[DEFEATED] Transhuman Freedom and Acceptance Act

[Quadrimmina]

We feel this resolution's effects can be properly felt without the need to waste our General Fund money on a committee. Therefore, we will oppose this resolution until a rewrite without a committee is issued.

[Cardoness]

My King has asked me to express his concern of this proposal. He is worried about the Gattaca effect. Dr. Gattaca, a prominent geneticist in my country, noted that once a species started altering their genetic code certain jobs would only be available to persons with specific modifications. Within a couple of generations they become locked into a Class State where your future is determined by what modifications you can afford rather then how hard you work or how smart you are. Soon this process will happen at or before birth allowing a child to get a head start on everyone else. This spirals out of control until one loses the freedom of self determination. Dr. Gattaca also pointed out that had this been the case in our own history, many of our greatest scientists and leaders, including Dr. Gattaca himself, would not have existed in as we know them. One could only theorise how this alteration would have changed that rare spark which graced their mind and our world with brilliance. For this reason, we do not believe we will be able to support this.

[Genomita]

There's a simple solution to this problem. If only gentically engineered people are allowed to hold certain jobs for some reason, simply make genetic modification available to everyone. Besides, even in nations without transhumans people are still required to fulfil certain qualifications to attain a job. And we disagree on Dr. Gattaca's assessment that something like this would have meant that many of your greatest scientists and leaders would not have been as you know thwm. In fact, they would have been even greater than they had been without genetic modification.

Of course, you would have to give people the choice if they want to have their genes altered. If they decide against it and find they can't keep up with the rest of the nation... well, it's unfortunate, but noone can say you forced them into it.

[Cardoness]

What happens when one State goes from it being optional to being mandatory? This proposal does not provide for that, but does it prevent it? If so, what about species that may require some level of modification to live? I know I just switched arguments there, but if you don't ban it then you allow for it.

OCC: If Eisenstein (and fellow peers) or their parents had modified his genes to make him more focused, then we would have lost everything that his odd wandering mind came up with. Not to mention authors and other artist who have flaws which they draw upon to create such wonderful work. Beethoven, Edger Allen Poe, Emily Dickerson, Van Gogh, Ray Charles, and many others were affected by their personal flaws and through them gave us something beautiful. Without those flaws, there would have been nothing for them to overcome and thus their work would never have happened. Our views of the world, they way in which we interact with it, our very being is shaped by our flaws. No one wants the pain that has been inflicted on them, but it is through this pain that we discover more about ourselves. At one time, you were at a genetic disadvantage, and in many cases still are, if you were dark skinned. That is not to say that whites are a "master race" or otherwise superior, but it is just a fact that some people were at a disadvantage because of their genes. What would the world look like today if we had the power to alter those genes 100 years ago? To think that such modification would not lead down a similar road is naive. What happens when everyone is identical? What happens to self identity?

[Bears Armed]

"In the opinion of my government, this is a topic that should be left for individual nations to decide upon for themselves."


Artorrios o SouthWoods,
Chairbear, Bears Armed Mission at the World Assembly
for
The High Council of Clans,
The Confederated Clans of the Free Bears of Bears Armed.

[Embolalia]

May I ask why it is that we have here a proposal granting rights to genetically modified humans, but no such proposal for those who are not human at all? And why, exactly, is it the job of the WA to protect individuals who choose to genetically modify themselves? It really isn't the same thing as race, gender, sexual orientation, or even gender identity. It's a conscious choice to toy around with the foundations of life, and I fail to see any reason why our nation should be forced to tolerate it. Especially considering the lack of any similar protections for non-humans.

[Ardchoille]

As you may know, this proposal was the object of a legality challenge on the grounds of duplication of an existing resolution.

Sorry about the delay, I've just been busy (cough! gasp!) dying ... damn summer cold ... anyway, we collectively feel that this is another example of applying the general law established in an existing resolution to a specific group or specific set of circumstances. Not an attempted amendment -- ie, not changing the thrust of the original -- but an expansion.

Not illegal on the grounds of duplication.

[Erythrina]

'Orright then!

[Genomita]

How come so many nations oppose this legislation ? Is the majority of the WA really that narrow-minded ? Or are you telling me all these opposing votes come from religious nations who don't want any "genetic tampering" in their god-fearing nations ? I really don't understand how the majority of the WA could oppose such a noble goal. i must admit, I'm a little diappointed with the current developments. I thought the WA would be more open-minded than this.

[Firstaria]

I agree with the Genomita complain. Yes, the resolution talks about a really dangerous sector of science, seeing how this whole thing can be taken as a WA authorization to implement controlling chips or stupid things like that, but if you read carefully all the problems are covered and the "not personally authorized" use of Trans humanism is classified illegal. Are we really that closed about science???

[Genomita]

Thank you kindly, honorable ambassador of Firstaria. I would like to kindly ask all of you to carefully re-read the different points of the proposition and rethink your opposition.

[Embolalia]

How come so many nations oppose this legislation ? Is the majority of the WA really that narrow-minded ? Or are you telling me all these opposing votes come from religious nations who don't want any "genetic tampering" in their god-fearing nations ? I really don't understand how the majority of the WA could oppose such a noble goal. i must admit, I'm a little diappointed with the current developments. I thought the WA would be more open-minded than this.

Embolalia is hardly a religious nation. You might consider reading the thread. Possibly even my last post, which just about sums up my objections.

[Genomita]

If it is the lack of laws concerning non-humans that irks you, then i suggest you design your own legislation to correct this matter. Also, i don't see what#s so bad about a legislation that aims to encourage equality for transhumans.

[Cardoness]

There is nothing religious about it, at least from the Cardoness delegation. There are many practical reasons to oppose this proposal as we have pointed out. One law of nature that can't be modified is that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. We see beauty for what it is because we have seen ugliness. We see hope because we know despair. Creativity is born of pain. I agree it is a noble endeavor to better a species, but what this proposes would ulimitly lead to its destruction. It is foolish to think that this will not be abused by governments or individuals. It is a glorious idea that only works in the ivory tower. Down here on the ground it must face the reality that nothing works out the way we thought it would.

[Putzi]

Good evening,

I'm concerned about the effect of the Act on non-voluntary DNA testing. If

Transhuman Freedom and Acceptance Act
MODIFICATION(as used in this resolution) is hereby defined as any and all of the following:

• Gene manipulation (extraction of an individual’s genes, injection of genes, gene splicing)

means extracting an individuals genes and so their genome, i.e. their DNA, then with this bit:

The WA hereby decrees:
• Modification of any individual without their informed consent is hereby prohibited and recognized as criminal;

then the Act would prohibit and make illegal involuntary DNA testing? So no more maternity / paternity testing without consent, or use of DNA testing to solve rapes or murders without prime suspect's consent (despite how much other evidence there is) etc.? Is there a (gaping) hole in my logic? I hope so because it seems to be a dangerous unintended loophole? Or was this intended? I believe non-destructive in-vivo DNA reading is far beyond the realms of feasible science at present in any or most nations, so there is no other way of doing it than by extraction of a sample of genes?

Kindest regards
Bundespräsident Putzi

[Genomita]

There is nothing religious about it, at least from the Cardoness delegation. There are many practical reasons to oppose this proposal as we have pointed out. One law of nature that can't be modified is that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. We see beauty for what it is because we have seen ugliness. We see hope because we know despair. Creativity is born of pain. I agree it is a noble endeavor to better a species, but what this proposes would ulimitly lead to its destruction. It is foolish to think that this will not be abused by governments or individuals. It is a glorious idea that only works in the ivory tower. Down here on the ground it must face the reality that nothing works out the way we thought it would.

That's why we will have breth to provide guidelines for what is and what is not allowed as well as deal out adequate punishments for those who violate ghose guidelines.

[Cardoness]

(Forgive the "religious" refrence on the heals of us saying it wasn't about religion, which it's not) So instead of everyone playing god, only a handful get to play god? What makes these few worthy to decide what the "human" race should look like?

[Genomita]

This legislation not about who gets to decide what the human race should look like. It is meant to ensure that transhumans, such as the citizens of Genomita, can live without worry of being persecuted for being different. Humans are always quick to fear or despise those different from the norm. This legislation seeks to change that in regards to transhumans.

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

Not illegal on the grounds of duplication.

And Bloody Stupid? It didn't cross that threshold either?

[Cardoness]

This legislation not about who gets to decide what the human race should look like. It is meant to ensure that transhumans, such as the citizens of Genomita, can live without worry of being persecuted for being different. Humans are always quick to fear or despise those different from the norm. This legislation seeks to change that in regards to transhumans.

And as I said that is a noble goal, but this opens some big doors that should remain locked tight. It may not be your intention, then again maybe it is, but this will radically alter the species and it WILL have unintended and unforeseen consequences. My concern is not the equality of transhumans or any other transX species, but rather the equality of NON-transX a hundred years down the road.

[Genomita]

A wise man once said "We will cross that bridge when we get to it." But in all seriousness, I'm sure it should be clear to anybody that equality for transhuman individuals means thaey be considered the equal of unaltered members of their species, neither better nor worse, and I'm fairly sure the legislation covers that.

[Cardoness]

No a fool pretending to be a wise man said that. A true wise man tries to see all the paths laid out before him, both the paths in the sun and the paths through darkness, and plans accordingly. No journey is started without due consideration being given to the bridge that will have to be crossed.

[Genomita]

There is only so much one can plan for in advance without being all-knowing. While I can understand that you are worried about the future, let me ask you something:

Would a world populated by nothing but transhumans really be such a bad thing ? And before you asnwer yes, please think about it for a moment and think of all the good things that await someone who is willing to move past the limitations of the human body and mind.

[Antarsia]

A good Idea and a good argument, sad to see this suffering in the WA. Perhaps we're coming off a bit too strong, maybe divide your ideas up in to three or four seperate proposals, each one with increasing assertion, and generous timing between. If your lucky, you can change the "acceptability" of this proposal over time.

[Genomita]

That might just work, though I'm sure it will also lead to more people complaining about things that aren't covered.