

[Enn]

1. Please please please use basic black for the text in your posts. I have extreme difficulty in making out your words.

2. It is considered polite to provide the text of the proposal you are seeking support for. Especially when the link you provided doesn't work. I did it this time because I'm nice like that. In the future, it would be appreciated if you did so for yourself.

Stop The Blue Code of Silence

A resolution to improve worldwide human and civil rights.


Category: Human Rights


Strength: Significant


Proposed by: FlagFASTERCAT

Description: GIVEN reports worldwide of police abuse of power, corruption, malevolence and unwarranted brutality;

RECOGNIZING the failures of police internal affairs officers to rein in these atrocities, and the failures of civilian oversight committees;

World Assembly member nations are hereby instructed to create, maintain and adequately fund an independent office dedicated solely to the investigation of police wrongdoing in all law enforcement communities.

This office will be independent of the established judicial system.

This office will be administered by a
COMMISSIONER
-Elected by majority vote of each nations voting population for a term of 4 years, limit 2 terms.
-Responsible for recruiting and training of AGENTS.

Its AGENTS will be trained in the latest investigative techniques, and equipped with state of the art investigative paraphenalia.
--Responsible for investigation, evidence gathering, presentation of case to prosecution and serving as professional witness at trial, and in all police misconduct proceedings.

3. Why oh why would we want to elect police officers? That strikes me as a very silly thing to do.

[Flibbleites]

... provide the text of the proposal you are seeking support for. Especially when the link you provided doesn't work.

I have fixed the link before you posted. I was also thinking of providing the text but it basically says the same thing as my post. And it is kind of long too. So just click and follow the link. I hope it is not too difficult.

Why oh why would we want to elect police officers? That strikes me as a very silly thing to do.

(1) I do not mean to be confrontational but simply calling something silly is not proof of it being so.
(2) I have not said anything about electing police officers. I do not know where you took that from. Keeping a power in line is not inherently connected to it being elected.

[Enn]

1. Thank you for completely ignoring my advice about politeness, and colour. Perhaps I didn't make myself clear: I have a slight vision impairment, and cannot read your posts without highlighting them. I can work out individual words fine, but when it's presented as a block of text it just merges together.

For the sake of politeness, could you please desist in using such colour.

2.

COMMISSIONER
-Elected by majority vote of each nations voting population for a term of 4 years, limit 2 terms.

Isn't this an election? Counter-police are still police. There are some positions that are better as appointed, rather than elected. How is the voting body supposed to know who the better candidate is?
Also, potentially, there's an ideology/optionality violation, as there is no provision for nations that do not have voting populations.

[Enn]

It strikes me as personally ironic, given my record at the UN, but I really think I'm going to have to claim National Sovereignty here. This is a completely unnecessary intrusion into domestic affairs.

[Flibbleites]

... I really think I'm going to have to claim National Sovereignty here. This is a completely unnecessary intrusion into domestic affairs.

As a World Assembly member you elected to abide by its resolutions. Nobody put a gun to your head and forced you to join. As you "intrude" into the affairs of WA member Nation States, you should not complain about the same being done to you.

[Sedgistan]

A counter-police FORCE is necessary in order to limit the power of the police. Many policemen are poorly educated and their agenda is simply power. The many laws are used only as a pretext to DOMINATE people.

Can we have a counter-counter-police force too, in case the counter-police try and abuse their powers?

[Enn]

... I really think I'm going to have to claim National Sovereignty here. This is a completely unnecessary intrusion into domestic affairs.

As a World Assembly member you elected to abide by its resolutions. Nobody put a gun to your head and forced you to join. As you "intrude" into the affairs of WA member Nation States, you should not complain about the same being done to you.

IC: You know, by joining, Enn didn't forfeit any rights to suggest where might be more appropriate for the WA (and the UN before that) to put its efforts. It is my firm belief that the WA should be concerned with issues of international importance. I regard Human Rights as being of international importance, as my record in the UN shows.

What you have failed to demonstrate, however, is that this particular issue is in some way universal.

This is a venue for debate, please debate me. Convince me of this proposal's merits. Show me why this particular matter is worthy of the WA's time.

Stephanie Fulton,
WA Ambassador for Enn

OOC: Ye gods, have you no respect for common courtesy? Your insistence on using colour in that way is incredibly annoying. Maybe you have some pride in this way of writing. But when I have difficulty making out your words, it means I am far, far less likely to pay them any attention. And if people aren't paying you any attention, then how are you going to get people to believe what you say?

[Guanzhong]

I believe that forcing nations to create a police force toes the line of "no WA police/military force"

Federal systems may have difficulties applying this to provincial and local police forces. Either it only applies to the national level police force, or to all police forces. The former does not significantly address the problem in federal governments, whereas the latter is cumbersome bureaucratically (a single entity forced to deal with a patchwork of provincial and local authorities)

A worst case scenario would be that the creation of a national level counter-police could enable national level manipulation of provincial and local police forces.

Though the Peoples' Republic of Guanzhong is not a federalist government, we employ large numbers of volunteer security forces which are organized locally. They are not part of the regular Guanzhongese police force, but would we be required to oversee them under your proposal?

[Grays Harbor]

Description: GIVEN reports worldwide of police abuse of power, corruption, malevolence and unwarranted brutality;

GIVEN that there is no basis for this factoid other than the spurious assertations of the author of the proposal

and

ASSERTING that the spread of lies based not in fact but in baseless supposition

means that

CERTAINLY the Kingdom cannot and will not give approval to this bit of nonsense in any shape or form.

[Zoldorstan]

1. Please don't post in that orange color It's hard to read

2.I believe this might violate the rule about WA police/military forces and although it does not actually make one it interferes with my own military/police force a little more than I think the WA should.

[Unibotian WASC Mission]

..Really? I'd do anything to enforce an Orange Code of Silence...

[Korintar]

OOC: Ye gods, have you no respect for common courtesy? Your insistence on using colour in that way is incredibly annoying. Maybe you have some pride in this way of writing. But when I have difficulty making out your words, it means I am far, far less likely to pay them any attention. And if people aren't paying you any attention, then how are you going to get people to believe what you say?

OoC: I am no longer in the WA, so you can take this for what it's worth, but I've noticed this guy's annoying tendencies, Enn, as have the Mods, and even if I was still in the WA, I would ignore Kamenskyland, which I will now do. I have a severe visual impairment, so I have to use a frickin' screen reader to read his stuff! He fails to understand the concept of color contrast. The only way his behavior makes sense to me is if he himself has vision problems, in which case he can type things up in a word processing document and go to the control panel on his computer and click accessibility to change the color contrast as he needs it while respecting others needs to have it differently.

[The Arm Faction]

A counter-police FORCE is necessary in order to limit the power of the police. Many policemen are poorly educated and their agenda is simply power. The many laws are used only as a pretext to DOMINATE people.

Can we have a counter-counter-police force too, in case the counter-police try and abuse their powers?

They would have the most power of all! What we really need is a counter-police ARMY to ensure that law and order prevail.

Honestly, if we can't trust our police officers, what's the point in having them?

[The Most Glorious Hack]

I believe that forcing nations to create a police force toes the line of "no WA police/military force"

Not really. Forcing a nation to create a police force is different than the WA itself having a police force.

[Gobbannium]

Stop The Blue Code of Silence

While we respect the noble nation of FASTERCAT, we regret that this otherwise admirable proposal falters when it attempts to dictate elements of the structure of the police complaints investigations executive. Requiring all nations to have a notionally independent commissioner who must constantly think of his public profile rather than the law he is supposed to be upholding seems to us highly irresponsible.

Also, the title puzzles us. Who is this Mr Blue, and why have we not heard of his code before?

[Zoldorstan]

I believe that forcing nations to create a police force toes the line of "no WA police/military force"

Not really. Forcing a nation to create a police force is different than the WA itself having a police force.

Even if it creates an organization to regulate the police/military force?

[Bears Armed]

I believe that forcing nations to create a police force toes the line of "no WA police/military force"

Not really. Forcing a nation to create a police force is different than the WA itself having a police force.

Even if it creates an organization to regulate the police/military force?

It doesn't create a WAorganization for this role, it tells each member nation to create one of their own...

[Flibbleites]

OoC: I am no longer in the WA, so you can take this for what it's worth, but I've noticed this guy's annoying tendencies, Enn, as have the Mods, and even if I was still in the WA, I would ignore Kamenskyland, which I will now do. I have a severe visual impairment, so I have to use a frickin' screen reader to read his stuff! He fails to understand the concept of color contrast. The only way his behavior makes sense to me is if he himself has vision problems, in which case he can type things up in a word processing document and go to the control panel on his computer and click accessibility to change the color contrast as he needs it while respecting others needs to have it differently.

OOC: I'm starting to wonder if it would be an abuse of my mod powers to go in and strip out the color tags on kamenskyland's posts.

[Philimbesi]

OOC: I won't tell.

[Flibbleites]

OOC: I won't tell.

OOC: Yeah, but the "edited by" tags on the forum would.

[The Rats Rampant]

A seprate agency to investigate police corrupiton/atrocties seems reasonable. Especially if organised at the world assembly level. kind of like "an international war crimes tribunal" if such a thing exists. Where a police force is corrupt its a nonsense to assume it can clean up itself without outside help

[Grays Harbor]

OoC: I am no longer in the WA, so you can take this for what it's worth, but I've noticed this guy's annoying tendencies, Enn, as have the Mods, and even if I was still in the WA, I would ignore Kamenskyland, which I will now do. I have a severe visual impairment, so I have to use a frickin' screen reader to read his stuff! He fails to understand the concept of color contrast. The only way his behavior makes sense to me is if he himself has vision problems, in which case he can type things up in a word processing document and go to the control panel on his computer and click accessibility to change the color contrast as he needs it while respecting others needs to have it differently.

OOC: I'm starting to wonder if it would be an abuse of my mod powers to go in and strip out the color tags on kamenskyland's posts.

abuse? no. a kindness to the rest of us? most likely.

[Philimbesi]

(1) Internal affairs is insufficient because they are members of the same team and understandably have to be LOYAL or risked being viewed with contempt.

Sounds like you need to recruit better IA members. At least a few who aren't so self-conscious that they can't take a little viewing with contempt.

(2) Civil oversight committees do not have the power of apprehension and sufficient training to investigate police misconduct and lack of graciousness towards the citizens

.

Sounds like you have a real problem there... you should address it.

[Grays Harbor]

A seprate agency to investigate police corrupiton/atrocties seems reasonable. Especially if organised at the world assembly level. kind of like "an international war crimes tribunal" if such a thing exists. Where a police force is corrupt its a nonsense to assume it can clean up itself without outside help

Riiiiight. And that would be nothing at all like an inmvasion of a sovereign nation by "Team WA, World Police". Who would be the ones deciding where to "intervene"? The WA bureaucracy? Dissidents and criminals within a nation claiming "corruption and oppression"? Myself, I am more concerned with the police putting criminals out of business.

This is a bad proposal, one I am very glad will never come to a vote.