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Pirates... as in Argh, matey

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Galloism
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Pirates... as in Argh, matey

Postby Galloism » Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:33 am

A court in the US has labelled conservationist group Sea Shepherd "pirates".

Judge Alex Kozinski said the group's "aggressive and high-profile attacks" on Japan's whaling fleet endangered lives, ordering them to stop.

US-based Sea Shepherd has for many years chased the Japanese whalers, attempting to disrupt the annual hunt.

The two sides have frequently clashed at sea, blaming each other for collisions and damage.

Three Sea Shepherd ships have been involved a stand-off and clashes with the whaling fleet in the icy waters of the Southern Ocean for several weeks.

They have been trying to prevent the Japanese ships from refuelling from a tanker ship, the Sun Laurel. Both parties released video footage this week which they said showed the other deliberately ramming their ships.

Sea Shepherd has also accused the whalers of using water cannon and stun grenades against them, and says Japan has deployed a military icebreaker, the Shirase, to intimidate them - something Japan rejects.

'Embodiment of piracy'

The 9th US Circuit Court of Appeals issued an injunction last year banning Sea Shepherd from going within 500m of Japan's ships.

Its ruling on Monday clears the way for Japan, which calls the activists terrorists, to launch more extensive legal action against them.

Judge Kozinski overturned an earlier district court ruling which had sided with the activists.

"When you ram ships, hurl glass containers of acid, drag metal-reinforced ropes in the water to damage propellers and rudders, launch smoke bombs and flares with hooks; and point high-powered lasers at other ships, you are, without a doubt, a pirate," he said.

"The activities that Cetacean [the Japanese whalers] alleges Sea Shepherd has engaged in are clear instances of violent acts for private ends, the very embodiment of piracy."

He added that the illegality of whaling in Australian waters did not excuse Sea Shepherd's activities.

"It is for Australia, not Sea Shepherd, to police Australia's court orders."

Sea Shepherd argues that the US court has no jurisdiction over foreign-flagged vessels sailing in Australian waters with an international crew.

There has been an international ban on commercial whaling for 25 years, but Japan sends its fleet to the Antarctic in the autumn or winter each year, returning the following spring, with the aim of catching hundreds of whales.

Tokyo says the hunt is part of a scientific research programme and that it is obliged by the whaling treaty to sell meat by-products. But critics say the hunt is commercial whaling in another guise and has no scientific value.

Australia is also taking legal action against Japan over whaling.

But Japan's fisheries minister, Yoshimasa Hayashi, has said whaling is part of Japan's culture and that it will never give up hunting the animals.

"Japan is an island nation surrounded by the sea, so taking some good protein from the ocean is very important. For food security I think it's very important," he told AFP.

"So why don't we at least agree to disagree? We have this culture and you don't have that culture... so I just would like to say 'please understand this is our culture'."


http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21589352

They should totally exploit this, and start wearing traditional pirate clothing. The captain could be drunk all the time.

It'd be the best whale wars ever!

Anyway, I just want to say: good. The Japanese may be pulling a fast one (and they are), but it is not the sea shepherd's place to be ramming ships and launching projectiles.
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Kleomentia
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Postby Kleomentia » Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:34 am

The "pirates" are criminals and should be treated as such. But they did make me lol.
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San Leggera
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Postby San Leggera » Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:34 am

The only solution to this is the get the HMS Victory to gun both ships down.
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Khadgar
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Postby Khadgar » Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:36 am

I thought pirates were dangerous, not stupid and self righteous.
No, of course not. They never do tests. Not many real deeds either. Oh, conversation with your grandmother's shade in a darkened room, the odd love potion or two, but comes a doubter, why, then it's the wrong day, the planets are not in line, the entrails are not favorable, "we don't do tests"!
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Soberkistan
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Postby Soberkistan » Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:38 am

Khadgar wrote:I thought pirates were dangerous, not stupid and self righteous.


The Sea Shepard folks are all of the above.

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Khadgar
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Postby Khadgar » Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:41 am

Soberkistan wrote:
Khadgar wrote:I thought pirates were dangerous, not stupid and self righteous.


The Sea Shepard folks are all of the above.


Honestly I've never seen their show, all I know is they managed to fuck up one of their own boats being stupid. Aside from that I thought they'd settled on being merely obnoxious.
No, of course not. They never do tests. Not many real deeds either. Oh, conversation with your grandmother's shade in a darkened room, the odd love potion or two, but comes a doubter, why, then it's the wrong day, the planets are not in line, the entrails are not favorable, "we don't do tests"!
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New Kriegizstan
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Postby New Kriegizstan » Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:46 am

Pirates used to be cool, swashbuckling, looting adventurers and outlaws... then the Somali's came along and ruined everything.
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Takaram
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Postby Takaram » Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:49 am

San Leggera wrote:The only solution to this is the get the HMS Victory to gun both ships down.


Bah, the Victory can't even float and never even went after pirates in the first place. The USS Constitution, on the other hand, has experience in both.
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Kambana
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Postby Kambana » Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:49 am

Yep, pirates.
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San Leggera
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Postby San Leggera » Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:53 am

Takaram wrote:
San Leggera wrote:The only solution to this is the get the HMS Victory to gun both ships down.


Bah, the Victory can't even float and never even went after pirates in the first place. The USS Constitution, on the other hand, has experience in both.

Nah, it'd have to be a neutral country's vessel.
Last edited by San Leggera on Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Alien Space Bats
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Re: Pirates... as in Argh, matey

Postby Alien Space Bats » Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:58 am

You know, leaving yourself susceptible to a charge of piracy is a pretty stupid move.

Aside from the very real possibility of summary execution (the Law of the Sea allows military ship captains to do that to pirates), there are no jurisdictional lines to fall back on: If the Japanese want to grab these people, haul them back to Japan and throw them in jail forever, they can do that.

And Japanese jails are not nice places.
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greed and death
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Postby greed and death » Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:59 am

Good ruling hopefully they will be imprisoned in the US or Japan soon enough.
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greed and death
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Postby greed and death » Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:00 am

Alien Space Bats wrote:You know, leaving yourself susceptible to a charge of piracy is a pretty stupid move.

Aside from the very real possibility of summary execution (the Law of the Sea allows military ship captains to do that to pirates), there are no jurisdictional lines to fall back on: If the Japanese want to grab these people, haul them back to Japan and throw them in jail forever, they can do that.

And Japanese jails are not nice places.

Sit in a tiny empty room only getting to see your lawyer once a day for two hours until you confess. 90% conviction rate.
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Alien Space Bats
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Re: Pirates... as in Argh, matey

Postby Alien Space Bats » Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:02 am

greed and death wrote:Sit in a tiny empty room only getting to see your lawyer once a day for two hours until you confess. 90% conviction rate.

The Japanese take great pride in extracting confessions from people.

That's true pretty much regardless of whether you're guilty or not.
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Camelza
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Postby Camelza » Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:05 am

It's a Japanese government conspiracy!

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Soberkistan
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Postby Soberkistan » Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:18 am

Khadgar wrote:
Soberkistan wrote:
The Sea Shepard folks are all of the above.


Honestly I've never seen their show, all I know is they managed to fuck up one of their own boats being stupid. Aside from that I thought they'd settled on being merely obnoxious.


Their own stupidity is what makes them dangerous. They are going to get someone killed on one side or the other.

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Purpelia
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Postby Purpelia » Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:20 am

Wait. O_O Has America actually done something I can agree with? I need to double check the sources of this. That or I need to re consider my drinking habits.
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Postby The Corparation » Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:24 am

Khadgar wrote:
Soberkistan wrote:
The Sea Shepard folks are all of the above.


Honestly I've never seen their show, all I know is they managed to fuck up one of their own boats being stupid. Aside from that I thought they'd settled on being merely obnoxious.

They've done fare more than that. They've pretended to be shot, and they didn't fuckup the boat by being stupid they intentionally moved it in front of the main factory hip and turned of the engines. And have intentionally rammed some of the smaller vessels. Keep in mind that in all of these instances they insist that Japanese are doing it to them, while video from both sides shows them doing the ramming and engaging in dangerous maneuvers. Also they throw acid at the ships, and by acid I mean rancid butter. Because that totally does stuff other then make deckhand get a mop.

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Daistallia 2104
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Postby Daistallia 2104 » Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:51 am

greed and death wrote:
Alien Space Bats wrote:You know, leaving yourself susceptible to a charge of piracy is a pretty stupid move.

Aside from the very real possibility of summary execution (the Law of the Sea allows military ship captains to do that to pirates), there are no jurisdictional lines to fall back on: If the Japanese want to grab these people, haul them back to Japan and throw them in jail forever, they can do that.

And Japanese jails are not nice places.

Sit in a tiny empty room only getting to see your lawyer once a day for two hours until you confess. 90% conviction rate.


And that's when they play nice.

Note that in Japan the right to legal counsel is quite restricted. No legal counsel during your 16 hour "interrogation". If you can't afford legal counsel, you will get 1 visit from a legal aid lawyer until trial.

When not in interrogation, you will be in a harshly lit room under observation.

And physical violence is commonly used both as part of the interrogation and as handling.

(And may whatever gods you believe in have mercy if you're a non-Japanese not fluent in the language....)
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Daistallia 2104
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Postby Daistallia 2104 » Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:54 am

And ASB, it'd be rather interesting to see what happened if Japan tried to apply that summary execution. ...
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Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness. - Terry Pratchett
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Daistallia 2104
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Postby Daistallia 2104 » Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:56 am

And ASB, it'd be rather interesting to see what happened if Japan tried to apply that summary execution. ...
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Choronzon
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Postby Choronzon » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:45 am

Fuck Japanese whalers. The system protecting poachers doesn't suddenly change my opinion of those who would fight such a travesty.

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Postby Trotskylvania » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:51 am

They're not going to stop whaling unless Sea Shepards engage in actual honest to god piracy, so we're at an impasse.
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Souseiseki
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Postby Souseiseki » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:10 am

ahahahaha~

The Corparation wrote:
Khadgar wrote:
Honestly I've never seen their show, all I know is they managed to fuck up one of their own boats being stupid. Aside from that I thought they'd settled on being merely obnoxious.

They've done fare more than that. They've pretended to be shot, and they didn't fuckup the boat by being stupid they intentionally moved it in front of the main factory hip and turned of the engines. And have intentionally rammed some of the smaller vessels. Keep in mind that in all of these instances they insist that Japanese are doing it to them, while video from both sides shows them doing the ramming and engaging in dangerous maneuvers. Also they throw acid at the ships, and by acid I mean rancid butter. Because that totally does stuff other then make deckhand get a mop.

Image
Image


consistently sending out their zodiac is dangerous conditions and nearly losing it

one the ex-military crew members suggests making a checklist to avoid sending out the zodiac consistently without a radio and nearly killing everyone, this angers the the second in command (who cannot read maps and refuses to do so. does not understand what degrees are.)

literally every situation of them going into ice is stupid. sending crewmembers down below to prop up the hull with wooden beams. the people filming the show iirc now refuse to actually be on the same ship as them and have their own.

decided trying to sneak up to a search and rescue operation was a good idea

prop-fouler lol

tried to force helicopter to fly in dangerous conditions (not to help the search and rescue they fucked up, just to try and find a ship)

got their COOL ASS STEALTH SHIP sunk in like the first day

etc.

etc.


They're not going to stop whaling unless Sea Shepards engage in actual honest to god piracy, so we're at an impasse.


they'll probably continue entirely out of spite (see: now)
Last edited by Souseiseki on Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Esternial
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Postby Esternial » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:17 am

No surprising:

Image
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