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Suicide and You

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Alaje
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Founded: Oct 06, 2011
Ex-Nation

Suicide and You

Postby Alaje » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:21 pm

Hello, NSG after some converstion I had about suicide in the "Thread for former Fascists and Sympathizers", I thought I ought to make a thread for it. I know we've had suicide threads before, but what the hell. What do you all think of people commiting suicide, and when or if it is ok to commit suicide.

As I stated in the former Fascists thread....

You can't master life if you end it, suicide is the highest expression of cowardice.


That pretty much sums up my thoughts on the topic.

If you have had friends/family commit or almost commit suicide please share that exprience, also if you've attempted suicide.

I think this song is a perfect theme for this thread: "Don't Go And Put A Bullet In Your Head" - Lenny Kravitz
Last edited by Alaje on Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm a Flamingo
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Dislikes: Capitalism, Liberalism, Conservatism, Libertarianism, Abortion, Feminism, LGBT

I've been: Communist , Fascist

Economic Left/Right: -7.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.82

Excess of liberty, whether it lies in the state or individuals, seems only to pass into excess of slavery. - Plato

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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:23 pm

I can't condemn people for ending their lives. It's sad, yes, to me, when someone decides to go down that route. But we all have our stories, our sorrows.
Why, yes. Julie Newmar is best Catwoman. ฅ^•ﻌ•^ฅ
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Distruzio
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Distruzio » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:24 pm

Its immoral. It is a repudiation of the image of God.

That being said... I sympathize with those feeling as though there are no other choices available to them. Sometimes life fucking sucks and we get overwhelmed.

Ubermensch Paragon that defines Democracy
cultural tradition, communitarianism, vertical collectivism, personalism, market localism, federalism, toryism
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Samuraikoku
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Founded: May 13, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Samuraikoku » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:26 pm

The thought hasn't crossed my mind, but...

Seppuku

Not a bad way to end one's life.

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Ceannairceach
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Postby Ceannairceach » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:27 pm

It is what it is. I put no stock in it, but if someone sees it as alright, not my place to judge that. Suicide and attempting it is rather common in my family. I've contemplated it, my cousin attempted it not too long ago, among others.

@}-;-'---

"But who prays for Satan? Who in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most..." -Mark Twain

LEGALIZE

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Ceannairceach
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Ex-Nation

Postby Ceannairceach » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:28 pm

Samuraikoku wrote:The thought hasn't crossed my mind, but...

Seppuku

Not a bad way to end one's life.

Except for the disembowelment by blade. That's gotta fucking suck.

@}-;-'---

"But who prays for Satan? Who in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most..." -Mark Twain

LEGALIZE

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Hionntach
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Founded: Jun 28, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Hionntach » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:28 pm

Cowardice is an easy term to throw around for those not in the grips of suicidal ideation. It's a fucking terrifying thought to contemplate ones own death and the unknown beyond.

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The Blaatschapen
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Anarchy

Postby The Blaatschapen » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:29 pm

I believe that if one truly wants to stop living, then they should be free to do so.
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The Joseon Dynasty
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby The Joseon Dynasty » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:30 pm

I don't think suicide is something I understand enough to judge.
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Moving Forward Inc
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Ex-Nation

Postby Moving Forward Inc » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:31 pm

You can't master life if you end it, suicide is the highest expression of cowardice.

You can't master life anyway if you're going to die of old age.
Suicide is the highest expression of being realistic.
This test is biased and has stupid questions, but anyways:
Old (from when my nation was founded):
Economic Right: 6.50
Social Libertarian:-3.67
New (11 December 2012):
Economic Right: 2.50
Social Libertarian: -5.23
Be aware that I am only so near to the centre of the economic axe because this test associates being right-wing with crony capitalism, trickle down, and letting business be held to lower standards than individuals under law.

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Ostroeuropa
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:31 pm

There are a few examples of noble suicides. (Casey jones etc, suicide to save others.)
There are a few examples of suicide to avoid deadly illness.
The rest are a symptom of depression, usually. To claim these people killed themselves is slightly misleading, we would not claim someone suffering from a hallucinatory disease who picks up a gun and shot themselves died from killing themselves, we'd say the disease killed them. It's the same for depression.
Special Snowflake Syndrome
A malady affecting a significant portion of the world's population wherein the afflicted will demand special treatment, conduct themselves with a ludicrous, unfounded sense of entitlement, and generally make the lives of everyone around them that much more miserable.

The danger of this disease is that the sufferers rarely, if ever, know that they have contracted it, and continue about their merry way under the assumption that EVERYONE ELSE is the problem.

This condition, if left untreated, can radically alter the carrier's demeanor, to include any of the following: a complete devolution to child-like behavior, temper tantrums, and/or fits of narcissistic rage.

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Alaje
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Founded: Oct 06, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Alaje » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:34 pm

Distruzio wrote:Its immoral. It is a repudiation of the image of God.

That being said... I sympathize with those feeling as though there are no other choices available to them. Sometimes life fucking sucks and we get overwhelmed.


So for you suicide is almost the equivalent of killing God? That is an interesting take on it, I can respect that.

Ceannairceach wrote:It is what it is. I put no stock in it, but if someone sees it as alright, not my place to judge that. Suicide and attempting it is rather common in my family. I've contemplated it, my cousin attempted it not too long ago, among others.


How close have you gotten to committing it? I've been to the point of almost cutting my wrists, having the thought in your head is an odd one. I had the instrument of my "salvation" in hand, but I couldn't bring myself to do it. I didn't know if it made me smart, or just equally afraid of death as I was of life.
I'm a Flamingo
Likes: Corporatism, Market Socialism, Progressivism, Atheism, Centrism, Kemalism, Dirigisme

Dislikes: Capitalism, Liberalism, Conservatism, Libertarianism, Abortion, Feminism, LGBT

I've been: Communist , Fascist

Economic Left/Right: -7.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.82

Excess of liberty, whether it lies in the state or individuals, seems only to pass into excess of slavery. - Plato

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Samuraikoku
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Founded: May 13, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Samuraikoku » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:36 pm

Ceannairceach wrote:
Samuraikoku wrote:The thought hasn't crossed my mind, but...

Seppuku

Not a bad way to end one's life.

Except for the disembowelment by blade. That's gotta fucking suck.


In their view it was something they willingly chose to endure, if it would keep their honor. That outweighed the idea of the disembowelment suffering.

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Ceannairceach
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Postby Ceannairceach » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:37 pm

Alaje wrote:How close have you gotten to committing it? I've been to the point of almost cutting my wrists, having the thought in your head is an odd one. I had the instrument of my "salvation" in hand, but I couldn't bring myself to do it. I didn't know if it made me smart, or just equally afraid of death as I was of life.

Not very. Merely around the planning stages, and only as something of a formality. I've committed myself to living forever, and I've considered the possibility at some point in my life that perhaps eternal life does lie in "death", and thus considered ritualistic suicide to reach this eternal life. I stopped considering it, which was really as far as I got anyway, sometime before I totally abandoned my religious faith. I still hold it in reserve if I can't obtain immortality; I'd rather be sovereign over my own death than subject to the will of nature or "fate."

@}-;-'---

"But who prays for Satan? Who in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most..." -Mark Twain

LEGALIZE

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Horsefish
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Ex-Nation

Postby Horsefish » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:38 pm

Can't say I haven't contemplated it. The moods come and go, if I was an American and had access to firearms... Who can say?
Areopagitican wrote:I'm not an expert in the field of moron, but what I think he's saying is that if you have to have sex with Shakira (or another dirty ethnic), at the very least, it must be part of a threesome with a white woman. It's a sacrifice, but someone has to make it.

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Georgism wrote:
Geniasis wrote:Maybe if you showered every now and then...

That's what the Nazis said, we're not falling for that one again.

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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:38 pm

Ceannairceach wrote:It is what it is. I put no stock in it, but if someone sees it as alright, not my place to judge that. Suicide and attempting it is rather common in my family. I've contemplated it, my cousin attempted it not too long ago, among others.


I've tried twice. Once when I was 13 and again 4 years ago.

One of my mother's cousins or second cousins committed suicide last year. He hung himself in his apartment.
Why, yes. Julie Newmar is best Catwoman. ฅ^•ﻌ•^ฅ
TET's Mistress of Meows!
''Nanatsu of House no Tsuki, the first of her name, queen of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Cats.''- So says Iffy

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Ceannairceach
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Founded: Sep 05, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Ceannairceach » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:38 pm

Samuraikoku wrote:
Ceannairceach wrote:Except for the disembowelment by blade. That's gotta fucking suck.


In their view it was something they willingly chose to endure, if it would keep their honor. That outweighed the idea of the disembowelment suffering.

Doesn't make disemboweling yourself suck any less. Hangovers still suck, no matter how good the beer was.

@}-;-'---

"But who prays for Satan? Who in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most..." -Mark Twain

LEGALIZE

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Samuraikoku
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Founded: May 13, 2011
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Postby Samuraikoku » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:40 pm

Ceannairceach wrote:
Samuraikoku wrote:
In their view it was something they willingly chose to endure, if it would keep their honor. That outweighed the idea of the disembowelment suffering.

Doesn't make disemboweling yourself suck any less. Hangovers still suck, no matter how good the beer was.


I'm not contending it doesn't suck. I'm stating that they were probably aware of that, but they still chose to endure it.

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Alaje
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Founded: Oct 06, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Alaje » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:40 pm

Samuraikoku wrote:The thought hasn't crossed my mind, but...

Seppuku

Not a bad way to end one's life.


I've always admired the Samurai, suicide for the reasons the Samurai sometimes did it was stupid, but respectable. It was about honor.
I'm a Flamingo
Likes: Corporatism, Market Socialism, Progressivism, Atheism, Centrism, Kemalism, Dirigisme

Dislikes: Capitalism, Liberalism, Conservatism, Libertarianism, Abortion, Feminism, LGBT

I've been: Communist , Fascist

Economic Left/Right: -7.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.82

Excess of liberty, whether it lies in the state or individuals, seems only to pass into excess of slavery. - Plato

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Rov
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Founded: Jul 27, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Rov » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:41 pm

Personally, if you want to? None of my business. If it was someone I knew, I'd probably advise against it and maybe try to get them some help, but in the end it's not my decision.

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Ceannairceach
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Postby Ceannairceach » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:41 pm

Samuraikoku wrote:
Ceannairceach wrote:Doesn't make disemboweling yourself suck any less. Hangovers still suck, no matter how good the beer was.


I'm not contending it doesn't suck. I'm stating that they were probably aware of that, but they still chose to endure it.

I contend that the reason the Meiji won out over the Tokugawa is because suicide by gun is a whole lot better than suicide by huge bloody knife. :p

@}-;-'---

"But who prays for Satan? Who in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most..." -Mark Twain

LEGALIZE

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Samuraikoku
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Founded: May 13, 2011
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Postby Samuraikoku » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:41 pm

Alaje wrote:
Samuraikoku wrote:The thought hasn't crossed my mind, but...

Seppuku

Not a bad way to end one's life.


I've always admired the Samurai, suicide for the reasons the Samurai sometimes did it was stupid, but respectable. It was about honor.


Stupid according to our own eyes. It probably made sense in their society, even if we may not want to live as if it was back then.

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Alaje
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Postby Alaje » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:44 pm

Ceannairceach wrote:
Samuraikoku wrote:
I'm not contending it doesn't suck. I'm stating that they were probably aware of that, but they still chose to endure it.

I contend that the reason the Meiji won out over the Tokugawa is because suicide by gun is a whole lot better than suicide by huge bloody knife. :p

:rofl:
I'm a Flamingo
Likes: Corporatism, Market Socialism, Progressivism, Atheism, Centrism, Kemalism, Dirigisme

Dislikes: Capitalism, Liberalism, Conservatism, Libertarianism, Abortion, Feminism, LGBT

I've been: Communist , Fascist

Economic Left/Right: -7.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.82

Excess of liberty, whether it lies in the state or individuals, seems only to pass into excess of slavery. - Plato

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The USOT
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Postby The USOT » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:44 pm

Samuraikoku wrote:
Ceannairceach wrote:Doesn't make disemboweling yourself suck any less. Hangovers still suck, no matter how good the beer was.


I'm not contending it doesn't suck. I'm stating that they were probably aware of that, but they still chose to endure it.

That and efforts were made to shorten the duration of the pain.
The book Hagakure talks about the concept of (and I apologise if I have hte name wrong...) a Kayashi, who would be an honourable person or great freind/companion to the individual commiting seppuku. Their job was to observe for when the act of seppuku had been commited, and then behead the individual to end their pain once they had gone through with the act of killing themselves.
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Contrary to the propaganda, we live in probably the least materialistic culture in history. If we cared about the things of the world, we would treat them quite differently. We would be concerned with their materiality. We would be interested in their beginnings and their ends, before and after they left our grasp.

Peter Timmerman, “Defending Materialism"

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Samuraikoku
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Founded: May 13, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Samuraikoku » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:44 pm

Ceannairceach wrote:
Samuraikoku wrote:
I'm not contending it doesn't suck. I'm stating that they were probably aware of that, but they still chose to endure it.

I contend that the reason the Meiji won out over the Tokugawa is because suicide by gun is a whole lot better than suicide by huge bloody knife. :p


But the last Shôgun didn't commit suicide at the Bakumatsu (end of the Shôgunate era). He resigned and went to live in retirement. :unsure:

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