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The North Pacific Wire

Talk about nation management, regional politics, and why llamas are a cooler national animal than squirrels.
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McMasterdonia
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Posts: 514
Founded: Apr 19, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

The North Pacific Wire

Postby McMasterdonia » Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:39 pm

The TNP Wire


The North Pacific is proud to introduce The TNP-Wire. The TNP Wire functions as our regional newspaper. We have had it running for about the past 8 months to see how it would go and have used a variety of formats. We now feel that it is ready to be introduced to the Nationstates forums.

These articles will be primarily tabloid in style, and will be written by various individuals in The North Pacific. As such, they will not reflect the views of the North Pacific Government. For all official news, please look to our official regional updates that are distributed from time to time in our embassy.

We are proud to introduce our first article:


The Sovereign Confederation


January 30th, 2013. The Halls of Diplomacy, The Pacific.

Journalists of the TNP-Wire has received confidential documents from a senior diplomat of a secret meeting of regions, namely the Pacific, Osiris, The Rejected Realms, Equilism and Gatesville. These five regions are in the process of discussing uniting under The Confederation of Sovereign regions. This Confederation has since gone public here. Documents the Wire received at least a week ago outline the organizations goals as following:

"The Confederation of Sovereign Regions is a brand new organization, created by a group of regions dissatisfied with the interregional status quo. We believe that regional and interregional politics have grown stale, and that an emphasis on regional sovereignty will provide more vibrant politics both within and between regions. We insist that regions can and should work together based on mutual interests rather than absolute ideologies. We believe that a new paradigm for interregional politics will benefit our member regions as well as many regions across the NationStates world."

Image
From Left: Equilism, Osiris, The Pacific, Gatesville and The Rejected Realms get cosy under their new alliance...


Sources tell us that the recently revitalized The Pacific is leading the charge, hoping to ride into a new period of activity and prosperity, based on its new interregional alliances with recently revived and uncertain Gatesville, Equilism, Osiris, and The Rejected Realms.

"The aim of SovCon is to promote and protect regional and national sovereignty - both our own and that of others. It will be open to all regions who share SovCon ideals and goals and sign the charter, which is provided below. SovCon will be managed by an Executive Council drawn from member regions, who will have the final say over how it operates, with input from an assembly of regional representatives."

The Wire is sceptical about the desire to promote and protect regional and national sovereignty. Gatesville an important member of the alliance, has in the past violated regional sovereignty at any opportunity. Including the recent coup of Osiris, with members of the Empire, and uncounted incursions into The North Pacific itself. The SovCon alleged goal is to protect regional sovereignty. This should be viewed with an air of scepticism due to Gatesville's apparent sudden change in practical political philosophy.

In usual, romanticized rhetoric, the SovCon outlines the faults of nationstates placing them firmly on the newer generation. The coups of old and mistakes of the past, seemingly irrelevant in how Nationstates has changed over time.

Image
Astarial and Gaspo declare that after all these years, now is the time to take a stand



"This is not the world we wanted. This is not the future we had planned. The younger generations have failed to nurture what was given them. They have failed to safeguard the world from the ravages of boredom and mediocrity. They have lost sight of basic security and forsaken independence for a cosmopolitan pretension that commands the abandonment of sovereignty."

The Wire questions the true intent behind such an alliance, and we pledge to keep our readership informed of further developments. Does this new alliance mean that GCR unity is now going to take a back seat? With The South Pacific, The North Pacific, The West Pacific, Balder and Lazarus, all left in the dark regarding these negotiations. Does the alliance between The Pacific and Gatesville indicate that feeder imperialism will soon become front page news as it once was?

Our sources confirm that The Committee discussing this treaty include members from all regions involved, and remarkably two senior members of the Empire:

Astarial
Biyah
Cheesy
Cormac Stark
Dalimbar
Featherwing
Gaspo
Kraut Killers
mad jack
Nevadar
Todd McCloud
Ukaraine
Whamabama

Interesting times ahead. The TNP-Wire will keep our readership up to date on the news as it breaks

~TNP-Wire

Edited - name changed from information received a week ago, trr instead of TEP oops ;)
Last edited by McMasterdonia on Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
TNP Minister for Foreign Affairs
Member of TNP Security Council
General of The North Pacific Army
Minister for Foreign Affairs (Ret.)
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Gasponia
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Posts: 17
Founded: Jan 23, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Gasponia » Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:55 pm

The factual inaccuracies in this publication significantly weaken its strength, my friend. A few comments...

1) Apart from an open declaration of war during the Empire (a declaration which was effectively meaningless, as no action was ever taken pursuant to that declaration), Gatesville has never attacked The North Pacific, nor even cared to bother with it. During the GBM-Empire Matthius affair, individual Gatesvillians participated in the activites, and Gatesville was accused of involvement, but this is frankly untrue. Simple fact.

2) The name of the organization is wrong. Your information is inaccurate, outdated, and irrelevant.

3) The quotes you provide as substance are inaccurate. A complete copy of the publication documents is publicly viewable at http://ns.npowned.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=3134, and contains none of the hyperbolic rhetoric you credit this project with spouting.

4) Two whole members of the Empire! Golly me!

5) Asta and I retain our youthful vigor, I'll have you know. And The Pacific doesn't look good in purple.

6) Regarding TSP and Balder, their exclusion was primarily a function of a lack of close relationships with any of the drafting committee, and the fact that their current status as UDL/TNI pets, respectively, represented an inherent contradiction with the plainly stated goals and values of the organization.

Even tabloids check their facts, mcm.

Warmest regards,

Gaspo
Senator, The Pacific
Co-Creator, Sovereign Confederation
Last edited by Gasponia on Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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McMasterdonia
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Posts: 514
Founded: Apr 19, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby McMasterdonia » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:09 pm

:rofl:

The documents we received were from about a week ago (possibly a bit more), when some of the inflammatory remarks have since been removed. The public comments must be tamer than the private ones, it seems ;) The draft that I received is viewable here http://pastebin.com/FysAV4Rq

Also, I thought you would find this, at the least amusing. The Empire reference, for example, was included for that purpose. As people do bring that up at any opportunity. "Omg the Empire". :lol2:

I'm surprised at your assessment of The South Pacific and Balder. I doubt they would agree with you on that Gaspo.
TNP Minister for Foreign Affairs
Member of TNP Security Council
General of The North Pacific Army
Minister for Foreign Affairs (Ret.)
Minister for Defence (Ret.)
Minister For Communications (Ret.)
Minister for Welcoming(Ret.)
Former Delegate of The North Pacific x 4
Vice Delegate of the North Pacific (Ret.)

Authored Security Council Resolutions

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Solorni
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Posts: 1197
Founded: Sep 04, 2007
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Solorni » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:09 pm

OMG! Balder has two whole members from TNI? Golly me :P
Lovely Queen of Balder

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Unibot III
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Founded: Mar 11, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Unibot III » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:14 pm

I don't think it's fair to paint all of the older generation as "coup-loving" -- there were players that promoted social liberal democracy in NationStates and actively fought against the destructive practices that preoccupied most of these players' time.

This group of so-called "sovereigntists" however is promoting the few rotten apples from the past as though they constituted the majority, while demonizing the new generation (who also aren't a monolithic bloc either) for actually respecting the values of regional sovereignty that they simultaneously promote and actively intend on undermining with feeder imperialism. This propaganda from Biyah and others only works on those that read with their noses held tightly shut and their minds closed.

Very good investigative journalism, McMasterdonia.

- Unibot
Last edited by Unibot III on Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:27 pm, edited 3 times in total.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25/05/2008 | Delegate of The Rejected Realms | Gameplay Alignment: -18 / -13
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Solorni
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Founded: Sep 04, 2007
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Solorni » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:26 pm

http://w11.zetaboards.com/Balder/topic/8166150/1/

Remember how TNI is at war with the UDL? Here is the TNI puppets in an alliance with the UDL puppets! :P

Strange indeed!

Also, Unibot and I being on the same side of something means that this must mean the end of days of NS.
Last edited by Solorni on Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Lovely Queen of Balder

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Gasponia
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Posts: 17
Founded: Jan 23, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Gasponia » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:33 pm

Unibot III wrote:I don't think it's fair to paint all of the older generation as "coup-loving" -- there were players that promoted social liberal democracy in NationStates and actively fought against the destructive practices that preoccupied most of these players' time.

This group of so-called "sovereigntists" however is promoting the few rotten apples from the past as though they constituted the majority, while demonizing the new generation for actually respecting the values of regional sovereignty that they simultaneously promote and actively intend on undermining with feeder imperialism. This propaganda from Biyah and others only works on those that read with their noses held tightly shut and their minds closed.

- Unibot

We are the older generation you claim to know better than we know ourselves. We played this game for years, before you even joined, much less "mattered". Your history is inaccurate, biased, and originates from a distant armchair, rather than any meaningful experience. These are facts; I'm sorry if they don't fit with your self-image, but perhaps your magic mirror needs a tune-up.

Regarding the idea of "sovereigntists", I wonder which rotten apples you're referring to? The ADN, the RLA, the CDA? The Union of Sovereigns? All of these organizations have grand histories (of which you know little of substance, I would note). Collectively, the individuals who developed SovCon helped run those organizations. These bad apples you accuse us of promoting are us ourselves. I'm sorry if blind adherence to moralistic dogma doesn't sit well, again, with your distorted world view, but they are facts, plain and simple. I suggest you remove the rose-colored glasses, and look at the world as it is.

Feeder imperialism has been one of your catchphrases for far too long. It is meaningless. Three GCRs have joined together in working on this project, and the door is open for several more; the best you've managed to do is manipulate one. Jealous?

Lastly, with regard to your comments regarding our "propaganda", I frankly don't understand why your tights are in a twist. You run an organization which purports, quite vehemently, to defend to the utmost each individual region's right to determine its own path in this world. Please demonstrate to me (in a manner devoid of paranoid conspiracy theories) how any of the aforementioned SovCon founding documents indicate any behavior contrary to that, apart from our lack of personal interest in tag-raiding and minor defenses. We don't have the same hobbies as you do, but the underlying goals are the same. The only thing I can think of is that you're either deeply hurt that you weren't invited to the party, or you've got some personal beef here that you're trying to pass off as altruistic self-righteousness.

Respectfully,

Gaspo
Senator, The Pacific
Co-Creator, SovCon
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Weed
Diplomat
 
Posts: 677
Founded: Oct 23, 2011
Anarchy

Postby Weed » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:41 pm

Now... When you say "Gatesville" what do you mean? Is it one particular successor region?

EDIT: Also, this is a good first article. Makes me excited to see more to come! :)
Last edited by Weed on Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Milograd
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Founded: Feb 10, 2011
Benevolent Dictatorship

Postby Milograd » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:42 pm

RE: TSP being UDL's puppet

I'm not sure if you're kidding or not, but I assure you that your statement about TSP isn't true. Hile is the only member of TSP's government who comes to mind as being an active UDL member and we had a pretty large falling out with Unibot et al last year. Furthermore, most of the SPA's recent missions have been raids.

Written on a phone. Please excuse any typos.
Last edited by Milograd on Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:47 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Retired

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The Dourian Embassy
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Posts: 1497
Founded: Nov 15, 2007
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby The Dourian Embassy » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:58 pm

National Sovereignty is a cause that is very near and dear to my heart. I'm assuming most of what's being said about this organization is based on the original post, which doesn't apparently tell the whole story. That said, I think we can all agree that NatSov deserves an organization that is in support of it, and I can get behind such an organization 100%.
Treize Dreizehn, President of Douria.

cause ain't no such things as halfway crooks

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Unibot III
Minister
 
Posts: 3043
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Unibot III » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:01 pm

Gasponia wrote:We are the older generation you claim to know better than we know ourselves. We played this game for years, before you even joined, much less "mattered". Your history is inaccurate, biased, and originates from a distant armchair, rather than any meaningful experience. These are facts; I'm sorry if they don't fit with your self-image, but perhaps your magic mirror needs a tune-up.


I don't trust you to give an accurate account of how players were. Largely because it is in your self-interest (when creating this gang) and a natural tendency in general to assign your own attitudes to your generation as though they were a homogeneous bloc that resembled yourself.

I'll quote Flemingovia from 2005, since you like to counter my arguments with some sort of variation of ageism,

However, it seems to me that there are two types of players of this game. There are those who thrive on the cut and thrust of conflict. Whether Invader or defender, it seems to me, their personality types are remarkably similar. One trait is one that the minister has clearly displayed here: They play their own game with little regard for the effect of their actions on others. You all know the nation type.

There is another type of player who is not attracted to conflict, but rather to community building. They are often found in OOC, or External affairs, or role play, or arcane areas of government happily drafting laws and UN resolutions. It is this type of player that we lost a lot of (to the region or the game) in both conflicts. Thel kept a list of hundreds of nations who quit during the GB era. I kept a list - now lost in a computer crash - of over 40 who quit in the PD era. Some of these were old hands who did not want the conflict, others were new players who took one look and said "WTF" and quit the game before they began.

In short, the minister may have "kept the game interesting" for himself and like minded people - hell, even for me. But the selfish cost of that was incredibly high. And it cut right across what I believe is the responsibility of a feeder region to nurture new players. The place of a feeder region in the game is too important for it to be the private plaything of any player.

I believe that a lot of TNP's problems in late 2004-2005 stem from the fact that, months earlier, the GB conflict attracted to the region a number of players of the former type - who thrive on conflict and verbal warfare. this is a stark contrast to the region of early 2004, where most people were community builders. I think we are still seeing the effect of that shift in the regional makeup. Someone said to me recently that "if the NP is not in a time of crisis, they will go hunting for one."

On a wider issue, I am coming to the brutal conclusion that if Nationstates is not a sophisticated enough game to sustain high levels of activity without correspondingly high levels of anguish and stress, it may not actually be a game worth playing.


Not all players from your age were ridden with the belief that inter-feeder conflict should be encouraged. Some believed in constructive communities and region building, but their aspirations were on hold for the personal interests of the destructive few.

These bad apples you accuse us of promoting are us ourselves.


You misunderstand, I agree with you in saying that this is blatant self-promotion from a few bad apples who may have been members of some very good organizations in the past. Many of whom are now very critical of these great organizations which they simultaneously our proud to show off in their signature as having been a former member.

Feeder imperialism has been one of your catchphrases for far too long. It is meaningless. Three GCRs have joined together in working on this project, and the door is open for several more; the best you've managed to do is manipulate one. Jealous?


I don't believe the regions joining said project are being imperalized. That would generally defeat the purpose of joining said organization. It's the GCRs which don't join the organization I would be concerned about. :roll:

Lastly, with regard to your comments regarding our "propaganda", I frankly don't understand why your tights are in a twist. You run an organization which purports, quite vehemently, to defend to the utmost each individual region's right to determine its own path in this world. Please demonstrate to me (in a manner devoid of paranoid conspiracy theories) how any of the aforementioned SovCon founding documents indicate any behavior contrary to that, apart from our lack of personal interest in tag-raiding and minor defenses. We don't have the same hobbies as you do, but the underlying goals are the same. The only thing I can think of is that you're either deeply hurt that you weren't invited to the party, or you've got some personal beef here that you're trying to pass off as altruistic self-righteousness.


*takes a deep breath* Lot's of bullshit to get unpack in this paragraph, but let's try.

(1) I don't oppose the idea of feeders of working together.

(2) I oppose the idea of promoting sovereignty via destruction, chaos-making and criticizing the regional immigration practices of other sovereign regions. You undermine your own cause in every way.

(3) The only one here with a personal beef has largely pushed this "sovereigntist" initiative as backlash against the UDL for removing him from the UDL for personal harassment; or as he put it: "you're all going to burn". If this was his idea of a bonfire, I must say I remain unimpressed. A group of largely old fogies complaining about the lack of coups and like-minded younger players would not have been what I had in mind as "payback", I believe we call it a "senior home".
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25/05/2008 | Delegate of The Rejected Realms | Gameplay Alignment: -18 / -13
Unibotian Factbook // An Analysis of NationStates Generations // The Gameplay Alignment Test // NS Weather // How do I join the UDL? // The Transpacific Trade
Paradise Found // The Unibotian Life Expectancy Index // Proudly Authored 9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Commended by SC#78 // The Polysemes of Nativeness;

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✯ Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

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Gasponia
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Posts: 17
Founded: Jan 23, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Gasponia » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:30 pm

Milograd wrote:RE: TSP being UDL's puppet

I'm not sure if you're kidding or not, but I assure you that your statement about TSP isn't true. Hile is the only member of TSP's government who comes to mind as being an active UDL member and we had a pretty large falling out with Unibot et al last year. Furthermore, most of the SPA's recent missions have been raids.

Written on a phone. Please excuse any typos.

As discussed via IRC, I wish it to be made quite clear, as Milo astutely noted when we spoke, that my intent in discussing TSP was to illustrate a point regarding UDL influence in GCR affairs, through the use of mild artistic license. Two prominent members of TSP have notable and, to varying degrees, ongoing relationships with the UDL. One is, in fact, the head of the UDL's Office of Feeder and Sinker Affairs. An organization which claims express nothing but respect for the sovereignty of the GCRs seems to go to quite significant lengths to involve itself in the affairs of those regions.

So that nothing is left to question, Milo understands that my comment was a device used to illustrate a point, crafted as an appropriate response to a grossly overblown tabloid - crud begets crud, in other words. I have immense respect for The South Pacific, as they have an exceptional history, similar to The Pacific's, with regard to their long-term independence and active protection of their sovereignty, with virtually no interruptions, since before I joined NS in 2005.

As a final note, I was struck by the beauty of this comment. To adopt a term the UDL shamelessly stole from The Daily Show, I present you with your Moment of Zen:
[01:22:06] * @Milograd just wanted to make sure that he wouldn't have to deal with another person accusing him of being a part of the international UDL zionist lizardmen cabal.
Last edited by Gasponia on Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Gasponia
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Founded: Jan 23, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Gasponia » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:33 pm

Unibot III wrote:*stuff*

Tl;dr, you weren't there. We were. You claim to know us, and those we knew, and what we did, better than we know ourselves, our friends, and our own stories. This is not new behavior. Your information, as usual, is wrong. Your history, as usual, is inaccurate. Your bias, as usual, is obvious. Check your facts.
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Whamabama
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Posts: 358
Founded: Feb 04, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Whamabama » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:34 pm

I'm not going to bother with quotes, as to what I am referring to should be obvious,

I have a few points I would like to address.

1. We have never stated that inter feeder conflict should be encouraged. Did you not read our actual charter. our actual releases?

2. regions who are not members need not fear we will imperialize them. That would be quite the opposite of what we have in our charter. Did you not read our actual charter. our actual releases?

3. I am at a total loss at this "promoting sovereignty via destruction, chaos-making" It isn't in the charter, not in anything we actually released. Did you not read our actual charter. our actual releases?

4. In no way is SovCon related, influenced by, or in backlash for anything UDL, or UDL related. This idea for this group was created originally in 2009 before the UDL even existed. It's been tweeaked a few times over the years, but much has remained the same. As well as the purpose of bringing a group of like minded individuals, and regions desiring not only promoting regional sovereignty, but also a more realist approach to politics in NS. Did you not read our actual charter. our actual releases?

5. Did you not read our actual charter. our actual releases?
Last edited by Whamabama on Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Unibot III
Minister
 
Posts: 3043
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Unibot III » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:37 pm

Gasponia wrote:As discussed via IRC, I wish it to be made quite clear, as Milo astutely noted when we spoke, that my intent in discussing TSP was to illustrate a point regarding UDL influence in GCR affairs, through the use of mild artistic license. Two prominent members of TSP have notable and, to varying degrees, ongoing relationships with the UDL. One is, in fact, the head of the UDL's Office of Feeder and Sinker Affairs. An organization which claims express nothing but respect for the sovereignty of the GCRs seems to go to quite significant lengths to involve itself in the affairs of those regions.


This is the first time I've heard of someone criticizing my appointment of Hileville as Chief of Feeder and Sinker Affairs, since he was the logical choice: experienced in feeder politics, respectful and diplomatic. We have a diplomat for Feeder and Sinkers, not because of any extensive involvement, but because diplomacy in Feeders and Sinkers requires experience in the unique political culture of GCRs.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25/05/2008 | Delegate of The Rejected Realms | Gameplay Alignment: -18 / -13
Unibotian Factbook // An Analysis of NationStates Generations // The Gameplay Alignment Test // NS Weather // How do I join the UDL? // The Transpacific Trade
Paradise Found // The Unibotian Life Expectancy Index // Proudly Authored 9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Commended by SC#78 // The Polysemes of Nativeness;

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✯ Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

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Unibot III
Minister
 
Posts: 3043
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Unibot III » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:42 pm

Whamabama wrote:-snip-


Why would anyone in god's name put down in their document briefs that they were considering destructive policies? Nonetheless, this little discourse, "They have failed to safeguard the world from the ravages of boredom and mediocrity", should say it all, especially when a lot of the staff has extensive history couping feeders and sinkers as recent as like four weeks ago.

This idea for this group was created originally in 2009 before the UDL even existed.


I question not when the idea originated, but the timing of it's release now and not 2009. But thanks for the misdirection. :roll:
Last edited by Unibot III on Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25/05/2008 | Delegate of The Rejected Realms | Gameplay Alignment: -18 / -13
Unibotian Factbook // An Analysis of NationStates Generations // The Gameplay Alignment Test // NS Weather // How do I join the UDL? // The Transpacific Trade
Paradise Found // The Unibotian Life Expectancy Index // Proudly Authored 9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Commended by SC#78 // The Polysemes of Nativeness;

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
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Cormac Stark
Diplomat
 
Posts: 579
Founded: Apr 11, 2012
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Cormac Stark » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:51 pm

Unibot III wrote:Why would anyone in god's name put down in their document briefs that they were considering destructive policies? Nonetheless, this little discourse, "They have failed to safeguard the world from the ravages of boredom and mediocrity", should say it all, especially when a lot of the staff has extensive history couping feeders and sinkers as recent as like four weeks ago.

The problem is that you're essentially quoting mole bait there. We deliberately made it inflammatory so that if it got leaked, people would be taken in and responding not to our actual organization and plans but to their own freaking out and their own perception over what they thought we were going to be about. Congratulations on taking that bait. Now you might want to respond to what we actually are instead of what you wish we would be based on deliberately inaccurate bait that you took. :palm:
Cormac Somerset-Holland
Χαλεπὰ τὰ καλά (Naught Without Labor)

The Brotherhood of Malice: Lieutenant
Osiris: Vizier (Vice Delegate)
Equilism: Senator and Deputy Chief Information Officer
Balder: Riksdagsledamöter (Assemblyman)
The South Pacific: Assemblyman
Europeia: Citizens' Assembly Member

Mahaj wrote:the region being held by nazis is better than the region being held by Cormac and his ilk.

SkyDip wrote:This is the second time I've agreed with Cormac in a day and half span and I don't like it. He's exactly on point, though.

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Neo Kervoskia
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Postby Neo Kervoskia » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:55 pm

Cormac Stark wrote:
Unibot III wrote:Why would anyone in god's name put down in their document briefs that they were considering destructive policies? Nonetheless, this little discourse, "They have failed to safeguard the world from the ravages of boredom and mediocrity", should say it all, especially when a lot of the staff has extensive history couping feeders and sinkers as recent as like four weeks ago.

The problem is that you're essentially quoting mole bait there. We deliberately made it inflammatory so that if it got leaked, people would be taken in and responding not to our actual organization and plans but to their own freaking out and their own perception over what they thought we were going to be about. Congratulations on taking that bait. Now you might want to respond to what we actually are instead of what you wish we would be based on deliberately inaccurate bait that you took. :palm:

When something sounds too good to be true it usually is.

What mole wouldn't go for that?
Last edited by Neo Kervoskia on Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Weed
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Postby Weed » Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:14 am

Cormac Stark wrote:We deliberately made it inflammatory so that if it got leaked, people would be taken in and responding not to our actual organization and plans but to their own freaking out and their own perception over what they thought we were going to be about.
So... You deliberately derailed your own argument and mission with inaccurate information about yourself? One of the odder things I've heard said around here recently...

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Gasponia
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Postby Gasponia » Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:22 am

Weed wrote:
Cormac Stark wrote:We deliberately made it inflammatory so that if it got leaked, people would be taken in and responding not to our actual organization and plans but to their own freaking out and their own perception over what they thought we were going to be about.
So... You deliberately derailed your own argument and mission with inaccurate information about yourself? One of the odder things I've heard said around here recently...

You are mistaken. As Cormac quite clearly stated, the materials referenced in this tabloid were specifically created to bait moles. We anticipated leaks. As previously mentioned, the content referenced here is in way corresponds to the official documents of SovCon (again, available here: http://ns.npowned.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=3134).

It does make for excellent quoting material, though, don't you think? ;)
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Weed
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Postby Weed » Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:36 am

It still seems like a potentially backward policy to me, "This way, if we have a mole he/she will leak something truly damning, that makes us look really bad, rather than an actual depiction of our organization." Unless I'm misunderstanding the plan? Either way, if someone was going to leak you have equal chance of catching them, unless this "bait" was only presented to a few suspects? I'm not seeing the advantage of giving a mole completely false information to leak... :unsure:

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Gasponia
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Postby Gasponia » Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:39 am

Weed wrote:It still seems like a potentially backward policy to me, "This way, if we have a mole he/she will leak something truly damning, that makes us look really bad, rather than an actual depiction of our organization." Unless I'm misunderstanding the plan? Either way, if someone was going to leak you have equal chance of catching them, unless this "bait" was only presented to a few suspects? I'm not seeing the advantage of giving a mole completely false information to leak... :unsure:

It's not damaging because it's not true. It was constructed to be as inflammatory as possible, but never to represent any official documents of the organization, as evidenced by our clear publication of the proper official documents elsewhere.
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Postby McMasterdonia » Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:06 am

Seems all too convenient, after the original documents have already been released. Put out false information to find the moles. We wanted this information released, we don't have any security problems. :roll:

Interesting as barely two hours ago, a member on the committee listed above told me that it was edited to remove the inflammatory comments as it would get a bad public reaction. And others told me, the document was outdated, not wrong, or deliberate mole bait.

It was constructed to be as inflammatory as possible, but never to represent any official documents of the organization, as evidenced by our clear publication of the proper official documents elsewhere.


As evidenced, by the official, final version of the documents. Clearly you realized releasing such an inflammatory document as the 'official' one was not wise, and toned down the language.

As Weed, said, was is the advantage of giving a mole bad information, that would depict the organization in a bad light? Rather than an accurate reflection of the actual organization?
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Cormac Stark
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Postby Cormac Stark » Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:59 am

The fact that we released our documents prior to publication of this tabloid article or knowledge of its existence does lend credence to what we're saying, since the official documents released differ from that which is quoted in the article. As stated, we anticipated the possibility of a leak. The benefit to allowing misinformation to be leaked is that it has people preparing to respond to deliberately inflammatory information that isn't in our official documents, geared up to attack things that don't reflect the actual situation, and grasping at straws when what they're planning to attack isn't in our official documents. It also enables us to find leaks more easily and plug them.

But if you still don't believe it, consider the reality compared to the inflammatory rhetoric used as bait. "The younger generations have failed to nurture what was given them." -- this is being taken as an attack on newer players and yet we have a blend of veteran and newer players, myself included among the latter. "They have failed to safeguard the world from the ravages of boredom and mediocrity." -- this is taken as advancing a destructive agenda of Feeder imperialism and coups, and yet we have Astarial, who has been a defender for eight years, is a Sepatarch in Osiris, and has served native communities honorably as one of the UDL's own Merrywomen and an FRA Ranger; Madjack, the Pharaoh and Delegate of Osiris, also a former UDL Merryman; Gaspo, a Senator in The Pacific and a Justice on the Court of The North Pacific; and myself, a former UDL Lieutenant whose commitment to native communities is commemorated in the UDL's Hall of Honour, actively involved in two Feeders and a Sinker. In a very real sense, by attacking this new organization as one advancing a destructive agenda Unibot is attacking several of the people who have served native communities, including GCR communities, alongside him.

If you ask yourself if reality matches the inflammatory rhetoric, it's easy to see that it doesn't; and that's the best evidence yet that the rhetoric was nothing more than mole bait, as we've said.
Cormac Somerset-Holland
Χαλεπὰ τὰ καλά (Naught Without Labor)

The Brotherhood of Malice: Lieutenant
Osiris: Vizier (Vice Delegate)
Equilism: Senator and Deputy Chief Information Officer
Balder: Riksdagsledamöter (Assemblyman)
The South Pacific: Assemblyman
Europeia: Citizens' Assembly Member

Mahaj wrote:the region being held by nazis is better than the region being held by Cormac and his ilk.

SkyDip wrote:This is the second time I've agreed with Cormac in a day and half span and I don't like it. He's exactly on point, though.

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Weed
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Postby Weed » Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:20 am

Gasponia wrote:
Weed wrote:It still seems like a potentially backward policy to me, "This way, if we have a mole he/she will leak something truly damning, that makes us look really bad, rather than an actual depiction of our organization." Unless I'm misunderstanding the plan? Either way, if someone was going to leak you have equal chance of catching them, unless this "bait" was only presented to a few suspects? I'm not seeing the advantage of giving a mole completely false information to leak... :unsure:

It's not damaging because it's not true. It was constructed to be as inflammatory as possible, but never to represent any official documents of the organization, as evidenced by our clear publication of the proper official documents elsewhere.

I suppose that does make sense in theory. It didn't play out so well, with a feeder delegate like McM of all people believing the "fake" information or at least giving it thought. Seems to me like, if that is really what happened, it did do damage with McM. Afterall, it isn't truth but perceived truth that matters in the end, and things like this have a tendency to cause at the very least doubt. But I digress, I'll take back my statement at least acknowledge this may have been a wise move on some levels, and leave the posting to parties with more of a dog in the fight than I.

;)

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