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The Future of Libertarianism

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Regnum Dominae
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The Future of Libertarianism

Postby Regnum Dominae » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:42 am

Libertarianism is growing, as seen in the last election where the Libertarian party reached 1% for the first time*. Many young people are adopting libertarian ideals, and almost all are rejecting social conservatism. I think that in 20 or 30 years, the Libertarians will either have replaced the Republicans, or the Republicans will have essentially become libertarians.
I would not be surprised if, within the next 50 years, we have a Libertarian president.

Your thoughts?


*I know, 1% is small, but in our corporate/union/lobbyist/special-interest controlled government that is a significant achievement.
I support peace in Israel and Palestine. The governments and people in power on all sides are an absolute disgrace, and their unwillingness to pursue peace is a disservice to the people they are meant to be serving. The status quo is not simply untenable; it is unquestionably unacceptable.

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Hurdegaryp
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Postby Hurdegaryp » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:49 am

Well, most young people will actually grow up. The follies of youth often disappear with age.
CVT Temp wrote:I mean, we can actually create a mathematical definition for evolution in terms of the evolutionary algorithm and then write code to deal with abstract instances of evolution, which basically equates to mathematical proof that evolution works. All that remains is to show that biological systems replicate in such a way as to satisfy the minimal criteria required for evolution to apply to them, something which has already been adequately shown time and again. At this point, we've pretty much proven that not only can evolution happen, it pretty much must happen since it's basically impossible to prevent it from happening.



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Tubbsalot
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Postby Tubbsalot » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:52 am

Regnum Dominae wrote:in our corporate/union/lobbyist/special-interest controlled government

don't forget the jews
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The Tiger Kingdom
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Postby The Tiger Kingdom » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:52 am

Tubbsalot wrote:
Regnum Dominae wrote:in our corporate/union/lobbyist/special-interest controlled government

don't forget the jews

And the reptilians.
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Hurdegaryp
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Postby Hurdegaryp » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:54 am

Also: ponies. Mind you, there is a certain overlap between conspiracy thinkers and the rather fragmented libertarian communities.
CVT Temp wrote:I mean, we can actually create a mathematical definition for evolution in terms of the evolutionary algorithm and then write code to deal with abstract instances of evolution, which basically equates to mathematical proof that evolution works. All that remains is to show that biological systems replicate in such a way as to satisfy the minimal criteria required for evolution to apply to them, something which has already been adequately shown time and again. At this point, we've pretty much proven that not only can evolution happen, it pretty much must happen since it's basically impossible to prevent it from happening.



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Zweite Alaje
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Postby Zweite Alaje » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:09 am

A Libertarian president? :rofl:

Nah, an increase in the libertarian voter base will only make it easier for more democrats to get in office. The Republicans and Libertarians are pulling from the same base.
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Regnum Dominae
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Postby Regnum Dominae » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:14 am

Zweite Alaje wrote:A Libertarian president? :rofl:

Nah, an increase in the libertarian voter base will only make it easier for more democrats to get in office. The Republicans and Libertarians are pulling from the same base.

No, not true at all.

I am often more sympathetic to Democrats than Republicans. The Akin/Mourdock fiasco has left me with nothing but disgust at the GOP. Rand Paul seriously needs to defect.
I support peace in Israel and Palestine. The governments and people in power on all sides are an absolute disgrace, and their unwillingness to pursue peace is a disservice to the people they are meant to be serving. The status quo is not simply untenable; it is unquestionably unacceptable.

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Winland
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Postby Winland » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:16 am

Zweite Alaje wrote:A Libertarian president? :rofl:

Nah, an increase in the libertarian voter base will only make it easier for more democrats to get in office. The Republicans and Libertarians are pulling from the same base.

and the Greens could do the same for the Democrats
It is very easy to be blinded to the essential uselessness of them by the sense of achievement you get from getting them to work at all.

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Postby Tubbsalot » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:16 am

Regnum Dominae wrote:I am often more sympathetic to Democrats than Republicans.

Yet it's still true that the Republicans and Libertarians pull from the same base. One exception doesn't make it false.

Regnum Dominae wrote:Rand Paul seriously needs to defect.

Now I don't pay so much attention to US politics, but isn't Rand Paul that particular brand of moronic Republican "libertarian" who consistently makes the worst choice possible in every situation?

I'm sure there're some libertarians in the US who aren't totally ridiculous.
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Winland
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Postby Winland » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:20 am

Tubbsalot wrote:I'm sure there're some libertarians in the US who aren't totally ridiculous.

The Republicans make sure to weed all of them out of their party.
It is very easy to be blinded to the essential uselessness of them by the sense of achievement you get from getting them to work at all.

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Zweite Alaje
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Postby Zweite Alaje » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:20 am

Regnum Dominae wrote:
Zweite Alaje wrote:A Libertarian president? :rofl:

Nah, an increase in the libertarian voter base will only make it easier for more democrats to get in office. The Republicans and Libertarians are pulling from the same base.

No, not true at all.

I am often more sympathetic to Democrats than Republicans. The Akin/Mourdock fiasco has left me with nothing but disgust at the GOP. Rand Paul seriously needs to defect.

Meh, what do I know? From my point of view the libertarians combine to worst elements of the two major parties into a horrid clusterfuck. They're social liberals like the Dems and fiscal conservatives like the GOP..... *barf*
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Postby Luveria » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:20 am

Tubbsalot wrote:
Regnum Dominae wrote:I am often more sympathetic to Democrats than Republicans.

Yet it's still true that the Republicans and Libertarians pull from the same base. One exception doesn't make it false.

Republicans being vote split with Libertarians is a great thing.

Zweite Alaje wrote:Meh, what do I know? From my point of view the libertarians combine to worst elements of the two major parties into a horrid clusterfuck. They're social liberals like the Dems and fiscal conservatives like the GOP..... *barf*

If they dropped the fiscal conservatism it wouldn't be bad at all, but we know that isn't going to happen.
Last edited by Luveria on Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Regnum Dominae
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Postby Regnum Dominae » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:22 am

Luveria wrote:
Tubbsalot wrote:Yet it's still true that the Republicans and Libertarians pull from the same base. One exception doesn't make it false.

Republicans being vote split with Libertarians is a great thing.

A lot of libertarians are college students who are mainly focused on social issues and would almost never vote Republican.
I support peace in Israel and Palestine. The governments and people in power on all sides are an absolute disgrace, and their unwillingness to pursue peace is a disservice to the people they are meant to be serving. The status quo is not simply untenable; it is unquestionably unacceptable.

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Zweite Alaje
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Postby Zweite Alaje » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:23 am

Luveria wrote:
Tubbsalot wrote:Yet it's still true that the Republicans and Libertarians pull from the same base. One exception doesn't make it false.

Republicans being vote split with Libertarians is a great thing.

No, it isn't. It will be bad for the Dems to go unchallenged, we need a strong GOP.
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Likes: Corporatism, Market Socialism, Syndicalism, Progressivism, Pantheism, Gaia Hypothesis, Centrism, Dirigisme

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Luveria
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Postby Luveria » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:23 am

Regnum Dominae wrote:
Luveria wrote:Republicans being vote split with Libertarians is a great thing.

A lot of libertarians are college students who are mainly focused on social issues and would almost never vote Republican.


There would be a better chance advancing social issues by supporting the democratic party which actually is capable of electoral victories.

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Regnum Dominae
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Postby Regnum Dominae » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:25 am

Luveria wrote:
Regnum Dominae wrote:A lot of libertarians are college students who are mainly focused on social issues and would almost never vote Republican.


There would be a better chance advancing social issues by supporting the democratic party which actually is capable of electoral victories.

And completely sell out on foreign policy.


For many people, the democrats aren't socially liberal enough.
I support peace in Israel and Palestine. The governments and people in power on all sides are an absolute disgrace, and their unwillingness to pursue peace is a disservice to the people they are meant to be serving. The status quo is not simply untenable; it is unquestionably unacceptable.

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Luveria
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Postby Luveria » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:26 am

Regnum Dominae wrote:
Luveria wrote:
There would be a better chance advancing social issues by supporting the democratic party which actually is capable of electoral victories.

And completely sell out on foreign policy.


For many people, the democrats aren't socially liberal enough.


I don't think they are socially liberal enough at all but since democrats can win against republicans that's certainly a better option than letting the GOP have their way.

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Zweite Alaje
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Postby Zweite Alaje » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:28 am

Regnum Dominae wrote:
Luveria wrote:
There would be a better chance advancing social issues by supporting the democratic party which actually is capable of electoral victories.

And completely sell out on foreign policy.


For many people, the democrats aren't socially liberal enough.

It suck for people like me who are socially to the right of Dems, but left of the GOP.
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I've been: Communist , Fascist
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Postby Winland » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:29 am

Luveria wrote:
Regnum Dominae wrote:And completely sell out on foreign policy.


For many people, the democrats aren't socially liberal enough.


I don't think they are socially liberal enough at all but since democrats can win against republicans that's certainly a better option than letting the GOP have their way.

My hope is that both the GOP and Dems die off and the Libertarians and Greens bacome the main parties fighting it out.
It is very easy to be blinded to the essential uselessness of them by the sense of achievement you get from getting them to work at all.

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Zweite Alaje
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Postby Zweite Alaje » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:30 am

Winland wrote:
Luveria wrote:
I don't think they are socially liberal enough at all but since democrats can win against republicans that's certainly a better option than letting the GOP have their way.

My hope is that both the GOP and Dems die off and the Libertarians and Greens bacome the main parties fighting it out.

Hell no, that'd be even worse!!!
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Luveria
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Postby Luveria » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:30 am

Winland wrote:
Luveria wrote:
I don't think they are socially liberal enough at all but since democrats can win against republicans that's certainly a better option than letting the GOP have their way.

My hope is that both the GOP and Dems die off and the Libertarians and Greens bacome the main parties fighting it out.


There would likely need to be some electoral reform to give other parties a viable chance in the current american two-party system.

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Regnum Dominae
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Postby Regnum Dominae » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:33 am

Winland wrote:
Luveria wrote:
I don't think they are socially liberal enough at all but since democrats can win against republicans that's certainly a better option than letting the GOP have their way.

My hope is that both the GOP and Dems die off and the Libertarians and Greens bacome the main parties fighting it out.

That's my hope, too.

Either that or the Democrats can evolve into Greens and Republicans evolve into Libertarians.

Though I'm not sure I'd want to belong to a party that 20 years ago was advocating rape.

With a Greens vs Libertarians system we'd at least have the silly foreign policy and social freedom debates (mostly) out of the way.
I support peace in Israel and Palestine. The governments and people in power on all sides are an absolute disgrace, and their unwillingness to pursue peace is a disservice to the people they are meant to be serving. The status quo is not simply untenable; it is unquestionably unacceptable.

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Luveria
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Postby Luveria » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:37 am

Regnum Dominae wrote:
Winland wrote:My hope is that both the GOP and Dems die off and the Libertarians and Greens bacome the main parties fighting it out.

That's my hope, too.

Either that or the Democrats can evolve into Greens and Republicans evolve into Libertarians.

Though I'm not sure I'd want to belong to a party that 20 years ago was advocating rape.

With a Greens vs Libertarians system we'd at least have the silly foreign policy and social freedom debates (mostly) out of the way.


I think the republicans are only going to get more extreme before they become more moderate.

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Regnum Dominae
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Postby Regnum Dominae » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:40 am

Luveria wrote:
Regnum Dominae wrote:That's my hope, too.

Either that or the Democrats can evolve into Greens and Republicans evolve into Libertarians.

Though I'm not sure I'd want to belong to a party that 20 years ago was advocating rape.

With a Greens vs Libertarians system we'd at least have the silly foreign policy and social freedom debates (mostly) out of the way.


I think the republicans are only going to get more extreme before they become more moderate.

Give them 20 years, most of the old-guard dinosaurs (to borrow a British political term) will fade away and lose their remaining influence.
I support peace in Israel and Palestine. The governments and people in power on all sides are an absolute disgrace, and their unwillingness to pursue peace is a disservice to the people they are meant to be serving. The status quo is not simply untenable; it is unquestionably unacceptable.

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TreLanka
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Postby TreLanka » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:40 am

Never happen here is why. The Libertarians have no ability to lead. They will always be a protest vote for several reason. They do not tolerate moderation. Which in US politics is a disastrous.

A mainstream section of the Libertarian party is borderline anarchists in the view of what the government should do and shouldn't do. They have little regard to setting policy and making the government more accountable. For that reason they will never get elected en mass.


However, as a protest vote they could continue to do well. If the Libs get 3-6 then one of the major parties will start to steal their ideas and use it to keep getting elected. Like the Democrats did to the socialists in the 1930s.

If you care about non-intervention, and do not support assassinations drones and kill lists keep voting Lib. Thats the only way to make the two major parties wake-up and realize the current situation is unacceptable.

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