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CoH 49 Host Bid: Cotdelapoms and Polar Islandstates

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CoH 49 Host Bid: Cotdelapoms and Polar Islandstates

Postby Polar Islandstates » Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:22 pm

COTDELAPOMS AND POLAR ISLANDSTATES HOST BID FOR CUP OF HARMONY XLIX

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The FCF and FPIFA, working in partnership, humbly put forward this host bid for the hosting of the Forty-Ninth Cup of Harmony.




EXPERIENCE
Cotdelapoms has its own extensive history of hosting major events, having most notably hosted a smooth World Cup of Hockey. It has hosted the first and third World Junior Hockey Championships as well, along with the Coupe Pomme d’Or, the Rushmore Six Nations competition for rugby, the last two Champions’ Hockey Leagues and the first Rushmori Copa de las Príncipes. Cotdelapoms is internationally renowned for having some of the most thorough sports leagues (that are actually scorinated) in the multiverse. The Cotdelapomais Curling Championship is the world’s foremost curling competition. Cotdelapoms has also been a highly successful WA delegate of Rushmore.

Polar Islandstates would be the junior member in this hosting partnership, though has already shown himself to be a dependable scorinator. After a successful debut with a series of friendlies, he hosted the Sokhorosk Linii Amateur Shield and a six stage cycling event. The cycling event did suffer from early teething problems, mainly due to the scorinator throwing out results that were difficult to format, but all problems were communicated well with the community. Recently, he has hosted the Cuppet, a successful 40 team event that he conceived and created, hosting it successfully before the current WC cycle. He also shown his reliability and workrate by scorinating the CdlP regularly for the nations of Rushmore, for whom he is the current cartographer, and is undertaking the first in a regular international domestic rugby tournament.



ENTRY AND FORMAT
Both hosts would rather an inclusive CoH than an exclusive one, and as such any nation that has posted two solid RPs over the course of the qualifying campaign will be invited to attend the CoH. When it comes to deciding what counts as a solid RP, quality will be the main factor. Anyone can copy a table, work out a schedule, and post it double spaced to make an RP look bigger, we’re looking for creativity and things that the hosts haven’t told you already. Rosters will not count towards this. Each user can only have one nation attend, so in the event of a single user having two eligible teams, they will be invited to choose which one accepts the invitation.

We are aiming for a tournament of 32, 40, or 48 teams, though 36, 44 and 45 will be considered if we are stuck. We would rather wait until positively responded invitations reach a preferred number, and if numbers of acceptance are slowing down prior to a number like 40 for example, we reserve the right to make an announcement stating 40 as the new limit and wait for the 40th entry rather than waiting until we reach 48. If stuck between usable numbers and forced to cut entries, we would start with those who accepted their invitations most recently.

With 32 teams we’d have eight groups of four with two progressing, with 40 teams it would be eight groups of five with two progressing, and with 48 teams it would be eight groups of six with two progressing. With 36 it would be nine groups of four with the group winners and five best runners-up progressing and the final four runners-up facing a play-in tie, and with 45 teams it would be the same but with groups of five, with 44 teams it would be eleven groups of four with the winners progressing and ten best runners-up facing a play-in tie. From there it would be straight knockout to the final.

Tie-breakers in the group stages would be first of all head-to-heads, then goal difference, then number of wins, then goals scored. We appreciate that a single round robin leaves the possibility for teams to still be tied after that, so as its an RP-based tournament we would propose that 'RP bonus acquired so far' is the final tie-breaker.

As a yardstick, at the time of writing there were 66 nations meeting eligibility, with a further 13 nations with one RP. This is out of 106 nations who posted rosters.



SCORINATION AND RP BONUS
Will we be using xkoranate 0.3.2, a scorinator both hosts are familiar with, using the SQIS formula and xkoranate style modifiers, for which the full range of +/-5 will be used. If you really want to change your modifier mid-tournament, we will accommodate that as long as you make it clear in your RP so as to be fair to your opponents. Cutoffs will be at _______ [preferably the same time? We can work something out timewise.)

RP bonus will be cumulative throughout the whole tournament, and each MD’s worth of RPing will be worth a maximum of 3 KPB points. Multiple RPs on one MD will be counted as one, with the exception of rosters, which will be scored as a separate RP whenever they get posted. RPs will be graded on quality and creativity more than they are on length. Copypasting tables, schedules and scores won’t be rewarded, and a dry run through list of predictions won’t score highly. Grammar and spelling are necessary, but so long as we don’t have to sit and work out what you’re trying to say for too long, mistakes won’t be punished. Here is the first paragraph of the ‘Entry and Format’ section of this bid with the punctuation taken out – this is the kind of thing that you would get scored down for.
both hosts would rather an inclusive coh than an exclusive one and as such any nation that has posted two solid rps over the course of the qualifying campaign will be invited to attend the coh when it comes to deciding what counts as a solid rp quality will be the main factor anyone can copy a table work out a schedule and post it double spaced to make an rp look bigger were looking for creativity and things that the hosts havent told you already rosters will not count towards this each user can only have one nation attend so in the event of a single user having two eligible teams they will be invited to choose which one accepts the invitation



AND FINALLY
Both hosts are confident that they would host an enjoyable tournament, and can also offer the additional bonus of full IC hosting/stadium details should their bid be successful, as well as an IC draw on IRC if participants would be interested.

Have at it!
Last edited by Polar Islandstates on Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:22 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Postby Saugeais » Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:30 pm

I fully support this, as it looks like one solid bid.
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Postby Astograth » Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:53 pm

I fully support this bid on principle, but have a couple of questions: first, which tie-breakers would be used in the group stage; secondly, should the number of eligible nations exceed 48, would it be on a first-come first-served basis or otherwise?

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Postby Andossa Se Mitrin Vega » Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:46 am

Astograth wrote:I fully support this bid on principle, but have a couple of questions: first, which tie-breakers would be used in the group stage; secondly, should the number of eligible nations exceed 48, would it be on a first-come first-served basis or otherwise?

Why the one side per user limit? While it would be highly unlikely both The Archregimancy and the Holy Empire or Jeruselem and Jeru FC could wind up qualifying for the CoH. Would it be fair to exclude either in this extreme case? Extreme may not be a fair word as a rule concerning puppets should be universal no matter their rank of who the user is.
Last edited by Andossa Se Mitrin Vega on Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Kernansquillec » Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:54 am

I am sure Cotdelapoms and Polar Islandstates will do a good, reliable job hosting the tournament. However as said before I don't quite see why their should be a one nation/user limit considering that will effet the ranking of the nation that isn't chosen unfairly in my view. Also as Astograph said could we have the list of tiebreakers please. But overal it's a good solid bid.
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Postby The Kytler Peninsulae » Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:42 am

My only concern is that the non-degrading RP bonus takes some time to accumulate, which is a particular concern if groups are small. However, I applaud the explicit mention of the RP bonus value.

Also, on a tiny point of pedantry, 36 is nine groups of four (not eight, but that was probably an editing error, and I do that), while in the 44-team tournament it would be the top ten runners up (not four) who would be involved in play-in games (for five remaining last-16 spots).

As a near-certain participant in this competition, I would be highly confident I would not face any significant issues in it. That's enough for me to approve of this bid.
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Postby Vilita » Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:02 am

Kernansquillec wrote:I am sure Cotdelapoms and Polar Islandstates will do a good, reliable job hosting the tournament. However as said before I don't quite see why their should be a one nation/user limit considering that will effet the ranking of the nation that isn't chosen unfairly in my view. Also as Astograph said could we have the list of tiebreakers please. But overal it's a good solid bid.



Probably because they appear to have limited the entries to 48; while there are already ~70 nations eligible.
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Postby Kernansquillec » Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:49 am

Vilita wrote:
Kernansquillec wrote:I am sure Cotdelapoms and Polar Islandstates will do a good, reliable job hosting the tournament. However as said before I don't quite see why their should be a one nation/user limit considering that will effet the ranking of the nation that isn't chosen unfairly in my view. Also as Astograph said could we have the list of tiebreakers please. But overal it's a good solid bid.



Probably because they appear to have limited the entries to 48; while there are already ~70 nations eligible.

Yes but 30 of those 70 will be at the World Cup. It should just fit.
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Postby Polar Islandstates » Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:08 pm

Astograth wrote:I fully support this bid on principle, but have a couple of questions: first, which tie-breakers would be used in the group stage; secondly, should the number of eligible nations exceed 48, would it be on a first-come first-served basis or otherwise?


Tie-breakers: Good question, that probably should have been in the bid. Oversight on my part and I'd need to clarify this with my apple-y friend before you can count on this list, but first of all would be head-to-heads, then goal difference, then number of wins, then goals scored. I appreciate a single round robin leaves the possibility for teams to still be tied after that, so as its an RP-based tournament I would propose that RP bonus acquired so far is the final tie-breaker.

Cutting nations: Also a good question. Once the teams who have qualified for the WC proper are taken off our list of eligible teams, I'd expect to see a number in the 40s by the end of the tournament. Should that number exceed 48 I suppose a logical extension of the way we'd cut entries to reach a usable number would dictate that we'd take teams on a first come first served basis. Though, I have to say, I think the chances of receiving 48+ "yes please" responses in a short amount of time is pretty slim. If memory serves, neither of the two CoHs that have happened whilst I've been taking part have had anything like 48 teams, and anyone who finds themselves missing out because of this rule will probably have had to have been away for a reasonable amount of time.
The True Valhallan Federation of Polar Islandstates - Pop. 51,500,000
Capital: Franz Josef City - Demonym: Valhallan (Polarian) - Trigramme: PIS
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Champions: WC67, CR XIX, CR XVIII, CR XV, CR X, CR VIII, DBC56, DBC20, RLWC11, RLWC10 Runners-Up: WC66, WC65, CR VI, DBC29, DBC55, WCoH18
Third: WC70, WC68, WC57, CR XII, DBC27 Fourth: WC56, CR XXII, RLWC13, RLWC9, WCoH17
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Postby Polar Islandstates » Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:14 pm

Andossa Se Mitrin Vega wrote:Why the one side per user limit? While it would be highly unlikely both The Archregimancy and the Holy Empire or Jeruselem and Jeru FC could wind up qualifying for the CoH. Would it be fair to exclude either in this extreme case? Extreme may not be a fair word as a rule concerning puppets should be universal no matter their rank of who the user is.


Kernansquillec wrote:I am sure Cotdelapoms and Polar Islandstates will do a good, reliable job hosting the tournament. However as said before I don't quite see why their should be a one nation/user limit considering that will effet the ranking of the nation that isn't chosen unfairly in my view.


As Vilita pointed out, this was mainly to enable us to be as inclusive of people that would take part as possible. You do have a point with the maths though, and if there is a strong enough feeling against this in the community to harm the bid, the apple-y one and I could have a chat about it.
The True Valhallan Federation of Polar Islandstates - Pop. 51,500,000
Capital: Franz Josef City - Demonym: Valhallan (Polarian) - Trigramme: PIS
sportnyheter.vu - Ides of March Cup
Champions: WC67, CR XIX, CR XVIII, CR XV, CR X, CR VIII, DBC56, DBC20, RLWC11, RLWC10 Runners-Up: WC66, WC65, CR VI, DBC29, DBC55, WCoH18
Third: WC70, WC68, WC57, CR XII, DBC27 Fourth: WC56, CR XXII, RLWC13, RLWC9, WCoH17
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Postby Polar Islandstates » Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:18 pm

The Kytler Peninsulae wrote:My only concern is that the non-degrading RP bonus takes some time to accumulate, which is a particular concern if groups are small. However, I applaud the explicit mention of the RP bonus value.

Also, on a tiny point of pedantry, 36 is nine groups of four (not eight, but that was probably an editing error, and I do that), while in the 44-team tournament it would be the top ten runners up (not four) who would be involved in play-in games (for five remaining last-16 spots).

As a near-certain participant in this competition, I would be highly confident I would not face any significant issues in it. That's enough for me to approve of this bid.


Whilst I do see your point about accumulation, a nation that rosters and RPs before MD1 could have an additional six KPB points before the first kick has even been played, and that's quite sizeable given the likely ranks of some of the participants. I stress that we will be looking for reasons to award bonus, not for reasons to take it away.

As for the maths, :palm: , OP edited to reflect these changes, and to include the tie-breaker information.
The True Valhallan Federation of Polar Islandstates - Pop. 51,500,000
Capital: Franz Josef City - Demonym: Valhallan (Polarian) - Trigramme: PIS
sportnyheter.vu - Ides of March Cup
Champions: WC67, CR XIX, CR XVIII, CR XV, CR X, CR VIII, DBC56, DBC20, RLWC11, RLWC10 Runners-Up: WC66, WC65, CR VI, DBC29, DBC55, WCoH18
Third: WC70, WC68, WC57, CR XII, DBC27 Fourth: WC56, CR XXII, RLWC13, RLWC9, WCoH17
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Postby The Kiaser Colonies » Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:49 pm

I fully support this.
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Postby Eastfield Lodge » Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:23 pm

In the rare case where both teams controlled by one person are eligible, you could have them choose one nation to sign properly and then sign the other provisionally if you need to make more workable numbers.
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Postby Polar Islandstates » Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:41 pm

That's a great suggestion, thanks. Could work well for all involved, that.
The True Valhallan Federation of Polar Islandstates - Pop. 51,500,000
Capital: Franz Josef City - Demonym: Valhallan (Polarian) - Trigramme: PIS
sportnyheter.vu - Ides of March Cup
Champions: WC67, CR XIX, CR XVIII, CR XV, CR X, CR VIII, DBC56, DBC20, RLWC11, RLWC10 Runners-Up: WC66, WC65, CR VI, DBC29, DBC55, WCoH18
Third: WC70, WC68, WC57, CR XII, DBC27 Fourth: WC56, CR XXII, RLWC13, RLWC9, WCoH17
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Postby Vilita » Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:33 pm

I don't know if there are any competing bids, or if this is the only one, but I think the proposal for more than 32 nations just seems a bit - big.

I may be sounding a bit of a Fogie here but the CoH shouldn't be bigger than the World Cup itself, its supposed to be a smaller, secondary competition, I mean, a no kidding competition for the nations that actually participated in the World Cup Qualifying and simply missed out.

I know by looking that there have been some CoH's recently that were bigger than the World Cup, but in the interest of preserving the 'harmony' of the cup of harmony, I hope with fingers crossed that we can keep the capped at 32 with preference to the most active nations (opposed to the ones who accept the invitation first) if at all possible :)

Ideally, the CoH is a tournament smaller than the finals such that it finishes before the WC final and does not distract from its importance.
Last edited by Vilita on Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby The Kytler Peninsulae » Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:23 am

I think the fact that we do look at such big CoH competitions these days is a wonderful tribute to the number of active nations these days - but I think Vilita makes a valid case for shrinking the competition a little bit. It's something I'm not sure I am for or against, and any limitation should always be by activity (e.g. raising the RP threshold for entry), but it is worthy of discussion, if not for this time, then for CoH 50.
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Postby Vilita » Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:13 am

If anything, restricting the field a bit should increase activity a bit as a nation won't just skate through, p ost two rps on md17 and expect that they will be invited to the CoH. Jolt useD to have a nice post count feature in each thread so it was easy to see a quick glance of the number of nations who have posted, I don't sese that here so don't know exactly how many would be invited at this point, but the thought of a second drawn out qualifying stage with a huge number of nations, that wasn't really what i remember thcoh being about, is all I'm saying. If there are truly 50 nations deserving, then so be it!
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Postby The Kiaser Colonies » Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:53 am

no, no, no, no, no. Limiting the competition to 30 or so is not a good idea. The are 20 groups and from each at least 2 that really should be here. That is 40 at least. Now do the maths. 40-30= 10. That means 10 nations that should could and would be there won't. It's not right.
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Postby Astograth » Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:59 am

The Kiaser Colonies wrote:no, no, no, no, no. Limiting the competition to 30 or so is not a good idea. The are 20 groups and from each at least 2 that really should be here. That is 40 at least. Now do the maths. 40-30= 10. That means 10 nations that should could and would be there won't. It's not right.

Do you have any kind of basis to claim that at least two from each World Cup qualifying group deserve to be at the Cup of Harmony?

I honestly would not be opposed to limiting the number of participants to 32, and it was indeed what Civil Citizenry and I initially set out to do for Cup of Harmony 48; given that in the end there were 35 competing nations who qualified regardless of their RP quality, of which at least half a dozen didn't roleplay at all, I do believe it's possible without harming anyone who truly deserves to take part.

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Postby Sorthern Northland » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:31 am

The Kiaser Colonies wrote:The are 20 groups and from each at least 2 that really should be here.


If at least two non-World Cup qualifying nations from each group have shown consistency and quality of deserving to be in the Cup of Harmony, then by all means us. Often however, that isn't the case.

Now then, for our prospective hosts...

Polar Islandstates wrote:RP bonus will be cumulative throughout the whole tournament, and each MD’s worth of RPing will be worth a maximum of 3 KPB points.


That's a large bonus to be handing out. Given the large max points number it'll necessitate, do you not feel it'll reduce the value of the rankings and increase randomness more than rewarding good RPing?
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