The Miniluv Messenger: TEP Liberated!

[Lord Ravenclaw]

I am pleased to see this.

[Luxdonia]

For the years that Unibot's been active, it's taken years to get him banned for something that, in its severity, would have gotten him banned a long time ago from dozens of places I can name. Sexual harassment, whether the perpetrator is the mightiest heavyweight or the lowliest pariah, should not be tolerated under any circumstances by anyone. But it is at least good that firm action finally has been taken at last, and better late than never.

I agree with Kemi here. It is absolutely disgusting to see how long it took to ban Unibot when for ages, the ruling elite of the Realms have known about the actions he has committed.

Even though Unibot has been banned from the Rejected Realms, I will not be returning.

[John Turner]

Even though Unibot has been banned from the Rejected Realms, I will not be returning.

When did you leave? You were still
http://s8.zetaboards.com/The_RR_and_RRA ... &t=8465732 posting there as of less than a week ago.

[Guy]

Gradea resigned a day prior to this action being taken, and while the administrative process was ongoing.

[Xoriet]

Even though Unibot has been banned from the Rejected Realms, I will not be returning.

When did you leave? You were still
http://s8.zetaboards.com/The_RR_and_RRA ... &t=8465732 posting there as of less than a week ago.

*He left a day ago. Gradea, you don't need to make a big kerfluffle out of your departure every time. There isn't a need to dramatize the fact that you disagree with how things were handled further. If you're going to leave, leave without trying to grind TRR under your heel. It isn't impressive. I should think they've taken enough hits on the issue, and now that they settled on it, condemning them further accomplishes nothing.

[Reploid Productions]

It seems utterly ridiculous to me that NationStates game moderators and site administration cannot (or, in the case of site administration: choose not to) act to remove poisonous members of the community from this website just because they have been careful to keep their transgressions off-site.

It is good that player communities are stepping up to finally do something about it, but this should not be a matter that is left as the responsibility of each individual community.

It is a matter of security and verifiable information. We have zero way to verify any data from offsite. The extent of our jurisdiction remains limited by where we are able to verify the identity of users and the validity of the information. Offsite forums do not give us that validity; some forums allow their moderators to invisibly edit posts, or change which user made a post. We cannot verify that Nation A on Nationstates is in fact User A on any given offsite, nor can we determine that the evidence has not been fabricated or tampered with. And yes, there have been instances of problem users attempting to mods-as-weapons their targets here by presenting phony offsite evidence that they tried to get us to act on. A user's behavior off-site is the responsibility of whoever is in charge of that offsite to deal with.

As for the rest of the thread, let's remember that gloating can get you smacked. The best place to gossip about offsite drama is offsite, or in private. While we cannot and will not protect someone from the social consequences of their actions, we will not stand for sustained harassment either. Those of you who dislike Unibot are free to use the Foe list, telegram blocks, and regional controls of your regions to avoid interacting with him; I suggest using those tools, rather than let the social consequences thing devolve into actionable on-site harassment. Shunning an unpopular player does not mean trotting it out and celebrating and rubbing their face in it, it means actually not engaging with that player.


~Evil Forum Empress Rep Prod the Ninja Mod
~She who wields the Banhammer; master of the mighty moderation no-dachi Kiritateru Teikoku

[Cormac Stark]

As for the rest of the thread, let's remember that gloating can get you smacked. The best place to gossip about offsite drama is offsite, or in private. While we cannot and will not protect someone from the social consequences of their actions, we will not stand for sustained harassment either. Those of you who dislike Unibot are free to use the Foe list, telegram blocks, and regional controls of your regions to avoid interacting with him; I suggest using those tools, rather than let the social consequences thing devolve into actionable on-site harassment. Shunning an unpopular player does not mean trotting it out and celebrating and rubbing their face in it, it means actually not engaging with that player.

I hope that this was not directed at the actual article, because there was no gloating involved. It was literally a news report, reporting news. I'm not seeing gloating in the thread in general and I would find it funny, if I didn't find it sad, that a moderator is warning other players not to be too unkind to Unibot in the same post that you're rationalizing site administration's terrible policy of allowing this game to be used as a vehicle for reprehensible OOC behavior just because it occurs off-site -- which is, in and of itself, a consequence of this game being administered so poorly that activity must be taken off-site to derive anything more from this game than answering issues.

But then we should be used to site administration's and moderation's utter failure, and apparent indifference toward adequately responding to player needs by now.

[Improving Wordiness]

I highly doubt it is aimed at the article but a knowledge of player peers. I believe you take it the wrong way and mods are actually giving us all fair warning regarding the subject matter. As there is no actionable proven behaviour on NS site I think you expect too much of the mod team to be able to punish players for what occurs off site.

[Punk Daddy]

I've heard of these accusations for years. The problem I have had is that no one has provided actual evidence when accusing Unibot.

I'm actually with Reploid on this one, theoretically, and I'm also not a fan on how this site is administered. I do believe that Sedgistan as an admin of this game is acknowledging that Unibot has had some troubling conduct that, in my opinion, should actually carry some weight to what goes on here.

It's not like a random person or non-admin has noted this and made the decision to ban Unibot. And to me, if I were a game moderator/forum admin and I had actual evidence of such behavior I would not want that person on my boards at all.

I also believe that TRR should share what evidence they do have with other admins of forums Unibot frequents b/c I don't believe any of us should tolerate sexually harassing behavior. But without seeing such evidence it's difficult to ban someone, and from that perspective I do agree with Reploid.

[Guy]

The evidence was shared exclusively with the TRR admin team, and is not to be propogated further.

While Admins in other forums have their obligations towards their community, that would not excuse a breach of trust of those who provided the evidence.

[Bodobol]

I always got along with Unibot, it's a shame that he turned out to be engaging in this sort of conduct. I'm glad action was taken in TRR at least.

I've heard of these accusations for years. The problem I have had is that no one has provided actual evidence when accusing Unibot.

I'm actually with Reploid on this one, theoretically, and I'm also not a fan on how this site is administered. I do believe that Sedgistan as an admin of this game is acknowledging that Unibot has had some troubling conduct that, in my opinion, should actually carry some weight to what goes on here.

It's not like a random person or non-admin has noted this and made the decision to ban Unibot. And to me, if I were a game moderator/forum admin and I had actual evidence of such behavior I would not want that person on my boards at all.

I also believe that TRR should share what evidence they do have with other admins of forums Unibot frequents b/c I don't believe any of us should tolerate sexually harassing behavior. But without seeing such evidence it's difficult to ban someone, and from that perspective I do agree with Reploid.

I trust the TRR admins with this; and while I don't think Uni should necessarily be banned from other communities over conduct without proof, it's also not the place of the admins to share the evidence (as Guy has acknowledged). Such information should only be distributed at the will of the victims.

[New Rogernomics]

I can't really say anything for or against Unibot, as I haven't met him outside of forums, and 'harrasment' has to take place on the NS forum or in the game itself through telegrams, the RMB or something like that.

But if its off-site then it is up to Zetaboards, Proboards, Forummotion, and the admins of forums, to organize and run their communities. If it is a service like IRC or Skype, then again you have to provide evidence that someone's use of the service should be restricted, to those who run the service.

So, Unibot, think there are more interesting things to write about, like food and cooking recipes.

[Glen-Rhodes]

It's not that Skype and IRC logs are not seen as qualified evidence in offsite forums that had resulted in him not being banned in more. It's that those logs haven't been shared with very many, and there's been a reluctance to share them more widely. It's understandable that forum administrators don't want to act on anecdotes, especially when these harassing messages weren't sent to members of their communities.


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[Benevolent Thomas]

Poor Gradea. He can't even propagate popular opinion without getting checked.

[Reploid Productions]

Okay, timeout for brief thread cleanup.

Okay. Guys. People need to take a chill pill. This is not the place to be casually slinging such serious accusations around. A GP news report citing the alleged reasons for somebody getting kicked from an offsite is one thing. Beyond that, this thread has been rapidly degenerating into excessive nasty, even for Gameplay snark. Perhaps it is time for the team to revisit a potential crackdown on Gameplay behavior.

If you are being sexually harassed/creeped on by somebody on-site, or know someone who has been, file a report. Such investigations for on-site shenanigans require extensive and sometimes extremely long-term telegram snooping, which moderators are not permitted to just engage in on a whim. While we cannot take offsite evidence as actionable material, it can help us identify users who need to be investigated in greater depth on-site.

It is incredibly frustrating, not just to players but to the mods as well that we cannot make use of offsite evidence, even when it's provided by one of the mod team that happens to run an offsite. To do so would give such mod-operated offsites an unfair advantage that no other player offsite is able to enjoy, both in terms of the evidence thing as well as making such offsites "official" in recognition and thus getting an unfair boost.

Now, I'm not handing out warnings to anyone. I am going to Loom Ominously and give several of you (Luxdonia in particular) some very dirty looks however. It's a very twitchy topic, and I strongly advise people to refrain from posting until and unless they can do so calmly. Saves everybody a huge headache.

We now return you to your regularly-scheduled Gameplay news thread.


~Evil Forum Empress Rep Prod the Ninja Mod
~She who wields the Banhammer; master of the mighty moderation no-dachi Kiritateru Teikoku

[The Miniluv Messenger]

Big Brother is watching Gameplay

---

West Pacific Order: NPO Emperor Pushing for Autocratic Centralization in TWP

Former Delegate Darkesia: "He wants to put the Delegate in charge of the off site forum."

By Cormac Skollvaldr

---

It began innocently enough. On 02 November 2015, That Called the Vlagh, also known as Emperor Pierconium of the New Pacific Order, raised concerns about the state of activity on the West Pacific's off-site forum. By the following day, it was clear that his goal was to disrupt the status quo in TWP and integrate the off-site forum community completely under the Delegate's authority. It has been policy in the West Pacific for years for there to exist a cooperative but clear separation between the Delegate, who wields virtually undisputed and unlimited in-game authority, and the more open and democratic off-site forum community. TWP's Delegate, Elegarth, who also serves as NPO Senator of Foreign Affairs through the nation The Seeker of Power, has appeared open to integration of the off-site forum community under the Delegate's jurisdiction.

Although the NPO Emperor has taken the lead in calling for radical change, he is hardly alone. Former TWP Delegate Punk Daddy, currently a Guardian, has also expressed support for on-site and off-site integration. This comes just months after Punk Daddy voiced concern about both Elegarth's and Pierconium's motives in TWP during the NPO coup against Lazarus earlier this year. Thus far, no one has expressed strong opposition to the integration proposal, with only former Delegate Darkesia expressing any significant reservations. Neither has anyone proposed that integration of the off-site forum community under the Delegate's jurisdiction must be accompanied by greater democratic accountability of the Delegate to the residents of TWP, leaving the door open for an NPO-style autocratic government.

That the NPO Emperor has waited to make a push for greater autocratic centralization in TWP until his own Senator of Foreign Affairs was poised to become Delegate, and has since taken the seat, is striking enough. That he repeatedly referenced the alleged successes of the NPO to bolster his argument will be alarming for many foreign observers. Indeed, Pierconium is not even shying away from the whiff of full-blown autocracy. Responding to criticism of United RussoAsia's autocratic handling of the Delegacy, Pierconium stated: "To be fair, it failed because he was a weak willed individual, not because of anything inherently wrong with his plan."

These developments in TWP could be construed as part of a broader, though quiet effort by the NPO to salvage its status as a relevant world power after the collapse of its years-long imperialist endeavor in Lazarus. This proposal in TWP was preceded by a diplomatic push for re-establishment of relations with other Feeders and Sinkers as well as prominent user-created regions. The East Pacific, Osiris, and Europeia have all re-opened relations with the NPO, despite the absence of any substantive change in the regime that would indicate relations would improve or the regime would be anymore respectful of the sovereignty of other Feeders and Sinkers. The NPO has also approached the Feeders and Sinkers that remain distanced from the NPO, including Lazarus, for re-establishment of relations, though none of these regions have yet re-opened relations.

With as many Feeders and Sinkers now maintaining relations with the NPO as there are keeping their distance, how long will it be before the other dominoes fall, and what will that mean for the NPO's maneuvering in TWP? One thing is for certain: The NPO under Pierconium is no longer the chaotic and inept circus that it was under his predecessor, Krulltopia. The question for the rest of the world's major powers is whether that makes the NPO a potential friend or a potential threat to their sovereignty and the sovereignty of their allies.

[New Rogernomics]

The NPO did not approach Lazarus, in fact the reverse, and the 'approach' of both regions was over the GCR recruitment conference, and as yet I haven't made a decision on either the instance of the NPO or on other regions not technically having the best of relations with Lazarus.

These are very contentious issues in Lazarus, enough that re-opening embassies would require continuity of relations by at least two administrations. If you asked NPO, then, they would probably tell you basically the same thing.

I will have to decide over the weekend, and put whatever position I reach to cabinet for discussion, but I am by no means rushing the decision - as re-opening embassies would not take place without hesitation and/or opposition, if I am to pursue such a venture.

[Pierconium]

This is hilarious.

Inaccurate as usual. Good job.

[That Called the Vlagh]

So that I am clear, the entire point of this article is to highlight that my nation, which has been a part of TWP for over a decade, and has always advocated for the supremacy of the Delegacy is...advocating for the supremacy of the Delegacy?

Very interesting.

[Glen-Rhodes]

Funny, integration and acceptance of offsite government legitimacy has been a goal of TSP-TWP relations for years.


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[Cormac Stark]

Funny, integration and acceptance of offsite government legitimacy has been a goal of TSP-TWP relations for years.

I suspect TSP did not have the Delegate serving as autocrat over both in mind.

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

Funny, integration and acceptance of offsite government legitimacy has been a goal of TSP-TWP relations for years

Small heads-up here, no it hasn't. TWP has always been happy with its system of government. TSP always seemed to be getting its knickers in a twist about it. More recently its evolved into live and let live.

[Kringalia]

Relations between the South Pacific and the West Pacific are probably best left to the chief diplomats of each. They are probably better qualified to determine what the obstacles to full diplomatic relations are and how to solve them.

[Elegarth]

I don't like the sound of "The West Pacific Order", so regardless of how much you'd like this to be truth, it isn't.

Then again, thanks for thinking I can fool/trick/lie to the whole TWP-guardianship. I'm sure I'm not that good, Cormac, but your admiration makes me feel cozy and warm inside.

TSP: should you wish to discuss TWP-TSP relations, I'm always approachable via TG. We are thankful for the help provided ~46 days ago, so we may as well be friends at least.

Cheers, gameplay! See you around.

[Cormac Stark]

I don't like the sound of "The West Pacific Order", so regardless of how much you'd like this to be truth, it isn't.

It's not the name that's important, but rather the structure, the centralization of power under the Delegate. The relative independence of the off-site forum community in the West Pacific is one of the last things standing in the way of a Delegate who is an unchecked autocrat who can't be removed from power. A shift toward an unchecked autocrat who can't be removed from power is a shift toward NPO-style autocracy, as the NPO is the only Feeder or Sinker, thus far, that has embraced full autocracy, and it is the NPO Emperor who is pushing for this shift toward greater centralization under a Delegate who is also his Senator of Foreign Affairs.

Then again, thanks for thinking I can fool/trick/lie to the whole TWP-guardianship. I'm sure I'm not that good, Cormac, but your admiration makes me feel cozy and warm inside.

On the contrary, I'm not accusing either you or Pierconium of fooling, tricking, or lying to anyone. Pierconium has been quite transparent about the fact that this is a shift toward greater autocratic centralization under the Delegate. What is alarming is not that you're deceiving anyone, but that you're doing all of this out in the open, and the best the West Pacific can muster in opposition is half-hearted concern from Darkesia (who should have seen this situation coming a mile away, it's not like she wasn't repeatedly warned it would happen). Apparently TWP is ready to embrace its new NPO overlords. What a shame.