Catholic school suspends student for promoting modesty

[Lakeland]

We this is lol-worthy. A high school student handed out a speech emphasizing inner beauty and against degrading oneself with overly revealing cloths. The principle had an issue with this and when he went ahead with it he was suspended. I guess the irony of her action was lost on the principle. I'm always annoyed by these freedom of speech issues at schools due to the fact that the argument is invariable made that, kids don't really have free speech at school. But of course this denies them the best opportunity to actually learn about activism and political speech.

The article:
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/201 ... g-modesty/

The part of the speech that got him suspended.

The people this message concerns are the young women of this school, and of the world. In particular, it concerns the silent ones, the intelligent ones, the ones that don’t talk about people behind their backs, the ones that guys don’t flock to in droves, the ones that don’t dress in revealing clothing, the ones who would love to be in love, and the ones that are continually disappointed in their appearance because the only thing they have to compare themselves to are the women that have been put on pedestals by our society. This message also concerns those of you who may consider yourselves the so called “opposite” to the demographic I just described. The ones who do dress in revealing clothing, and the ones who try to fit in with the crowd.

And while I was reading more about I came across a feminist's take on it.
http://www.thestar.com/opinion/editoria ... g-clothing

You can see how biased this article is compared to the other.

There’s a kind of man universally unpopular with women. He is Controlling Man.

But wait it gets better.

Really, Martin Luther could take lessons from this guy. Who taught him this nonsense?

Females from age 2 to 92 speak as one: We do not care to hear male opinions on our clothes unless it’s “You look fabulous in that. Radiant. Wow.”

So this goes from an article about a kid getting suspended to a rant on men while she claims to speak for all women. Including 2 year olds. I think the irony of the writer's article was also lost on her.

I'm not sure what I'm more amused by, the fact that such a simple letter got a kid suspended. Or the extraordinarily biased coverage of it. So what do you think G? Should this kid have gotten suspended, and is the criticism against him justified, or even accurate?

[Tubbsalot]

Er well it's pretty obvious this student was trying to insult 'non-modest' students and make them feel bad, otherwise they wouldn't have said those people were stupid and people talked about them behind their backs. You'd expect a religious school to be perfectly fine with their students' happiness being destroyed for the sake of promoting Traditional Christian Values, but not in this case. Good on them.

A high school student handed out a speech emphasizing inner beauty and against degrading oneself with overly revealing cloths. The principle had an issue with this and when he went ahead with it he was suspended. I guess the irony of her action was lost on the principle.

It's definitely lost on me. How is that meant to be ironic?

[Tubbsalot]

Oh, and thanks for throwing feminism into this thread as well. Christ, we'll need a megathread before too long.

[Aaraya]

What the heck?? That guy did nothing wrong. He is allowed to do this by constituton of the US.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

^^^^PROOF^^^^

[Tubbsalot]

What the heck?? That guy did nothing wrong. He is allowed to do this by constituton of the US.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

^^^^PROOF^^^^

Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech, therefore students can't be suspended for distributing offensive and harassing materials.

Yes. Okay.

[Saint Jade IV]

What the heck?? That guy did nothing wrong. He is allowed to do this by constituton of the US.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

^^^^PROOF^^^^

Even I know that the Supreme Court has ruled in several cases that students' constitutional rights can be limited at school

And such a speech is very likely to cause undue disruption to the learning process.

[Idaho Conservatives]

What the heck?? That guy did nothing wrong. He is allowed to do this by constituton of the US.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

^^^^PROOF^^^^

Catholic schools are generally private, and private schools tend to have waivers for things like this.

[Lakeland]

Er well it's pretty obvious this student was trying to insult 'non-modest' students and make them feel bad, otherwise they wouldn't have said those people were stupid and people talked about them behind their backs. You'd expect a religious school to be perfectly fine with their students' happiness being destroyed for the sake of promoting Traditional Christian Values, but not in this case. Good on them.

A high school student handed out a speech emphasizing inner beauty and against degrading oneself with overly revealing cloths. The principle had an issue with this and when he went ahead with it he was suspended. I guess the irony of her action was lost on the principle.

It's definitely lost on me. How is that meant to be ironic?

To people that look to be offended, maybe.

She's a principle of a Catholic high school (yah know, religious, modest, etc), suspending a student for promoting modesty. It's like an Imam suspending a student for passing out fliers encouraging students to pray more.

[Lakeland]

Oh, and thanks for throwing feminism into this thread as well. Christ, we'll need a megathread before too long.

Good.

[Euronion]

What the heck?? That guy did nothing wrong. He is allowed to do this by constituton of the US.

^^^^PROOF^^^^

Catholic schools are generally private, and private schools tend to have waivers for things like this.

except when it has something to do with Affirmative Action or Birth Control

[Luziyca]

Well, you see, students have no rights whatsoever under the American Constitution, until then, the principals have a right to do anything AND everything to the students that s/he wants, and parents must appeal, since all rights activate when you turn 18.

[Tubbsalot]

To people that look to be offended, maybe.

This goes out to all the good people out there - the intelligent, the kind, the virtuous, the charitable. To all the people who love and care for their fellow man. To everyone who knows injustice, and wants it gone.

You should also listen up if you're black.

Yeah, no. That's straight up offensive and insulting.

She's a principle of a Catholic high school (yah know, religious, modest, etc), suspending a student for promoting modesty. It's like an Imam suspending a student for passing out fliers encouraging students to pray more.

I guess that's sort of ironic? In the same vein as a guard in a forced labour camp smuggling food to the inmates?

[Geilinor]

Isn't modesty supposed to be part of their beliefs?

[Euronion]

I think that the student is wrong though. I mean if I came to school with a clown hat, a backwards shirt and two opposite socks or something, I would like someone to tell me that I look ridiculous so (a) I can go home and change and (b) I will not come to school dressed that way again. I would like people to tell me what they think I look like good and bad. It is important to any school goer that you look normal and by normal I mean what is "cool," and if you do not look "cool" you are more often than not shunned and ostracized. As a High School male, I would like to attract the opposite gender, and I am sure that many high schoolers male and female want to attract the opposite gender so I think that a constant wave of optimism is just a bad thing because you are just lying to them.

[New Kesheru]

Im Catholic; still am. Went to Catholic school and enjoyed it. But I lost a school election cause I ticked off a teacher. Then again this happened to a buddy in a public school. Im in college and Im as old as my teacher (roughly 28) and when I corrected her on a spelling error she made on a test which cost everyone in our class a percentage she screamed at me. I guess its just authority figures in general who hate being talked back to or beaten-to-the-punch by people they see as below them. Plus if that priciple wrote something like that student they would have had the PTA on their ass faster than Charlie Sheen on Coke(Cola).

[Aaraya]

Well, you see, students have no rights whatsoever under the American Constitution, until then, the principals have a right to do anything AND everything to the students that s/he wants, and parents must appeal, since all rights activate when you turn 18.

Huh?? They do have constitutional rights! They are citizens of the US and therefore have constitutional rights by law.

[New Kesheru]

The kid has a right, let him pass it around and let it be read!

[Nationstatelandsville]

Well, you see, students have no rights whatsoever under the American Constitution, until then, the principals have a right to do anything AND everything to the students that s/he wants, and parents must appeal, since all rights activate when you turn 18.

Huh?? They do have constitutional rights! They are citizens of the US and therefore have constitutional rights by law.

In school, freedom of speech is forfeit.

I would need to read the fliers, but I'm guessing they were inflammatory, which is bad anywhere.

[Kryozerkia]

Constitution? Wrong country. We don't have that, we have the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Oh and yes, it is a public Catholic high school... As for the student, he originally wrote this speech to be orally presented. He had given to the principal for review and she gave it back to him with criticisms of it. She had explained that he would get to present if her recommended changes were made. Instead of making the changes, the student ignored her entirely and went behind her back with the speech itself and gave out copies.

If you're curious, you can read the whole speech here.

Was she right to suspend him? Depends on whether or not you consider the text to be disruptive to the learning environment, especially when such a text is overly judgmental in a time when the province is working to reduce bullying.

[Nationstatelandsville]

Constitution? Wrong country. We don't have that, we have the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Oh and yes, it is a public Catholic high school... As for the student, he originally wrote this speech to be orally presented. He had given to the principal for review and she gave it back to him with criticisms of it. She had explained that he would get to present if her recommended changes were made. Instead of making the changes, the student ignored her entirely and went behind her back with the speech itself and gave out copies.

If you're curious, you can read the whole speech here.

Oh. It's Canada.

I can stop caring now.

But no, really, that's just a stupid reaction on her part. She's lucky the principal would even let her present it.

[Trotskylvania]

Constitution? Wrong country. We don't have that, we have the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Oh and yes, it is a public Catholic high school... As for the student, he originally wrote this speech to be orally presented. He had given to the principal for review and she gave it back to him with criticisms of it. She had explained that he would get to present if her recommended changes were made. Instead of making the changes, the student ignored her entirely and went behind her back with the speech itself and gave out copies.

If you're curious, you can read the whole speech here.

Was she right to suspend him? Depends on whether or not you consider the text to be disruptive to the learning environment, especially when such a text is overly judgmental in a time when the province is working to reduce bullying.

This seems to be a sensible post. Naturally, it will be forgotten.

[Nationstatelandsville]

Constitution? Wrong country. We don't have that, we have the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Oh and yes, it is a public Catholic high school... As for the student, he originally wrote this speech to be orally presented. He had given to the principal for review and she gave it back to him with criticisms of it. She had explained that he would get to present if her recommended changes were made. Instead of making the changes, the student ignored her entirely and went behind her back with the speech itself and gave out copies.

If you're curious, you can read the whole speech here.

Was she right to suspend him? Depends on whether or not you consider the text to be disruptive to the learning environment, especially when such a text is overly judgmental in a time when the province is working to reduce bullying.

This seems to be a sensible post. Naturally, it will be forgotten.

Sense was made illegal long ago. We prefer baseless rhetoric and semantics, thank you very much.

[New Heathera]

We this is lol-worthy. A high school student handed out a speech emphasizing inner beauty and against degrading oneself with overly revealing cloths. The principle had an issue with this and when he went ahead with it he was suspended. I guess the irony of her action was lost on the principle. I'm always annoyed by these freedom of speech issues at schools due to the fact that the argument is invariable made that, kids don't really have free speech at school. But of course this denies them the best opportunity to actually learn about activism and political speech.

The article:
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/201 ... g-modesty/

The part of the speech that got him suspended.

The people this message concerns are the young women of this school, and of the world. In particular, it concerns the silent ones, the intelligent ones, the ones that don’t talk about people behind their backs, the ones that guys don’t flock to in droves, the ones that don’t dress in revealing clothing, the ones who would love to be in love, and the ones that are continually disappointed in their appearance because the only thing they have to compare themselves to are the women that have been put on pedestals by our society. This message also concerns those of you who may consider yourselves the so called “opposite” to the demographic I just described. The ones who do dress in revealing clothing, and the ones who try to fit in with the crowd.

And while I was reading more about I came across a feminist's take on it.
http://www.thestar.com/opinion/editoria ... g-clothing

You can see how biased this article is compared to the other.

There’s a kind of man universally unpopular with women. He is Controlling Man.

But wait it gets better.

Really, Martin Luther could take lessons from this guy. Who taught him this nonsense?

Females from age 2 to 92 speak as one: We do not care to hear male opinions on our clothes unless it’s “You look fabulous in that. Radiant. Wow.”

So this goes from an article about a kid getting suspended to a rant on men while she claims to speak for all women. Including 2 year olds. I think the irony of the writer's article was also lost on her.

I'm not sure what I'm more amused by, the fact that such a simple letter got a kid suspended. Or the extraordinarily biased coverage of it. So what do you think G? Should this kid have gotten suspended, and is the criticism against him justified, or even accurate?

That's actually topped the outrageousness factor of the kid who was banned from flying his nation's flag on his bike because an anti-american student thought it was offensive. I don't get the school system.

[Katganistan]

He was told the portion where he was judgmental about both the girls who don't get dates and attention (implication: you feel like and society views you as losers), and the girls who dress in revealing ways (you get attention, but for the wrong reasons), was not appropriate and to change it. Such a message, given with the authority of the school behind it, is NOT appropriate as it would be disruptive, pretty much trolling all the women in the school. So he went ahead and distributed it in leaflet form without permission -- and you can't pass out brochures, fliers, et cetera without permission. He got suspended for defying the principal and handing out what she viewed as a speech that was, in part, offensive.

You may not like it, but a speech in which people are made to feel bad about who they are and how they choose to dress is not appropriate and rightly not supported by the authorities on whose property it was distributed.

[Mike the Progressive]

Pssh, execute her.