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Communism!A Dream or a Ideology?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Just Choose!

Communism
41
18%
Capitalism
82
37%
Socialism
50
22%
Fascism
12
5%
Monarchy
18
8%
My own Theory.(Please describe)
21
9%
 
Total votes : 224

User avatar
Opiachus
Diplomat
 
Posts: 523
Founded: Jul 09, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Opiachus » Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:05 pm

Go Socialism!
I think that most capitalists still don't understand what communism is about. The Press and the American Capitalist Dream Propaganda have dissolved our brains into money mulch.

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Reoy
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 156
Founded: Aug 15, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Reoy » Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:06 pm

Again, this calls for a defining feature of a "nation", because they are are quite often just made up. Nations try to refer to a group of people who share genetic qualities, culture and are self-identifying. This means people need to come up with the idea of nation before the nation can even exist. Which means a people would cease to be a nation if they simply stop identifying as one, is that right?


That's definitely true in the larger nations of Europe. What is "French?" Even Occitan and Cosmopolitaine are subjective because of in-country migration.

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Greater Tezdrian
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6570
Founded: Feb 27, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Greater Tezdrian » Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:08 pm

Jakaragua wrote:
Greater Tezdrian wrote:Pan-nationalism is heavily debated among 3Pists, but I personally would let them go, as they are not part of the national culture, and have their own.

Then there are big contradictions amongst many nations if we had this "Pan Nationalism". English/Welsh/Scottish Nationalists and British Nationalists... Spanish and Catalan/Basque nationalists... Albanian and Serbian nationalists.

Again, this calls for a defining feature of a "nation", because they are are quite often just made up. Nations try to refer to a group of people who share genetic qualities, culture and are self-identifying. This means people need to come up with the idea of nation before the nation can even exist. Which means a people would cease to be a nation if they simply stop identifying as one, is that right?


And therein lies the problem with pan-nationalism. A nation is defined by some as just a group of people united by blood and language. But I believe a more strict definition is required. I define a nation as a group of people united by common ethnic heritage, language, and common shared history and length of identification. By that, I mean that a nation is a nation when it's citizens have long identified themselves and each other as citizens.
Thunderbolts steer all things
-Herakleitos of Ephesos, fr. 64
Trotskylvania wrote:FFS, on what planet do you spend most of your time?
Finium wrote:I think I love you
Vetalia wrote:I feel a strange compulsion to do what you ask now.
Vousielle wrote:As always, your posts engender in me a great dislike of you.
Genivaria wrote:Soooo Greater Tezdrian is a communist? :D
Seriously though, the fact that he hates both Socialism/Communism AND Democracy makes leftists look even better.
Camelza wrote:...he can be quite annoying though
Not your Grandmother's Greater Tezdrian: Now and forever a constitutional monarchy!


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Mercator Terra
Minister
 
Posts: 3320
Founded: Nov 14, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Mercator Terra » Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:11 pm

Why though? Im nothing like anyone else. Im an individual.
Vecherd wrote:
Linperia wrote:how can a market be free if we got participants with very few money and with a lot.
but maybe a equal market would lead to a free society.


A society that puts equality ahead of freedom will end up with neither.

Amoral Stirnerite Individualist Market Anarchist

“Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.” Friedrich Nietzsche
“Whoever will be free must make himself free. Freedom is no fairy gift to fall into a man's lap. What is freedom? To have the will to be responsible for one's self.”-Max Stirner

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Jakaragua
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1698
Founded: Nov 11, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Jakaragua » Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:11 pm

Reoy wrote:
Again, this calls for a defining feature of a "nation", because they are are quite often just made up. Nations try to refer to a group of people who share genetic qualities, culture and are self-identifying. This means people need to come up with the idea of nation before the nation can even exist. Which means a people would cease to be a nation if they simply stop identifying as one, is that right?


That's definitely true in the larger nations of Europe. What is "French?" Even Occitan and Cosmopolitaine are subjective because of in-country migration.

The reason why this doesn't spawn new nations is the fact that these groups did not come up with the idea of national identity. If, for example, Bavarians just came up with the idea of Bavarian nation they would immediately fulfill all the necessary definitions of nationality. As an example of the opposite, culture and genetics of the English colonists in America had no difference in relation to their British oppressors. Simply because the Americans identified themselves as a nation, they became one.

When politics is a way to solve issues of power and authority between groups, it is obvious that people should engage politics in groups based on power and authority, not petty differences. As differences between nations are entirely created by nationalist politics, choosing to organize by nationality is like choosing your favourite song based on the appearance of the singer.
Boredom is counter-revolutionary.

User avatar
Reoy
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 156
Founded: Aug 15, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Reoy » Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:15 pm

Mercator Terra wrote:Why though? Im nothing like anyone else. Im an individual.


You're affected by other individuals around you. In your current form, you are part of a collective. The only way to escape it is to roam alone.

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Mercator Terra
Minister
 
Posts: 3320
Founded: Nov 14, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Mercator Terra » Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:19 pm

Reoy wrote:
Mercator Terra wrote:Why though? Im nothing like anyone else. Im an individual.


You're affected by other individuals around you. In your current form, you are part of a collective. The only way to escape it is to roam alone.

SO why must we celebrate us being alike? I celebrate how I am different then all of you.
Vecherd wrote:
Linperia wrote:how can a market be free if we got participants with very few money and with a lot.
but maybe a equal market would lead to a free society.


A society that puts equality ahead of freedom will end up with neither.

Amoral Stirnerite Individualist Market Anarchist

“Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.” Friedrich Nietzsche
“Whoever will be free must make himself free. Freedom is no fairy gift to fall into a man's lap. What is freedom? To have the will to be responsible for one's self.”-Max Stirner

User avatar
Reoy
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 156
Founded: Aug 15, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Reoy » Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:20 pm

Jakaragua wrote:
Reoy wrote:
That's definitely true in the larger nations of Europe. What is "French?" Even Occitan and Cosmopolitaine are subjective because of in-country migration.

The reason why this doesn't spawn new nations is the fact that these groups did not come up with the idea of national identity. If, for example, Bavarians just came up with the idea of Bavarian nation they would immediately fulfill all the necessary definitions of nationality. As an example of the opposite, culture and genetics of the English colonists in America had no difference in relation to their British oppressors. Simply because the Americans identified themselves as a nation, they became one.quote]

That example is not true at all, the United States called themselves British until the war of 1812. And after that, the people identified by their state, not the Union. It was only during and after the Civil War that Americans considered themselves a single nation, and only in the North. I think your example goes against your point that nations are simple constructs, although I agree that national identity is petty.

User avatar
Greater Tezdrian
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6570
Founded: Feb 27, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Greater Tezdrian » Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:25 pm

Jakaragua wrote:
Reoy wrote:
That's definitely true in the larger nations of Europe. What is "French?" Even Occitan and Cosmopolitaine are subjective because of in-country migration.

The reason why this doesn't spawn new nations is the fact that these groups did not come up with the idea of national identity. If, for example, Bavarians just came up with the idea of Bavarian nation they would immediately fulfill all the necessary definitions of nationality. As an example of the opposite, culture and genetics of the English colonists in America had no difference in relation to their British oppressors. Simply because the Americans identified themselves as a nation, they became one.

When politics is a way to solve issues of power and authority between groups, it is obvious that people should engage politics in groups based on power and authority, not petty differences. As differences between nations are entirely created by nationalist politics, choosing to organize by nationality is like choosing your favourite song based on the appearance of the singer.

Please see my definition of nation. Discussing this with you is a refreshing intellectual exercise.
Thunderbolts steer all things
-Herakleitos of Ephesos, fr. 64
Trotskylvania wrote:FFS, on what planet do you spend most of your time?
Finium wrote:I think I love you
Vetalia wrote:I feel a strange compulsion to do what you ask now.
Vousielle wrote:As always, your posts engender in me a great dislike of you.
Genivaria wrote:Soooo Greater Tezdrian is a communist? :D
Seriously though, the fact that he hates both Socialism/Communism AND Democracy makes leftists look even better.
Camelza wrote:...he can be quite annoying though
Not your Grandmother's Greater Tezdrian: Now and forever a constitutional monarchy!


User avatar
Buffett and Colbert
Post Czar
 
Posts: 32382
Founded: Oct 05, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Buffett and Colbert » Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:33 pm

CTALNH wrote:Changed the title happy

Of course it's an ideology. That's not a point of contention.
If the knowledge isn't useful, you haven't found the lesson yet. ~Iniika
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Buffett and Colbert wrote:Clever, but your Jedi mind tricks don't work on me.

His Jedi mind tricks are insignificant compared to the power of Buffy's sex appeal.
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Buffett and Colbert wrote:My law class took my virginity. And it was 100% consensual.

I accuse your precious law class of statutory rape.

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JJ Place
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5050
Founded: Jul 30, 2008
Anarchy

Postby JJ Place » Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:33 pm

CTALNH wrote:You all have heard something about communism and you all have some kind of opinion on it so let's talk about it.
And vote
Personally I am a hardcore Stalinist.

Please keep Flamming to a minimum



Capitalism , Communism , Socialism , Fascism , and Monarchy are all on different scales and are different systems of societies ; Communism and Fascism are two types of societies all together ( Communism and Communist societies varies between different types of Communist ideologies of societies , ranging From Totalitarian Communism ( Psychotic Dictatorship ) all the way to Anarcho - Communism ( Left - Wing Utopia ) varies of Communist societies , with Fascist societies being generally considered to be that of societies from Psychotic Dictatorships to Corporate Police States , on the NS system of rating of societies ) , Capitalism sand Socialism are both types of Economic System , and Monarchies are a type of Government , most closely relating to a low level of political freedom of societies in which Monarchies are present within those societies .
The price of cheese is eternal Vignotte.
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Herrebrugh
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11734
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Herrebrugh » Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:39 pm

Well i'm basically a council communist or council marxist. Democratic communism ftw!

User avatar
Power and Stability
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1150
Founded: Apr 23, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Power and Stability » Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:03 pm

Herrebrugh wrote:Well i'm basically a council communist or council marxist. Democratic communism ftw!

*high fives*
The People's Union

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Meryuma
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12461
Founded: Jul 16, 2010
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Meryuma » Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:33 pm

Greater Tezdrian wrote:Authority is the only thing that gets things done and keeps people in check.


Do you need authority to go buy a beer? If it weren't for authority, would you gun people down in the street?

Herrebrugh wrote:Well i'm basically a council communist or council marxist. Democratic communism ftw!


Council communism/Luxembourgism is one of the forms of Marxism that I actually like. Generally, I can appreciate non-Leninist Marxism.
My blog
They don't sleep anymore on the beach.
Potarius wrote:
Neo Arcad wrote:Gravity is a natural phenomenon by which physical bodies attract with a force proportional to their mass.


In layman's terms, orgy time.


Niur wrote: my soul has no soul.


Saint Clair Island wrote:The English language sucks. From now on, I will refer to the second definition of sexual as "fucktacular."


Trotskylvania wrote:Alternatively, we could go on an epic quest to Plato's Cave to find the legendary artifact, Ockham's Razor.



Norstal wrote:Gunpowder Plot: America.

Meryuma: "Well, I just hope these hyperboles don't...

*puts on sunglasses*

blow out of proportions."

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


RIP in peace Oterro ;_;

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Meryuma
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12461
Founded: Jul 16, 2010
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Meryuma » Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:36 pm

Herrebrugh wrote:Well i'm basically a council communist or council marxist. Democratic communism ftw!


That's one of the Marxist tendencies I can actually get behind.
My blog
They don't sleep anymore on the beach.
Potarius wrote:
Neo Arcad wrote:Gravity is a natural phenomenon by which physical bodies attract with a force proportional to their mass.


In layman's terms, orgy time.


Niur wrote: my soul has no soul.


Saint Clair Island wrote:The English language sucks. From now on, I will refer to the second definition of sexual as "fucktacular."


Trotskylvania wrote:Alternatively, we could go on an epic quest to Plato's Cave to find the legendary artifact, Ockham's Razor.



Norstal wrote:Gunpowder Plot: America.

Meryuma: "Well, I just hope these hyperboles don't...

*puts on sunglasses*

blow out of proportions."

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


RIP in peace Oterro ;_;

User avatar
Power and Stability
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1150
Founded: Apr 23, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Power and Stability » Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:39 pm

Meryuma wrote:
Herrebrugh wrote:Well i'm basically a council communist or council marxist. Democratic communism ftw!


That's one of the Marxist tendencies I can actually get behind.

The Leninist interpretation of Marxism seems to fail, since allowing a few group of people control society(Vanguard party) will allow for the nation to become an authoritarian hellhole.(almost every 20th century attempt at socialism)
Last edited by Power and Stability on Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The People's Union

User avatar
Greater Tezdrian
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6570
Founded: Feb 27, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Greater Tezdrian » Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:40 pm

Meryuma wrote:
Greater Tezdrian wrote:Authority is the only thing that gets things done and keeps people in check.


Do you need authority to go buy a beer? If it weren't for authority, would you gun people down in the street?


No, but authority is needed to make sure the people who make and sell the beer are paid. And to make sure that you don't die on your way to the pub. And no, I would not. But others sure as hell will.
Thunderbolts steer all things
-Herakleitos of Ephesos, fr. 64
Trotskylvania wrote:FFS, on what planet do you spend most of your time?
Finium wrote:I think I love you
Vetalia wrote:I feel a strange compulsion to do what you ask now.
Vousielle wrote:As always, your posts engender in me a great dislike of you.
Genivaria wrote:Soooo Greater Tezdrian is a communist? :D
Seriously though, the fact that he hates both Socialism/Communism AND Democracy makes leftists look even better.
Camelza wrote:...he can be quite annoying though
Not your Grandmother's Greater Tezdrian: Now and forever a constitutional monarchy!


User avatar
Mercator Terra
Minister
 
Posts: 3320
Founded: Nov 14, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Mercator Terra » Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:45 pm

*Gasp* "Oh look (insert authoritarian dictator here)" *fapfapfapfapfap*
Vecherd wrote:
Linperia wrote:how can a market be free if we got participants with very few money and with a lot.
but maybe a equal market would lead to a free society.


A society that puts equality ahead of freedom will end up with neither.

Amoral Stirnerite Individualist Market Anarchist

“Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.” Friedrich Nietzsche
“Whoever will be free must make himself free. Freedom is no fairy gift to fall into a man's lap. What is freedom? To have the will to be responsible for one's self.”-Max Stirner

User avatar
Greater Tezdrian
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6570
Founded: Feb 27, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Greater Tezdrian » Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:47 pm

Mercator Terra wrote:*Gasp* "Oh look (insert authoritarian dictator here)" *fapfapfapfapfap*

Ya' know, I really don't get much flak for my views, but that is crossing a line.
Thunderbolts steer all things
-Herakleitos of Ephesos, fr. 64
Trotskylvania wrote:FFS, on what planet do you spend most of your time?
Finium wrote:I think I love you
Vetalia wrote:I feel a strange compulsion to do what you ask now.
Vousielle wrote:As always, your posts engender in me a great dislike of you.
Genivaria wrote:Soooo Greater Tezdrian is a communist? :D
Seriously though, the fact that he hates both Socialism/Communism AND Democracy makes leftists look even better.
Camelza wrote:...he can be quite annoying though
Not your Grandmother's Greater Tezdrian: Now and forever a constitutional monarchy!


User avatar
Mercator Terra
Minister
 
Posts: 3320
Founded: Nov 14, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Mercator Terra » Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:50 pm

Define "crossing the line".
Vecherd wrote:
Linperia wrote:how can a market be free if we got participants with very few money and with a lot.
but maybe a equal market would lead to a free society.


A society that puts equality ahead of freedom will end up with neither.

Amoral Stirnerite Individualist Market Anarchist

“Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.” Friedrich Nietzsche
“Whoever will be free must make himself free. Freedom is no fairy gift to fall into a man's lap. What is freedom? To have the will to be responsible for one's self.”-Max Stirner

User avatar
Greater Miami Shores
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 413
Founded: Aug 06, 2010
Capitalizt

Postby Greater Miami Shores » Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:51 pm

Mercator Terra wrote:*Gasp* "Oh look (Fidel Castro Ruz)" *fapfapfapfapfap*
:

Image
Fidel Castro Ruz. LOL.
Last edited by Greater Miami Shores on Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Meryuma
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12461
Founded: Jul 16, 2010
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Meryuma » Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:55 pm

Greater Tezdrian wrote:
Meryuma wrote:
Do you need authority to go buy a beer? If it weren't for authority, would you gun people down in the street?


No, but authority is needed to make sure the people who make and sell the beer are paid. And to make sure that you don't die on your way to the pub. And no, I would not. But others sure as hell will.


What powers do authorities have over "regular" people to decide those things? Why can't people decide those things for themselves? Also, I don't see why anyone would want to gun someone down in the street, unless they had severe mental issues. Besides, if someone was trying to gun you down in the street, you could fight back, plus try and get them to compensate you for what they did.
My blog
They don't sleep anymore on the beach.
Potarius wrote:
Neo Arcad wrote:Gravity is a natural phenomenon by which physical bodies attract with a force proportional to their mass.


In layman's terms, orgy time.


Niur wrote: my soul has no soul.


Saint Clair Island wrote:The English language sucks. From now on, I will refer to the second definition of sexual as "fucktacular."


Trotskylvania wrote:Alternatively, we could go on an epic quest to Plato's Cave to find the legendary artifact, Ockham's Razor.



Norstal wrote:Gunpowder Plot: America.

Meryuma: "Well, I just hope these hyperboles don't...

*puts on sunglasses*

blow out of proportions."

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


RIP in peace Oterro ;_;

User avatar
Zeth Rekia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18387
Founded: Oct 11, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Zeth Rekia » Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:55 pm

Mercator Terra wrote:*Gasp* "Oh look (insert authoritarian dictator here)" *fapfapfapfapfap*

*vomits a little bit in reaction to the quoted post*
Ewwww..

User avatar
Mercator Terra
Minister
 
Posts: 3320
Founded: Nov 14, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Mercator Terra » Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:57 pm

Image
Look at that piece of sexy dictatorship.
Vecherd wrote:
Linperia wrote:how can a market be free if we got participants with very few money and with a lot.
but maybe a equal market would lead to a free society.


A society that puts equality ahead of freedom will end up with neither.

Amoral Stirnerite Individualist Market Anarchist

“Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.” Friedrich Nietzsche
“Whoever will be free must make himself free. Freedom is no fairy gift to fall into a man's lap. What is freedom? To have the will to be responsible for one's self.”-Max Stirner

User avatar
Greater Tezdrian
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6570
Founded: Feb 27, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Greater Tezdrian » Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:58 pm

Meryuma wrote:
Greater Tezdrian wrote:
No, but authority is needed to make sure the people who make and sell the beer are paid. And to make sure that you don't die on your way to the pub. And no, I would not. But others sure as hell will.


What powers do authorities have over "regular" people to decide those things? Why can't people decide those things for themselves? Also, I don't see why anyone would want to gun someone down in the street, unless they had severe mental issues. Besides, if someone was trying to gun you down in the street, you could fight back, plus try and get them to compensate you for what they did.


If there was no government, there would be no cops. No cops means not enforcing the law. So, people could take out others without any thought of punishment. And, why would someone with money give it to others?
Thunderbolts steer all things
-Herakleitos of Ephesos, fr. 64
Trotskylvania wrote:FFS, on what planet do you spend most of your time?
Finium wrote:I think I love you
Vetalia wrote:I feel a strange compulsion to do what you ask now.
Vousielle wrote:As always, your posts engender in me a great dislike of you.
Genivaria wrote:Soooo Greater Tezdrian is a communist? :D
Seriously though, the fact that he hates both Socialism/Communism AND Democracy makes leftists look even better.
Camelza wrote:...he can be quite annoying though
Not your Grandmother's Greater Tezdrian: Now and forever a constitutional monarchy!


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