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Feazanthia
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Feazanthia » Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:50 am

Actually the Morningstar fleet is of decent size, they do have colonies, I know at least one of those colonies has a trade infrastructure in place, and I'm reasonably certain they can defend against any ol' kinetic attack.
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Clamparapa
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Ex-Nation

Postby Clamparapa » Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:57 am

Feazanthia wrote:Actually the Morningstar fleet is of decent size, they do have colonies, I know at least one of those colonies has a trade infrastructure in place, and I'm reasonably certain they can defend against any ol' kinetic attack.


My mistake then. But I would imagine the Coalition is able to defend against an invasion force, just as my nation is also able to defend itself against invasion. Not only is our entire nation battle hardened and experienced in fighting ground campaigns, we also have a very efficient fleet that can evacuate in a very short amount of time.
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The Fedral Union
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Postby The Fedral Union » Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:01 am

Hmm I think anyone could "defend" or try to defend against an invasion but if your opponent is smart enough they can screw you over pretty well.
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Morningstar Coalition
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Ex-Nation

Postby Morningstar Coalition » Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:02 pm

Auman wrote:I'd imagine third world FT nations like Telros, the Morningstar Coalition and the Systems Alliance couldn't really defend against planetary assaults. Mostly because they either don't have functioning governments, fleshed out planetary infrastructure... Or planets.


What about all the various planet-bound nations that go dark all the time in the galaxy? You know, those formerly powerful nations that suddenly no one has heard from or seen in years?

But to address your point... We don't need to defend against full-scale planetary assaults. Our strategy is not to hold territory, but to preserve lives. To this end, we will hold our ground long enough to evacuate a colony's population. Once our people are safe, we have no need to defend a planet.
In any case, planetary infrastructure is overrated. There are very few things a planet can provide that cannot be replicated aboard suitably designed ships using the right technology.




Feazanthia wrote:Actually the Morningstar fleet is of decent size, they do have colonies, I know at least one of those colonies has a trade infrastructure in place, and I'm reasonably certain they can defend against any ol' kinetic attack.


Depends mostly on the mass and velocity of the attack.

Natural rogue asteroid or comet? Absolutely. If it's headed towards a fleet, just move the fleet. If headed towards a planet we have a colony on, direct a combat fleet to direct enough firepower onto the intruder to render to dust.
If it's slow enough, we'll just divert Harvester ships to dismantle and process the intruder.

RKVs are another matter altogether. High enough mass and velocity, and no amount of conventional firepower will destroy the object before it impacts. Your options are limited by how much time you have between detection and impact. If we spotted this thing coming at us from out-system (via gravitic mass sensors, or if the intruder is using some kind of FTL drive that gives off superluminal emissions) then we can make plans. If it's aimed at a fleet, move the fleet.
If it's aimed at a planet, things get trickier. We can attempt to divert it's course with gravity mines, but good luck.
We can try to tow an asteroid into it's path, and hope that the energy delivered on impact will vaporize both objects.
We can attempt to open a wormhole in the intruder's path and send it somewhere else, but this means sacrificing a ship to do so.
Of course, if we have enough time we're more likely to just evacuate the target and move on.

The real ugly starts happening when you have RKVs fired from short range. Either fired from uber-powerful mass drivers, or fired through a wormhole, or something else that prevents us detecting the object until it's already deep in the target system.
Even in a best case scenario, for every second till impact, we only have an extra tenth of a second advance warning from sensor drones equipped with mass sensors and FTL comms. If there's ten seconds to impact, we'll only have eleven seconds to do anything at all.
Last edited by Morningstar Coalition on Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Derscon
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Postby Derscon » Sat Apr 23, 2011 1:50 pm

Morningstar Coalition wrote:What about all the various planet-bound nations that go dark all the time in the galaxy? You know, those formerly powerful nations that suddenly no one has heard from or seen in years?


What you did there...

There are very few things a planet can provide that cannot be replicated aboard suitably designed ships using the right technology.


Well, there's the kicker; it's a stupidly-high level of tech required to pull something like that off, an amount of wanking not all players may be comfortable with.
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Noders
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Noders » Sat Apr 23, 2011 1:54 pm

http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=108848
hey I made this FT store front and was wondering if any one could help me?
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Saxon Germany
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Postby Saxon Germany » Sat Apr 23, 2011 1:59 pm

Noders wrote:http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=108848
hey I made this FT store front and was wondering if any one could help me?


Well, a description and stats for your product would be a good idea.
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Noders
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Noders » Sat Apr 23, 2011 2:02 pm

Saxon Germany wrote:
Noders wrote:http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=108848
hey I made this FT store front and was wondering if any one could help me?


Well, a description and stats for your product would be a good idea.

Ha ha I know that but i was talking about what would be good stats and what not.
Socialdemokraterne wrote:Noders: Only the finest books and pizza. And books about pizza. Not so much their book-flavored pizzas, though.

Me=Noders God of pissing you off
Parkus= God Of Sex and Cool and lots of Cigs
Menasha= God of pissing Noders off
Tsarsgrad= The god of Rp's (right) :P
Koribaann=The god of GodModding
Spreewerke=God of the AK
Indeos=God of you know what just a bloody god
Hamittia=Thinks he's a god
Dorlania=Slave of false god
Prem=False Goddess
Xarithis= God Of World Domination
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Saxon Germany
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Postby Saxon Germany » Sat Apr 23, 2011 2:08 pm

Noders wrote:
Saxon Germany wrote:
Well, a description and stats for your product would be a good idea.

Ha ha I know that but i was talking about what would be good stats and what not.


Well that's where you start to run afoul. You need to consider where these ships are being used, account for racial variation in your customers, (i.e., you could get ewoks or something buying off you), identify what their purpose is going to be, etc etc.

Most of this is defined by the description, since tbf, stats don't matter quite as much as they do in MT.
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New Amerik
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Father Knows Best State

Postby New Amerik » Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:17 pm

Noders wrote:
Saxon Germany wrote:
Well, a description and stats for your product would be a good idea.

Ha ha I know that but i was talking about what would be good stats and what not.


Hmmm...Statwise, you have generally a lot of leeway given FT, but as the poster above me said, description is key. I mean, sizing, weaponry, crew quarters, any important stats you'd find on a ship are the least you should put in, but as Saxon Germany stated, you could pretty much fit loads of statistic in if you wanted to - it is FT after all.
Another thing to consider is what market you wish to sell to OOC, and then tailor descriptions and stats for that group. And of course, description is always key.
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Noders
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Noders » Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:20 pm

New Amerik wrote:
Noders wrote:Ha ha I know that but i was talking about what would be good stats and what not.


Hmmm...Statwise, you have generally a lot of leeway given FT, but as the poster above me said, description is key. I mean, sizing, weaponry, crew quarters, any important stats you'd find on a ship are the least you should put in, but as Saxon Germany stated, you could pretty much fit loads of statistic in if you wanted to - it is FT after all.
Another thing to consider is what market you wish to sell to OOC, and then tailor descriptions and stats for that group. And of course, description is always key.

er well the ships are based of Sup Com so there robotic.....
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Me=Noders God of pissing you off
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Menasha= God of pissing Noders off
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Michael Kenmore
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Ex-Nation

Postby Michael Kenmore » Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:29 pm

Noders wrote:
New Amerik wrote:
Hmmm...Statwise, you have generally a lot of leeway given FT, but as the poster above me said, description is key. I mean, sizing, weaponry, crew quarters, any important stats you'd find on a ship are the least you should put in, but as Saxon Germany stated, you could pretty much fit loads of statistic in if you wanted to - it is FT after all.
Another thing to consider is what market you wish to sell to OOC, and then tailor descriptions and stats for that group. And of course, description is always key.

er well the ships are based of Sup Com so there robotic.....

If you're trying to sell a product, promote the good sides. Say: Features the latest, snazziest, ultra-whambang-positronic-gravo-hopper robotic technology! (Don't actually, but you get the point.)
Say that it's a low, low price for limited time. Say that it's got enormous pwnage power. And then fix up some shiny stats like length, cargo capacity, crew, etc.
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Noders
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Noders » Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:40 pm

Michael Kenmore wrote:
Noders wrote:er well the ships are based of Sup Com so there robotic.....

If you're trying to sell a product, promote the good sides. Say: Features the latest, snazziest, ultra-whambang-positronic-gravo-hopper robotic technology! (Don't actually, but you get the point.)
Say that it's a low, low price for limited time. Say that it's got enormous pwnage power. And then fix up some shiny stats like length, cargo capacity, crew, etc.

Thanks :)
Socialdemokraterne wrote:Noders: Only the finest books and pizza. And books about pizza. Not so much their book-flavored pizzas, though.

Me=Noders God of pissing you off
Parkus= God Of Sex and Cool and lots of Cigs
Menasha= God of pissing Noders off
Tsarsgrad= The god of Rp's (right) :P
Koribaann=The god of GodModding
Spreewerke=God of the AK
Indeos=God of you know what just a bloody god
Hamittia=Thinks he's a god
Dorlania=Slave of false god
Prem=False Goddess
Xarithis= God Of World Domination
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Noders
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Noders » Sat Apr 23, 2011 8:52 pm

Socialdemokraterne wrote:Noders: Only the finest books and pizza. And books about pizza. Not so much their book-flavored pizzas, though.

Me=Noders God of pissing you off
Parkus= God Of Sex and Cool and lots of Cigs
Menasha= God of pissing Noders off
Tsarsgrad= The god of Rp's (right) :P
Koribaann=The god of GodModding
Spreewerke=God of the AK
Indeos=God of you know what just a bloody god
Hamittia=Thinks he's a god
Dorlania=Slave of false god
Prem=False Goddess
Xarithis= God Of World Domination
"Ruthless and efficient in the bedroom as well as on the battlefield, Britannia is the living emblem of strength, persistence, and dignity and Really Fucking Good Line Art.

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Feazanthia
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Feazanthia » Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:12 pm

Derscon wrote:
There are very few things a planet can provide that cannot be replicated aboard suitably designed ships using the right technology.


Well, there's the kicker; it's a stupidly-high level of tech required to pull something like that off, an amount of wanking not all players may be comfortable with.


Untrue. I've stated earlier that fusion power grants us access to easily-maintained fusion torches, which result in near-100% material recycling. Torches break down matter into its component atoms, which can then be collected and sorted through means available to us today. Given that the extra-planetary resources of a single system (even discounting those found in a stellar body) can sustain a civilization for millenia, raw material (save for exceedingly rare compounds, most of which will most likely be plotonium) becomes a non-issue.

Molecular manufacturing requires a heavy investment in nanotechnology, yes, but even without it there's really nothing that requires a planet to construct. Hell, with a ship big enough you can have the full industrial sector of a city tucked away in a corner. Indeed, with things like gravity manipulation and inertial compensators (which many people have despite it being unnecessary, silly space operas), it becomes easier. Hell, there's no reason that building a car with modern assembly technology would be any harder on a dedicated factory ship than on a planet, aside from finding a market for a car on a mobile fleet.
Last edited by Feazanthia on Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Telvira
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Telvira » Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:16 pm

Feazanthia wrote:Hell, there's no reason that building a car with modern assembly technology would be any harder on a dedicated factory ship than on a planet, aside from finding a market for a car on a mobile fleet.

I would be first in line for a personal space Ferrari.
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Noders
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Founded: Aug 20, 2009
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Noders » Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:54 pm

Socialdemokraterne wrote:Noders: Only the finest books and pizza. And books about pizza. Not so much their book-flavored pizzas, though.

Me=Noders God of pissing you off
Parkus= God Of Sex and Cool and lots of Cigs
Menasha= God of pissing Noders off
Tsarsgrad= The god of Rp's (right) :P
Koribaann=The god of GodModding
Spreewerke=God of the AK
Indeos=God of you know what just a bloody god
Hamittia=Thinks he's a god
Dorlania=Slave of false god
Prem=False Goddess
Xarithis= God Of World Domination
"Ruthless and efficient in the bedroom as well as on the battlefield, Britannia is the living emblem of strength, persistence, and dignity and Really Fucking Good Line Art.

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Balrogga
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Balrogga » Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:22 pm



Are you sure that is the right link?

It appears to be surface ships/sub/torpedo for an MT navy and not any FT ships.
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Axis Nova
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Ex-Nation

Postby Axis Nova » Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:13 am

Derscon wrote:Well, there's the kicker; it's a stupidly-high level of tech required to pull something like that off, an amount of wanking not all players may be comfortable with.


Wrong. You can extract just about any real life element needed from asteroids and comets and so forth, including water, which can be used to produce oxygen and fuel. This is feasible with 1980s era technology, so seeing someone say it can't be done centuries later is a huge laugh.

Of course, how EASILY it can be done depends on your tech level, but really, if you have interstellar travel this should be a pretty basic thing.

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The Fedral Union
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Postby The Fedral Union » Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:18 am

Must be a bitch for population growth though.
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"[01:35] <@Estainia> The battle fleet over New Earth certainly helps. -We fucking dare you- isn't subtle after all."

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Rethan
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Corporate Police State

Postby Rethan » Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:23 am

The Fedral Union wrote:Must be a bitch for population growth though.

I know Morningstar has that issue, myself not so much. Rethast are short on numbers anyway, and those which aren't active and doing something are stuck in stasis chambers, so space isn't an issue until my population breaches the double digit millions.

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Derscon
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Postby Derscon » Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:30 am

Axis Nova wrote:Of course, how EASILY it can be done depends on your tech level, but really, if you have interstellar travel this should be a pretty basic thing.


Well, when you're deciding what you're going to do with your nation, how you're going to find shit, etc, then ease is always a factor. We, now, can do a lot of the things in sci-fi, but it isn't easy nor feasible considering all of the other factors that would go into pulling said thing off. If you're going for flavor, then the ease-factor isn't necessary, but it's only unnecessary if flavor is your only concern.

@Feaz: I do keep forgetting about fusion torches <_<

On the whole, though, how efficient is asteroid mining, really? They have a tendency to bump into each other a lot, they're all small and spread out, many of the resources on them could be found in higher densities on a planet or a moon, etc. Admittedly, this is a question, not a charge (I don't actually know the answer), but it just intuitively strikes me as utterly wasteful.
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Arthropoda Ingens
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Anarchy

Postby Arthropoda Ingens » Sun Apr 24, 2011 8:11 am

They don't really bump into each other all that often, really. Size matters to some extend, of course, but consider that the world production of steel in 2010 was around 1.3 billion tonnes - that sounds a lot, but ultimately, it's a ball with a diameter of less than 700 metres. Even if you require a total usable mass in the, I dunno... Trillion tonne per year range, and you're not into elemental transformation, so you're only using, say, 'bout 0.1% of a 'roids total mass (Assuming you're particularly picky), you don't need more than a total 'roid volume equivalent to a 80- or 90 km thing (I'm assuming an average density of circa 3000 kg/ m^3, should be a match). Can be split into several smaller ones, obviously. Now consider that for example our native 'roid belt in the solar system has a total mass of about three quintillion tonnes...

That's a lot of wood, really.

Not that using planetary resources is somehow a bad thing, of course. But asteroids and comets are a perfectly viable source of resources, too.
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Michael Kenmore
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Ex-Nation

Postby Michael Kenmore » Sun Apr 24, 2011 8:16 am

The way I see it if there's enough people mining, growing crops, building things, etc. then why shouldn't there be people who prey on them? A nomadic race doesn't really have advantages over a planetary-based race unless they find it actually easier to move around stealing their resources from the other groups. Then most of the production stats become a non sequitur and you only have to worry about having a good raiding force.
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Look Ralph, it's like a good porno. Idiotic plot, excessive moaning, and it's unreal as shit. But at the end of the day: Who cares?
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Noders
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Noders » Sun Apr 24, 2011 8:42 am

Balrogga wrote:


Are you sure that is the right link?

It appears to be surface ships/sub/torpedo for an MT navy and not any FT ships.

Not space FT. Ship FT so yea its the right link.....
Socialdemokraterne wrote:Noders: Only the finest books and pizza. And books about pizza. Not so much their book-flavored pizzas, though.

Me=Noders God of pissing you off
Parkus= God Of Sex and Cool and lots of Cigs
Menasha= God of pissing Noders off
Tsarsgrad= The god of Rp's (right) :P
Koribaann=The god of GodModding
Spreewerke=God of the AK
Indeos=God of you know what just a bloody god
Hamittia=Thinks he's a god
Dorlania=Slave of false god
Prem=False Goddess
Xarithis= God Of World Domination
"Ruthless and efficient in the bedroom as well as on the battlefield, Britannia is the living emblem of strength, persistence, and dignity and Really Fucking Good Line Art.

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