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Cyprus Dispute

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

What's your opinion regarding the debate on Cyprus ?

Two-state solution
23
18%
United federal state
76
59%
North to Turkey, South to Greece
29
23%
 
Total votes : 128

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Kemalist
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Cyprus Dispute

Postby Kemalist » Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:56 am

Under Byzantine rule Cyprus prospered despite raids by the Arabs between the 7th century and the 10th century. However by the 12th century the Byzantine Empire was declining. In 1184 a Byzantine prince called Comnenus declared Cyprus independent from the rest of the empire. However independence did not last long. In 1191 Richard I, king of England captured Cyprus. He sold it to a Frenchman named Guy de Lusignan.

The Lusignans ruled Cyprus for 3 centuries. Cyprus became a feudal kingdom where a Catholic elite ruled over the Orthodox majority. However in the 14th century the Italian cities of Genoa and Venice were growing increasingly rich and powerful threatening the independence of Cyrpus. The in 1425 the Mamelukes from Egypt raided Cyprus. Finally a king of Cyprus married a Venetian woman. The king died leaving the queen sole ruler of Cyprus. In 1489 she was persuaded to abdicate and Cyprus came under direct Venetian rule. However the Ottoman Turks were now the rising power in the Mediterranean. In 1571 they conquered Cyprus.

At first most Cypriots welcomed Turkish rule preferring it to the oppressive Venetian rule. The feudal system was abolished and the Turks respected the Orthodox Church. Nevertheless plague struck Cyprus at intervals and there were eventually rebellions against Turkish rule.

In the 19th century Britain became a superpower. In 1875 the Suez Canal opened and Britain was keen to protect the route to India. In 1878 the British were allowed to occupy and administer Cyprus (although Turkey was technically still sovereign). However in 1914 the Turks joined Germany's side in the First World War and Britain formally annexed Cyprus. In 1925 Cyprus was made a British Crown Colony.

However Greek Orthodox Cypriots now demanded enosis (union with Greece) and in 1931 riots took place. During the Second World War many Cypriots fought for the British. However when peace came Greek Orthodox Cypriots again demanded union with Greece. Turkish Cypriots, on the other hand wanted British rule to continue.

In 1955 a Greek Cypriot organisation called EOKA began a series of bombings in Cyprus. In 1958 a Turkish organisation called TMT was formed and intercommunal fighting began. Finally in 1960 Cyprus was granted independence. Archbishop Makarios was elected president.

However in 1963 the Greeks proposed changes to the constitution. The Turks refused and there was more intercommunal fighting. In 1964 the UN sent a peacekeeping force to Cyprus. However a solution was not found and in April 1974 hardline Greeks staged a coup. Archbishop Markarios was overthrown and fled abroad. As a result in July 1974 Turkish forces invaded Northern Cyprus. The island the became partitioned. Refugees from both sides crossed the border between the two parts of Cyprus. Meanwhile the hardliners fell from power and in December 1974 Archbishop Makarios returned from exile. He died in 1977.

In 1975 the Turkish section called itself the Turkish Federated State of Cyprus and it seemed that some sort of federation of the two parts might be possible. However in 1983 the Turkish section of Cyprus declared full independence. It called itself the Turkish Republic of North Cyprus.

The two sections of Cyprus remained separate and in 2004 the Southern (Greek) Republic of Cyprus joined the EU. Today the population of the whole of Cyprus is 1.1 million.

http://www.localhistories.org/cyprus.html


I think the most healthy solution is two separated independent nation both for Greek and Turkish peoples. The British existence in the island should be ended and the remaining lands should be shared between two sides in an equal way.

What's your opinion ?

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Last edited by Kemalist on Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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L Ron Cupboard
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Postby L Ron Cupboard » Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:57 am

Poll is missing some options.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:57 am

I'm given to understand they have quite nice weather. I'd consider a holiday there.



What are we meant to be discussing?
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Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f
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Postby Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f » Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:58 am

What's the OP's position?
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:00 am

Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f wrote:What's the OP's position?

He's one of those pro-Turkey chaps that have popped up, right? Given that, I imagine he wants Cyprus to form its own independent Christian monarchy.
Last edited by Ifreann on Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Fartsniffage
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Postby Fartsniffage » Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:00 am

Nature reserve. Kick all the people out and have it administered by the Andorrans.

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Kemalist
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Postby Kemalist » Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:01 am

Ifreann wrote:
Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f wrote:What's the OP's position?

He's one of those pro-Turkey chaps that have popped up, right? Given that, I imagine he wants Cyprus to form its own independent monarchy.


I don't think I'm pro-Turkey on this issue. If that was the case, I would support the annexation of the Northern part by Turkey. I want a fair solution for both sides that would end the conflict in the island, in a way that would not suit the interests of the imperialist nations.

Oh, and, what's it to do with '' monarchy '' ?
Last edited by Kemalist on Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:04 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Priory Academy USSR
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Postby Priory Academy USSR » Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:02 am

Give it to the Chinese, and tell them to pay off Greece's debt. *sarcasm but as good a solution as anyone's come up with*
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:04 am

Kemalist wrote:
Ifreann wrote:He's one of those pro-Turkey chaps that have popped up, right? Given that, I imagine he wants Cyprus to form its own independent monarchy.


I don't think I'm pro-Turkey on this issue. If that was the case, I would support the annexation of the Northern part by Turkey. I want a fair solution for both sides that would end the conflict in the island, in a way that would not suit the interests of the imperialist nations.

Oh, and, what's it to do with '' monarchy '' ?

It's a joke, dear.
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70 Ophiuchi
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Postby 70 Ophiuchi » Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:05 am

How about we just let the people who live there decide what they want to have happen (and make sure Turkey gets no say in the matter, we don't want them fucking it up like they did the last attempt)? If both sides want a unified state then they should work out how that will happen between them, if OTOH they'd rather be separate countries than that's their right.

Britain would probably be useful as a neutral third party so I don't see any pressing reason to kick them out.

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:08 am

Priory Academy USSR wrote:Give it to the Chinese, and tell them to pay off Greece's debt. *sarcasm but as good a solution as anyone's come up with*

Is Cyprus worth that much?
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East Ormania
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Postby East Ormania » Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:12 am

Cyprus should be independent and maintain its full territorial integrity, no anexations, in my opinion.
There are even some UN resolutions that fully prohibits anexations and having some sort of "colony".
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Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f
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Postby Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f » Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:14 am

Given that Northern Cyprus is home to British criminals and no extradition treaty with the UK along with a large UK military and UN presence on the Island as well as a sizable Greek population I think the best idea would be to remove the Turkish presence by annexing Northern Cyprus (for harbouring criminals) and removing the Greeks and turning their part into a massive island resort for wealthy Chinese to holiday on. The proceeds of that resort going to pay off the Greek national debt.

UK stays due to the strategic need of having a secondary Mediterranean staging/listening post in case the Italians get uppity again.
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Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f
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Postby Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f » Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:15 am

Priory Academy USSR wrote:Give it to the Chinese, and tell them to pay off Greece's debt. *sarcasm but as good a solution as anyone's come up with*


Argh! Ninja'd! :p
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Quintium
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Postby Quintium » Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:26 am

Either a two-state solution or a solution in which both parts are annexed by their respective nations.
You can't force these people together, or there's trouble. Greeks and Turks really do not like each other.
At any given moment there is an orthodoxy, a body of ideas which it is assumed that all right-thinking people will accept without question. It is not exactly forbidden to say this, that or the other, but it is 'not done' to say it, just as in mid-Victorian times it was 'not done' to mention trousers in the presence of a lady. Anyone who challenges the prevailing orthodoxy finds himself silenced with surprising effectiveness.
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Kemalist
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Postby Kemalist » Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:32 am

An interesting news from today

The unique Northern Cyprus Water Supply Project to be started

The construction of waterpipes, which will carry water from Turkey via underwater pipelines within the scope of “TRNC Water Supply Project” described as “the Project of the Century”, will start with a ceremony on Saturday.

The project, which started with laying the foundation of Alaköprü Dam in Turkey on 7 March 2011, has reached to construction stage to keep the water in dam. In the second part of the project, pipelines which will carry water underwater in Mediterranean will be installed.

It is emphasized that the project has importance because water will be carried with pipes underwater and this method will be implemented for the first time in the world.

As a result of the project targeting to carry 75 million cubic meter water in a year to TRNC from Turkey, it is planned that 35 cubic meter water will be used as drinking water and the left will be used in agriculture.

In the project planned to be completed in March 2014, 80 km water lines will be installed under 250 meter of sea surface. On Saturday, a ceramony will be arranged to lay the foundations of territorial buildings of water pipelines.
Last edited by Kemalist on Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Ifreann » Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:37 am

Kemalist wrote:An interesting news from today

The unique Northern Cyprus Water Supply Project to be started

The construction of waterpipes, which will carry water from Turkey via underwater pipelines within the scope of “TRNC Water Supply Project” described as “the Project of the Century”, will start with a ceremony on Saturday.

The project, which started with laying the foundation of Alaköprü Dam in Turkey on 7 March 2011, has reached to construction stage to keep the water in dam. In the second part of the project, pipelines which will carry water underwater in Mediterranean will be installed.

It is emphasized that the project has importance because water will be carried with pipes underwater and this method will be implemented for the first time in the world.

As a result of the project targeting to carry 75 million cubic meter water in a year to TRNC from Turkey, it is planned that 35 cubic meter water will be used as drinking water and the left will be used in agriculture.

In the project planned to be completed in March 2014, 80 km water lines will be installed under 250 meter of sea surface. On Saturday, a ceramony will be arranged to lay the foundations of territorial buildings of water pipelines.

What's interesting about this? The engineering challenges of laying 80km of pipe under 250m of water and using it to carry 75 million L of water?
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Kemalist
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Postby Kemalist » Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:42 am

Quintium wrote:Either a two-state solution or a solution in which both parts are annexed by their respective nations.
You can't force these people together, or there's trouble. Greeks and Turks really do not like each other.


Turkish Cypriots have voted for the unification in 2004 on the occasion of the Annan referendum, which the Greek Cypriot side rejected. So, the problem is beyond being based on ethnic tension between two sides, because the Greek side, in a fanatical way, does want the island to be considered fully '' Greek '', which they will have full power over the administration of the whole island.

If anybody regularly follows Eurovision, Cyprus has been taking part in the contest for decades, but have never sent a singer with a Turkish backgorund, or a song including at least a few Turkish words. If the Republic of Cyprus claims to cover the whole island, then why does it ignore a considerable population of the island and pretend as if the island is %99 Greek ?
Last edited by Kemalist on Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kemalist
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Postby Kemalist » Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:43 am

Ifreann wrote:
Kemalist wrote:An interesting news from today

The unique Northern Cyprus Water Supply Project to be started

The construction of waterpipes, which will carry water from Turkey via underwater pipelines within the scope of “TRNC Water Supply Project” described as “the Project of the Century”, will start with a ceremony on Saturday.

The project, which started with laying the foundation of Alaköprü Dam in Turkey on 7 March 2011, has reached to construction stage to keep the water in dam. In the second part of the project, pipelines which will carry water underwater in Mediterranean will be installed.

It is emphasized that the project has importance because water will be carried with pipes underwater and this method will be implemented for the first time in the world.

As a result of the project targeting to carry 75 million cubic meter water in a year to TRNC from Turkey, it is planned that 35 cubic meter water will be used as drinking water and the left will be used in agriculture.

In the project planned to be completed in March 2014, 80 km water lines will be installed under 250 meter of sea surface. On Saturday, a ceramony will be arranged to lay the foundations of territorial buildings of water pipelines.

What's interesting about this? The engineering challenges of laying 80km of pipe under 250m of water and using it to carry 75 million L of water?


It's implemented for the first time in the world as stated in the article. I've read it today so I wanted to share.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:46 am

Kemalist wrote:
Ifreann wrote:What's interesting about this? The engineering challenges of laying 80km of pipe under 250m of water and using it to carry 75 million L of water?


It's implemented for the first time in the world as stated in the article. I've read it today so I wanted to share.

Try Facebook.
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East Ormania
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Postby East Ormania » Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:48 am

Kemalist wrote:It's implemented for the first time in the world as stated in the article. I've read it today so I wanted to share.

So its just me, or is Turkey really feeding on the lack of water in some areas in Cyprus so that they can gain more supporters?
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Quintium
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Postby Quintium » Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:56 am

Kemalist wrote:Turkish Cypriots have voted for the unification in 2004 on the occasion of the Annan referendum, which the Greek Cypriot side rejected. So, the problem is beyond being based on ethnic tension between two sides, because the Greek side, in a fanatical way, does want the island to be considered fully '' Greek '', which they will have full power over the administration of the whole island.
[/quote]

That's them disliking each other. The Turkish navy has had exercises in Greek waters, to which the Greeks responded with anger.
How is the economic situation on the island? If the Turks are significantly poorer, it would be much easier to understand the reasoning.
Last edited by Quintium on Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
At any given moment there is an orthodoxy, a body of ideas which it is assumed that all right-thinking people will accept without question. It is not exactly forbidden to say this, that or the other, but it is 'not done' to say it, just as in mid-Victorian times it was 'not done' to mention trousers in the presence of a lady. Anyone who challenges the prevailing orthodoxy finds himself silenced with surprising effectiveness.
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East Ormania
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Postby East Ormania » Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:00 am

Quintium wrote:
Kemalist wrote:Turkish Cypriots have voted for the unification in 2004 on the occasion of the Annan referendum, which the Greek Cypriot side rejected. So, the problem is beyond being based on ethnic tension between two sides, because the Greek side, in a fanatical way, does want the island to be considered fully '' Greek '', which they will have full power over the administration of the whole island.


That's them disliking each other. The Turkish navy has had exercises in Greek waters, to which the Greeks responded with anger.
How is the economic situation on the island? If the Turks are significantly poorer, it would be much easier to understand the reasoning.

EU is having financial problems, and i heard that greece is having a crisis.
Last edited by East Ormania on Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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70 Ophiuchi
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Postby 70 Ophiuchi » Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:02 am

Kemalist wrote:Turkish Cypriots have voted for the unification in 2004 on the occasion of the Annan referendum, which the Greek Cypriot side rejected. So, the problem is beyond being based on ethnic tension between two sides, because the Greek side, in a fanatical way, does want the island to be considered fully '' Greek '', which they will have full power over the administration of the whole island.
The parts they didn't like were inserted at the request of Turkey and weren't wanted by Turkish Cypriots (namely Turkey would have the right to unilateral military intervention and be allowed to station troops in Cyprus).

Any agreement would need to be negotiated directly between Greek and Turkish Cypriots with Turkey and Greece not having a say in what gets written.

Kemalist wrote:If anybody regularly follows Eurovision, Cyprus has been taking part in the contest for decades, but have never sent a singer with a Turkish backgorund, or a song including at least a few Turkish words. If the Republic of Cyprus claims to cover the whole island, then why does it ignore a considerable population of the island and pretend as if the island is %99 Greek ?
Because the part they have actual control over isn't too far off that.

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Quintium
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Postby Quintium » Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:02 am

East Ormania wrote:EU is having financial problems, and i heard that greece is having a crisis.


Yes, but even Greece is not quite at a wealth level comparable to Turkey yet.
Their economy has taken a blow, but Turkey's has a much lower base value.
At any given moment there is an orthodoxy, a body of ideas which it is assumed that all right-thinking people will accept without question. It is not exactly forbidden to say this, that or the other, but it is 'not done' to say it, just as in mid-Victorian times it was 'not done' to mention trousers in the presence of a lady. Anyone who challenges the prevailing orthodoxy finds himself silenced with surprising effectiveness.
- George Orwell

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