Your Nation's Main Battle Tank (No Mechs) [Part 3]

[Purpelia]

That's what I was assuming. I'm all for this project, though I'd probably just drop the 192mm to something like 140mm, do the aforementioned loading up on AA and APS, and keep the 80mms because they'll probably fuck up just about anything anyway.

I was considering dropping it to 155 or something. But than I saw that Lyras had a 190mm gun and god dam it I thought, I ain't going to be outgunned.

Why do you have stupid designations that make me think you're using 80x6200mm ammo?

Because I find the whole L something horribly messed up. It's easier to track the length of the gun when it's in exact mm than when it's given in a number I have to calculate.

what are your stats so far? There is a lot of stuff spread out in arbitrary posts but it's too hard to find them all.

Length: 10.24m
Length (gun forward): 12.4m
Width: 3.8m (4.2m with counter-slope armor)
Mass: hopefully about 200T empty.

Front Armor: 2m of modern composites. NOT 2000mm RHA equivalent but 2000mm of modern composite insanity.

Well... asking again. Would 1500mm or so (maybe 2000mm if I go all out on it) of modern composite armor + RHA on top + an APS be enough to defeat any NS grade anti tank weapon that is not a top attack missile including the Lyran 190mm gun?

Excepting Saph's hilarious 152mm rounds, I don't think I've seen many NS weapon that does close to or more than 2500mm RHa. Maybe some of the bigger 140 ETC guns with APFSDS, rroankep especially. So, you'd be relying on your countermeasures. It would be massively defended against 120, 125, 120ETC and maybe conventional 140s, however. They may not penetrate.
A 190 though, would definitely be big enough to blow through and probably gut it, assuming it gets inside the APS and ERA. Using the 8-10x diameter benchmark, you're looking at close to 1600-2000mm RHa penetration from the main charge.

A 190mm round would have hilarious drag though, so if it's lobbing HEAT at you, it'd be a leisurely (and obviously large) target for any soft or hardkill system. I'd fear a 50mm APFSDS fired from a '190mm' gun, however... Lyras would probably have every right to call the thing Gungnir.

Er... My armor is actually 2m thick. And made out of composites. It's not 2000mm RHA.
My guess is that the front armor alone will weigh in at something idiotic like 30-40 tons.

[Indeos]

That's what I was assuming. I'm all for this project, though I'd probably just drop the 192mm to something like 140mm, do the aforementioned loading up on AA and APS, and keep the 80mms because they'll probably fuck up just about anything anyway.

I was considering dropping it to 155 or something. But than I saw that Lyras had a 190mm gun and god dam it I thought, I ain't going to be outgunned.

Why do you have stupid designations that make me think you're using 80x6200mm ammo?

Because I find the whole L something horribly messed up. It's easier to track the length of the gun when it's in exact mm than when it's given in a number I have to calculate.

That's silly. A lower size will let you carry more rounds without the silly amounts of overkill a ~200mm gun carries.

[Purpelia]

I was considering dropping it to 155 or something. But than I saw that Lyras had a 190mm gun and god dam it I thought, I ain't going to be outgunned.


Because I find the whole L something horribly messed up. It's easier to track the length of the gun when it's in exact mm than when it's given in a number I have to calculate.

That's silly. A lower size will let you carry more rounds without the silly amounts of overkill a ~200mm gun carries.

Ok. I will put that on the drawing board for when I finish the hull, crew compartment and stuff like that. The weapons are still a draft version for now anyway.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

If you have 2000mm of composite armour, your RHAe is several metres thick, easy.

[Purpelia]

If you have 2000mm of composite armour, your RHAe is several metres thick, easy.

On a side note. Do you think my estimate for something like 20-30 tons on the front armor mass is about right?

And what do you think of the size of the space for the driver? (1400mm long)
And what do you think of the height of the space the crew members are in? (1240mm high)
Are they too much? In particular I am leaning toward dropping the height to around 900mm or 1m or so.


And generally, do you think I could get this to weight at <= 200 tons? (crew, ammo and fuel not included)

[United Districts of 1]

Whats a good platform for very tight urban combat and a cold environment?

[Samozaryadnyastan]

You, my good sir, require the BMPT.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMPT

Also, purp, weight considerations are beyond me, I'm afraid

[United Districts of 1]

You, my good sir, require the BMPT.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMPT

Also, purp, weight considerations are beyond me, I'm afraid

Do you think there's a profile line-up of that?

[Lubyak]

You, my good sir, require the BMPT.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMPT

Also, purp, weight considerations are beyond me, I'm afraid

Do you think there's a profile line-up of that?

Like this?

[United Districts of 1]

Do you think there's a profile line-up of that?

Like this?

May I modify this?

[Lubyak]

Like this?

May I modify this?

Not mine.

[Lyras]

For reference, if you folks are interested. Noted some folks peeking at my 180mm gun on the LY6A1 Werewolf, so thought I'd put it here for you.





Main Armament
Since the adoption of the ETC 140mm LY410 on the LY4 series, and with the LY7 still fielding a dual-breech (120/140mm) ETC main gun, the ETC 155mm LY406, while still more powerful than the weapons fielded by its lighter cousins, was no longer looking as decisively and spectacularly so as it had prior to the LY4's -A2 upgrade. As such, in keeping with Lyran doctrine concerning full-spectrum overmatch, the decision was made (although not unanimously) to shift from 155mm to 180mm.
The new weapon, a conceptual successor to the LY410, was dubbed, somewhat unoriginally, the LY412, and was in many respects a larger clone of the LY410, featuring a number of systems that, while not compatible (due to the very different bore sizes and ensuing divergence in internal and external dimensions), are very obviously of a common lineage.
As a consequence of the adoption of the newer primary weapon system, the Werewolf's turret has been considerably redesigned, in no small part due to the necessity of installing an entirely new autoloader to handle the 180mm rounds. A frustrating reality of this fact is the reality that, despite this redesign, and measures which freed some additional stowage capacity, the larger rounds meant that a reduction in the ammunition load out (40 to 24) was inevitable. With the shift to the 180mm main gun, ammunition is no longer stored in one piece, but propellant and projectile are now stored seperately, with the former in the turret and the latter in the turret. This adds a considerable complexity to the autoloader, but allows the turret's profile to be lowered, and dramatically lowers likelihood of a fatal ammunition cook-off. Ninevah Ironworks, of the Dictatorial Republic of Sumer, were consulted on the new autoloader design, with their experience in the Type 998-X16C and Type 1000-X19A being of particular relevance, especially given the Lyran adoption of license-built variants of the An-1200 180x1000mm ammunition. The propellant charges are held within individual armoured containers. The entire system is completely electric, but there are manual backups if required. As would be expected, the entirety of the bustle system features blowout panels.
There is no longer the previously existing 45% commonality of turret systems with the LY4-series turret. While some systems remain common, they are primarily smaller, software or electronics related, or common across the Lyran battlespace spectrum.
The electro-thermal chemical propellant ignition system, using an adaptive plasma-based flashboard large area emitter (FLARE), was selected, forming the core of a weapon which would, at its conclusion, be quite different from that of its forebears, with the exception of the aforementioned LY410. As on the LY4A2, no effort was spared in the drive to ensure optimum lethality, with the additional point of note being that the Werewolf is a good 31% heavier again than the latest marks of the Wolfhound, and has a far lesser design emphasis on mobility. For the Werewolf, armour and firepower are very strongly predominant, with mobility very much a secondary concern, unlike the Wolfhound, where manoeuverability was, while not dominant, a major consideration.
As with every Lyran main gun for the past twenty years, the LY412 is autofrettaged and stress-hardened to increase durability over extended periods of firing.
As a consequence of these measures, the LY6 can burst-fire five rounds in twenty seconds, with a sustained rate of fire of 10 rounds per minute thereafter. Both of those rate-of-fire figures place the Werewolf very firmly in the top tier for AFVs, and when this point is measured up against the 180mm projectile size of the LY412, the lethality of the platform becomes all the more apparent.
The recoil system has shifted from 600mm to 650mm, so as to handle the increased recoil forces from the shift from 155mm to 180mm, but the adjustment had been already factored into the design process for the autoloader, and this point does not affect the rate of fire adversely. It did require a number of modifications to the turret schematics, however, not that most end-users would have any great interest in this point.
The chromium-plated barrel is a little over 9m long and is fitted with a slotted muzzle brake which yields increased muzzle velocity whilst reducing the degree of muzzle flash. The wedge-type breech block is integrated with an exchangeable primer magazine fitted with a standard conveyer assembly for automatic (but adjustable and controllable) primer transportation, loading and unloading.
The shell loading system is driven by brushless electric servo motors supplied by Lyran Arms' Highcairn Manufacturing Zone. The automatic shell loading system has air-forced ram and Cromwell-backed automatic digital control, ammunition supply management and autonomous target-assessed fuze setting.
Redesigns of the magazine system have greatly improved combat-theatre turn-around times. In part designed to offset the somewhat smaller ammunition capacity, once the main gun magazine is depleted, the entire turret magazine can be removed, and a fresh one inserted, a process not dissimilar to changing magazines on a rifle, only on a larger scale. This does require the presence of a dedicated service vehicle, but takes less than 4 minutes. Should such a vehicle be unavailable, the system can be reloaded manually/conventionally.




As it happens, there is another version of this gun in the works, which will add considerably more power to it. But that's another story

[United Districts of 1]

KMV-12 Chimera
The KMV-12 is based on the chassis of the well-known T-72 MBT which is used in large numbers by the Russian Army and has been manufactured under license by many other countries. The rear of the driver's compartment, at the front of the vehicle, has been raised, providing greater internal volume. A new mount is equipped with two 30 mm 2A42 dual-feed cannons with a cyclic rate of fire of up to 600 rds/min. A total of 850 rounds of ready use ammunition can be carried. The cannon can fire a wide range of ammunition types including: High Explosive - Tracer (HE-T), Armour-piercing discarding sabot (APDS), High Explosive Fragmentation (HE-FRAG) and Armor-Piercing - Tracer (AP-T). A 7.62 mm machine gun is mounted coaxially with the main armament. A total of four launchers for the Ataka-T anti-tank guided weapon (ATGW) which can fire various types of warhead, are mounted on either side of the main armament. These include a tandem HEAT warhead to defeat targets fitted with explosive reactive armour. To enable targets to be engaged under day and night conditions when the KMV-12 is stationary or moving, a computerized fire-control system is fitted. It uses proven elements from those fitted to the T-90S series MBT. The commander is equipped with a panoramic sight B07-K1, the gunner has a B07-K2 sight with optical and thermal channels and a LRF. The two operators for the AG-17D each have an “Agat-MR” day/night sight. As an option, the KMV-12 can be fitted with mine-clearing devices such as the KMT-7 or KMT-8. T-72 tanks can be converted into KMV-12.

OoC: Please don't rip my line art apart.