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Scottish independence?

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Anglolands
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Scottish independence?

Postby Anglolands » Wed May 30, 2012 6:20 am

Hello Everybody!

I've seen today in the news that Scottish National Party's campaign for independence called 'Yes, Scotland' has been launched by the Scottish Prime Minister Alex Salmond.

Well i wonder if there are some Scottish or British people here who have some arguments for or against the Scottish independence?

I've been living in Scotland for 10 months already and I personally doubt whether it is the right path for Scotland to follow.
Taking into consideration the economic situation of Scotland with its huge public sector, I doubt if it would benefit from going on its own.

Does anybody want to add something? ;)

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Divair
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Postby Divair » Wed May 30, 2012 6:21 am

If the majority of Scots wanted it, I'd support it. It probably would end up hurting both the UK and Scotland, though, so until a referendum is held, I'm against it.
Last edited by Divair on Wed May 30, 2012 6:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Wed May 30, 2012 6:22 am

I see no point to it.
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Demphor
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Postby Demphor » Wed May 30, 2012 6:24 am

How many of these bloody threads are there?

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Hibernion
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Postby Hibernion » Wed May 30, 2012 6:25 am

I am American, but I have Scottish in me, so i think Scotland should gain independence
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Greater Alaska
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Postby Greater Alaska » Wed May 30, 2012 6:26 am

It would be a mistake for Scotland to leave the union, at the moment it looks like the majority of Scots are against independence anyway.

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Anglolands
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Postby Anglolands » Wed May 30, 2012 6:26 am

Divair wrote:If the majority of Scots wanted it, I'd support it. It probably would end up hurting both the UK and Scotland, though.

Well the recent survey said that 57% of Scots oppose the independence.
However I have such impression that even though some people who did not have any clear view on it, are now accepting such possibility because it is so widespread in the media and daily life.

I dont really get that.....

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Romanov Island
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Postby Romanov Island » Wed May 30, 2012 6:27 am

I want to support the rights of all peoples to self-determination--but (and I ask the same question of the Parti Quebecois here in NAm) is it practical? Dunno...

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Tubbsalot
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Postby Tubbsalot » Wed May 30, 2012 6:27 am

I don't understand why anyone cares. Independence wouldn't change anything at all.
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Khaucasus
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Postby Khaucasus » Wed May 30, 2012 6:32 am

if the majority wants independence...Scottish Republic must be proclaimed
PEACE


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Forster Keys
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Postby Forster Keys » Wed May 30, 2012 6:33 am

If the Scots want it.
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Chulainan
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Postby Chulainan » Wed May 30, 2012 6:33 am

Tubbsalot wrote:I don't understand why anyone cares. Independence wouldn't change anything at all.

Y'know if more people listened to you, we wouldn't have one of these threads ruffly every two months or so.
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Lancaster of Wessex
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Postby Lancaster of Wessex » Wed May 30, 2012 6:33 am

Tubbsalot wrote:I don't understand why anyone cares. Independence wouldn't change anything at all.


Uh, how bout their finances? And their share of the UK public debt? They'd be financially crippled day 1 of their independence.

It's idealistic, it's nice, but practical? No. Not by far.

EDIT: That being said, if the majority votes for it, go for it - good luck...they'll need it.
Last edited by Lancaster of Wessex on Wed May 30, 2012 6:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Machiavellionia
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Postby Machiavellionia » Wed May 30, 2012 6:33 am

Tubbsalot wrote:I don't understand why anyone cares. Independence wouldn't change anything at all.


This. Once Scots understand the benefits for themselves and the rest of the Union and realise that 'independence' is largely an arbitrary formality, I think everyone will be much happier. So, if they really want independence, then they should have it (Hell, I'm a democrat at heart). But they must consider that the Union is best for everyone.
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Greater Alaska
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Postby Greater Alaska » Wed May 30, 2012 6:36 am

Khaucasus wrote:if the majority wants independence...Scottish Republic must be proclaimed

Not a republic, they said even if they get granted independence, they will be under the same monarch.

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Anglolands
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Postby Anglolands » Wed May 30, 2012 6:38 am

Greater Alaska wrote:
Khaucasus wrote:if the majority wants independence...Scottish Republic must be proclaimed

Not a republic, they said even if they get granted independence, they will be under the same monarch.


Yeah i agree that the monarch will be still present.....which is another ridiculous idea to be honest....

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Frozen
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Postby Frozen » Wed May 30, 2012 6:38 am

I would be way over the word count if I went into every single thought I have about this so I'll try to bullet point.
I am a liberal Nationalist, SNP voter and Glaswegian Student. I do however see the negatives and positives despite being pro-independence.
- I believe every country should rule itself, Unions of countries never work. I believe this for states in America also, countries will claim favoritism and victimization, so taking away these Scapegoats will be good for personal Identity and motivation for everyone in Scotland.
- A lot of Scottish citizens have ingrained Anglo-phobia, (hate/fear of England) I believe this would increase if we became inde4pendant but I would like to see this tackled BEFORE the referendum.
- Having two separate nations sharing borders and entering trade agreements would be beneficial to both economies. Independence would allow both countries to "solve their own shit without worrying about the neighbors'
- No government can understand each and every citizen of their country, a fact that is only grossly magnified by the UK system. example: conservatives win 1 seat in Scotland and still end up governing Scotland. The conservative party is notorious for hammering Scotland and the same is true now.
- Any oil found in the north sea will be Scottish, providing economic benefits.
- Russia has already been quoted to be interested in trade with an independent Scotland. This is a benefit enough, especially when you consider (that if history is telling anything) America and Russia will compete for this trade placing independent Scotland in a Seller's market.
Negatives
- Anglo phobia increase
- Weakened Military shortly after independence
- Salmond seems to want to promote "tartan Brave heart Scotland" rather than focusing on building a new image of Scotland that shatters stereotypes.
- IRA endorsement. IRA would support our independence, but their support would be counter-intuitive since they are classed as a terrorist group
I am Scottish, not British. I do not recognize a British monarch or court.
I am a Scottish teenager. My political ideals are Nationalism and Isolationism [SNP]. I am obsessed with wolves and steak

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Frozen
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Postby Frozen » Wed May 30, 2012 6:42 am

also think we should drop the monarchy, if we separate from the UK why do we still recognize the UK monarch?
and if it's a formality then there shouldn't be so much opposition.
I think last poll had 63% support.
I believe that a reparation system to cover our share of UK debt could be introduced, so long as we're not talking Versailles standard reparations.
I am Scottish, not British. I do not recognize a British monarch or court.
I am a Scottish teenager. My political ideals are Nationalism and Isolationism [SNP]. I am obsessed with wolves and steak

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Lancaster of Wessex
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Postby Lancaster of Wessex » Wed May 30, 2012 6:43 am

Frozen wrote:also think we should drop the monarchy, if we separate from the UK why do we still recognize the UK monarch?
and if it's a formality then there shouldn't be so much opposition.
I think last poll had 63% support.
I believe that a reparation system to cover our share of UK debt could be introduced, so long as we're not talking Versailles standard reparations.


She's Queen of Scotland every inch she is Queen of England...her ancestry includes James I, who was James VI of Scotland prior to taking the English crown.

EDIT: Unless you're a Jacobite. ;P
Last edited by Lancaster of Wessex on Wed May 30, 2012 6:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Mad hatters in jeans
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Postby Mad hatters in jeans » Wed May 30, 2012 6:43 am


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Lambrinisia
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Postby Lambrinisia » Wed May 30, 2012 6:44 am

If it wants independence so much, why not hold referendum sooner rather than later than in 2014?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-s ... s-18080527

If Scotland wants independence, then by all means ask the population. But I believe that you should do something about it rather than moan for ages about it and then procrastinate when you get your way.
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West Gaul
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Postby West Gaul » Wed May 30, 2012 6:44 am

If Scotland was free it's economy would probably fall apart within the first few years.

If they were smart they would stay with the rest of the UK.
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Lancaster of Wessex
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Postby Lancaster of Wessex » Wed May 30, 2012 6:47 am

West Gaul wrote:If Scotland was free it's economy would probably fall apart within the first few years.

If they were smart they would stay with the rest of the UK.


I don't know if it'd fall apart per se, but as I noted, it'd face enormous financial difficulties, I believe, from day 1.

To those who say "what's the big deal?" I have NO clue how they come to that frankly ridiculous opinion.
Lancaster.
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The Realm of God
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Postby The Realm of God » Wed May 30, 2012 6:47 am

I am Scottish and I am strongly opposed to the SNP. To be honest we work better as a team than as bickering neighbours. If you seperated I dont think I could get Scottish citizenship (even though its the land of my birth) I've lived in England for the best part of a decade.

If you are going to cede keep A monarchy invite the Jacobite Franz of Bavaria to rule over us.

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BURNINATI0N
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Postby BURNINATI0N » Wed May 30, 2012 6:48 am

Whether the masses living in Scotland controlled by a small elite in the UK or controlled by a small elite living in Scotland, they will still be living under the thumb of a government they have little say in or control over. The difference is semantic, not real.
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