Tales of Two Horizons OOC-Open

[Conwy-Shire]

I like Sicilies ass kissing......

I don't... I love it
also - the use of the Army Group being written as something like 'in the Balkans and beyond' means you can direct them pretty much anywhere (except against moi)

[Alleniana]

ni3 app can into usage

Application

Name: German (Schweizer Republik, Schweiz, schweizerisch), Latin (Res publica Helvetica, Helvetica, Helveticus), English (Swiss Republic, Switzerland, Swiss)
Symbols: the flag is a big plus (blazoned gules a cross couped argent), coat of arms is the same on a Swiss inescutcheon (...or maybe not), no national anthem at the moment
Claims: Nein; IX (plus last prov. of Baden, minus Italian Tyrol?)
Power: I guess secondary would be pushing it; somewhere between secondary and tertiary? Not entirely sure

Government Structure: Unitary constitutional democratic republic; the government is divided into the legislature, the executive and the judiciary. The legislature is a single house, the Legislative Assembly, elected through proportional open party list representation (though marking the party list is optional), with elections every five years, overseen and organised by a section of the judiciary. This body must pass all legislation by a majority of the total number of members, regardless of how many are present in the chamber. Legislation then passes to the judiciary, which must determine that it is constitutional, in good form and not conflicting with existing legislation, and then add it to the law code, which is under civil law though legislators will try to legislate towards precedents in the law courts. From there on, the executive is responsible for executing it; the executive is not democratic, but is by appointment, somewhat like a corporation. The judiciary generally has a hand in it. The constitution must be changed via referendum managed by the judiciary; other influence may also be had by the citizenry through petitions, referenda, etc. which have legal and political status. There are 58 representatives (1 for every ~100,000) in the Assembly. Suffrage is universal for all male citizens
Ideology/Policy: Republicanism, democracy, pan-Germanism, nationalism/patriotism, liberty/freedom... liberalism?; roughly in order of importance. All are generally both supported by the people and the government.
Leaders: Head of the legislature, Chancellor Hans Johann Schmitz, (head of the executive, Prime Minister Ludwig von Delius, subordinate), head of the judiciary, Chief Judge Otto Herzog Sebastian
Capital City: Schwyz (capital moved there for historic reasons as well as due to congestion, isolating government, that sort of thing)

Population: 2,188,000-(113,900+58,600+91,100+183,600+58,700)+1,335,200+1,701,700+65,200+839,800+146,000 = 5,770,000
Primary Ethnic Group: German; specifically, Rhinelander, Swabian, Swiss, Tirolese/Austrian, Salzburgian/Austrian variants. Maybe even a bit Bavarian.
Minority Ethnic Groups: Italians; Venetians, Milanese (Lombardian), Savoyard, perhaps Fruilian? Also, some Romansh and Arpitans. Some French, probably Burgundian or potentially Occitan or some sort... Champagnese?
Description of Ethnicity: Almost all typical Germans, physically and ethnically. Increasing proportion of middle class, as in most of the richer parts of Europe and the world. Pretty homogeneous, hardworking, down-to-earth lot, eh?
Language: German, of above ethnic subgroup's dialects; Latin, Arpitan, French, Romansh, Italian are minorly used. German is primary, Latin is official/state/diplomatic, the others are minorities (either traders, small isolated communities, immigrants)
Religion: No official religion, officially secular. People are mostly Roman Catholic, Swiss Reformed, though lots of other minor Christian groups, mostly Protestant but also from other churches. Also, large Jewish minority, smaller numbers of various other groups (i.e. pagan, Muslim, Buddhist?)

Foreign Relations: Generally fears that Prussia or Austro-Bavaria will subsume it, meaning the loss of the treasured republican system and the loss of the opportunity to spread it, as well as other more unique ideologies (e.g. universal male suffrage, centralism, military organisation). However, it has been swept up in the pan-German craze, and would support a Germany, so long as it is an equal in power with the other main state/s (Prussia or Austria, again), and it is not absolutist; a Germany without a strong constitution would be anathema, and would either distance Switzerland from the movement or cause them to want to go for their own vision, perhaps by uniting with some other. Because of this, the German minors are generally kept friendly, being as it is that Switzerland arguably the only power on the second tier, between first tier P and A and the third tier minors (of which Hannover would probably lead)

Generally amicable relations with other states, due to Switzerland not being big enough to get pulled into situations that will make people hate it. In particular, as one of the oldest and most original republics, it has ideologial common ground with strongly constitutional or parliamentary states and republics. Perhaps slight friction with Venice over the Italians in far southern Tirol, which is governed as a territory (a bit aut onomous) as opposed to all other German speaking lands which are cantons, though the distinction is more symbolic. Swiss Guard is probably gone, so along with secularism, Vatican probably isn't as good a friend as IRL. I can't think much else foreign relation.
Military Information: The army of Switzerland has traditionally been unusual; it had a strong mercenary culture for a time in the medieval era, but this went into decline long ago. A militia structure came into being, local communities funding soldiers to fight, generally well-trained yet of a high number per capita. With centralisation in the Napoleonic era, however, things were once again completely redrawn, with a hard core of professional soldiers being formed out of various cantonal groups and soon being expanded, while large reserves back them up, formerly the militia. Reform has been ongoing, creating a high-quality volunteer army, based largely on hard-fought defence taking advantage of terrain, and controlled, precise offense where necessary. Infantry dominate in both fire and staying power; the cavalry is passable but by no means good, the artillery is only somewhat better, though all are well-funded enough.
Army Size: 75,000 standing army (fluctuates depending on necessity; it's pretty large, but apparently Switzerland had 2 oe 3% standing IRL), reserve of a further 150,000 undergoing expansion
Navy Size: heh, heh, heh. A few lake patrol boats, perhaps?

Economic Policy: Fairly standard; not quite protectionist, but not quite free trade either. Not a great subject of debate at the moment, pretty unremarkable policy for a European country, does fairly well. Does have a few irregularities, though, relating to banks, imports/exports, funding for public institutions (ay) and corporations.
Economic Situation: Pretty good; primary sector is doing well and competitive on scales of business, with socioeconomic mobility and a decent trade balance. Industry isn't huge but it's decent, and mostly self-sufficient, as it grows in recent years. Taxes and things, being moderate but better maintained than in a fair few countries, mean that the people get relatively more bang for their buck. That said, the Swiss economy isn't huge, hampered by the size of its market and sometimes by its neighbours' policies and attitudes towards the country.
Infrastructure: Decent; mountains are a significant barrier to movement, central as they are to the nation's geography, but this does allow business to spring up based on moving things across the Alps, which the Swiss have to do well by necessity. Roads in other parts of the country are pretty well built, Switzerland being relatively affluent, as are buildings in general, as regulated by building codes as you'll find in a country of this era.
Imports & Exports: Swiss exports include agricultural products, particularly cheeses and other dairy though also potatoes and the like, wood products (both from native and plantation forests), some manufactured goods (watches :3), while imports include industrial goods, especially raw (coal, iron ore?), some luxury goods (tea?), some manufactured goods (porcelain, guns?) and some foodstuffs
Currency: Swiss gulden (as you'd expect, a gold coin), subdivided into 10 silver schillings, though the schillings are worth more converted into gold than melted down, so effectively gold standard

History: Basically, RL Switzerland, except the French and Italian speaking parts never join, Tirolese/Salzburg bits do join, and somewhere along the line, Duke of Wurttemburg dies and in an Ambrosian Republic style thing they join. Some war with Baden, later on, I guess? Tirol and Vorarlberg probably related, perhaps in some Habsburg dispute or before Austria took over... perhaps some strange succession that cleaved them, I dunno to be honest. Styria, hue? Oh and later on, there is civil war and Napoleon which causes the rapid centralisation and relative normality as opposed to IRL.

1291 - Federal Charter of 1291 founds Switzerland
1315 - Pact of Brunnen secures autonomy for Switzerland from the Holy Roman Empire, and opens the way to considerable expansion including the cantons of Glarus, Zug, Lucerne, Zürich and Berne
1339 - Battle of Laupen ends Bern-Freiburg conflict, causing decline in Habsburg influence and the pulling of Freiburg into the Swiss sphere
1352 - Switzerland conquers and takes the cantons of Zug and Glarus, military success pressures the emperor to also recognise other rights
1353 - Bern properly joins Confederacy
1369 - Margaret, Countess of Tyrol, bequeaths county to little-known distant relative, causing disagreements among the nobility
1370 - Pfaffenbrief solidifies relations, forbids individual cantonal wars and expresses territorial unity
1408 - Battle of Bregenz ends in Swiss victory over the Habsburgs
1408 - Partition of Furstenburg is disputed, Swiss observers involved in region
1411 - Appenzell becomes Swiss after insurrection against Habsburg succeeds with support
1415 - The Aargau is conquered by the Swiss after disputes between the Habsburgs and the Pope
1441 - Swiss involvement in Furstenburg results in assassination of local noble and takeover
1446 - Old Zurich War ends in Swiss victory, reincorporation Zurich into the confederacy and forcing them to break their links with the Habsburg, showing decisive centralisation and closer ties' presence
1451 - Abbey of St. Gall becomes Swiss
1454 - Schaffhausen concludes treaty with Swiss for protection against robber barons and Habsburgs
1459 - Stein am Rhein concludes treaty with Swiss similar to one with Schaffhausen
1460 - Thurgau is seized by the Swiss from the Habsburgs
1462 - Swiss begin fabricating claims due to disputed election and war between the Elector Palatine and the Margrave of Baden
1474 - Charles the Bold's death leaves Burgundy devastated; Swiss conclude treaties that somewhat reduce their influence in Vaud, but gain them significant traction in Breisgau which foreshadows territorial expansion in the region
1476 - Switzerland returns Vaud to Savoy for large ransom
1479 - Swiss claims on Franche-Comte sold to France
1490 - Furstenburg-Wolfach inheritance disputed by Swiss and other nobles due to involved parties' insanity and bad reputation, ends after long dispute in favour of Swiss who slowly increase influence
1498 - Three Leagues become formally associated with Switzerland
1499 - Swabian War between Swiss and Habsburgs, with Bishop of Constance having declared for the Swiss at the last moment; decisive Swiss victory secures exemption from the Diet of Worms and territorial rights, influence & prestige in Swabia
1499 - French Invasion of Milan marks end of Swiss expansion in Ticino
1501 - Schaffhausen and Basel formally joined Switzerland
1513 - Appenzell ascends to become full member of Confederacy
1515 - Battle of Marignano, combined with Milanese upsurge, sees recent gains in Ticino lost to Switzerland, while it provokes
1523 - Extinction of Montforts in Bregenz comes to Swiss annexation of Bregenz and skirmishes against other Montforts and Habsburgs in Vorarlberg region
1524 - Bundesbrief sees Three Leagues join Confederacy formally
1524 - Recently independent Stühlingen, Messkirch and Heiligenberg joins Swiss with minimal Swiss intervention in German Peasants' War
1529 - War of Kappel over religious tolerance, ended without military conflict with a treaty
1534 - Swiss attack on Vaud falters due to domestic issues; several meetings convened, affirming old rights and reworking religious systems, increasingly tolerant to avoid surrounding regions' conflicts
1564 - Treaty of Lausanne sees splits with western French-speaking areas deepen over religious and political differences, while some potential applicants in the north are somewhat welcomed
1579 - Partition of Hohenzollern begins Swiss animosity and involvement in the region
1618 - Conflict in Valtellina prompts Swiss members to convene and improve treaties, affirming intervention in some cases, preventing war from coming to the Grisons
1623 - Elevation of Hohenzollern-Hechingen disputed, causes further rivalry between Hohenzollerns and Swiss
1648 - Peace of Westphalia provides small boons for Swiss for their mercenaries' help on both sides, and their slight involvement in helping arbitration
1653 - Peasant War unsuccessful on the revolters' part, but prevents long-term trend of absolutism due to demands and rights, as well as recognition of rural importance
1656 - War of Villmergen breaks out between Zurich and Schwyz, other cantons intercede and large-scale civil war is mostly avoided through various compromises
1663 - Swiss sign treaty with France, affirming ties and prevent war, allowing French conquest of Alsace-Lorraine and expansion into Vaud/Geneva region
1712 - Toggenburg War, treaty with France broken and Protestant authority established in Switzerland though only barely and with little military confrontation
Here's where I got bored; so, basically, further expansion into Tyrol and northern Baden/Wurttemburg, centralisation, civil war breaks out in 1700s over post-Reformation issues, ends in dramatic centralisation and reform as well as formal independence from HRE; Napoleon comes, even more reform and drastic change, borders solidified, Republic established in wake, granted Salzburg

Miscellaneous: I'm not totally sure on the economy stuff, so I might change it later on. Also, SWHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUE
RP Example: Freude, schöner Götterfunken
429

What's the plausibility of Venice having railroads under work,

Plausible. I think.

both fruits
sorry

Again, regarding Austrobav, what are people calling it? I would have imagined that it would mostly be known as Bavaria, since it's a kingdom, which is more senior than Austria, an archduchy. It'd be like the Dukes of Normandy preferring to be called dukes rather than Kings of England (well, and Aquitaine and those other places)

I think the player that is working on it is actually calling it the Holy Roman Empire ;U;

Oh, yeah, hmm... So, the HRE is a member of the German Confed?

[Elepis]

@Mamluks, what will happen if Russia invades me, you're both of our allies? And would you be willing to support me in the conquest of Central Asia?

A) Whomever was on the defensive, I would most probably support

B) I would like 46 to be left alone to prove a buffer between you and Russia but I can probably help you with the rest. What would Persia need?

[Elepis]

I shall get a post up tomorrow.

On the subject of Cyprus, how much would you pay for it (the modern Republic that is)?

It'd be all or nothing. At the current moment I doubt there are even that many non-Greeks in Cyprus anyway.

The offer would be somewhere around a lot.

Okay, your a lot of money, a defensive alliance and a military alliance against Rum and in return you get all Cyprus

[Reatra]

*slightly freaks out*
I'll app tomorrow. Is Switzerland not meant to have the one province left of Baden?

OH MEIN GOTT


ALLLLLLLLENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN


KISS MY BABIES
WHY YOU ALWAYS LYIN THO?

[Caltarania]

Muh Enemy, Shit now I;ll have to change my foreign Relations.

Well I mean, you could just give me the unjustly occupied Greek territories and then we can be friends!

WIP, will likely edit the history and some other things I missed/messed up, but here's what I've got so far.

Application

Name: The French Kingdom
Symbols: Flag, the Tricolore
Coat of Arms
Liberty Leading the People
Légitimistes
Bonapartistes
Claims: 2
Power: Great Power

Government Structure: Constitutional Monarchy
Ideology/Policy: Orléanist, Liberalist, Mercantilism
Leaders: By the Grace of God and by the Constitutional Law of the State, King of the French Louis Philippe I d'Orléans
Capital City: Paris
Population: 33,541,000
Primary Ethnic Group: French
Minority Ethnic Groups: Breton, Arab, Berber, ethnic groups indigenous to the African colonies, French Louisiana, isle of Hispaniola, all other French colonies in the Americas, and the French establishment in India.
Description of Ethnicity: Gauls mixed with Romans and Franks. France is still a patchwork of local customs and regional differences, and besides the common speaking of the French language, the definition of a unified French culture is a complex issue. The country has been unified somewhat during the French Revolution and the rule of Napoleon, helped by conscription mixing French from different regions.
Language: French, and many regional languages.
Religion: The French Kingdom has no state religion, however the majority of its citizens are Roman Catholic.

Foreign Relations:
Positive:
Columbian Federation
Iberian Imperial Federation
Kingdom of Corsica-Piedmont
Kingdom of Greece
Second Mexican Empire
The Most Serene Republic of Venice
The Hesperian Union
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland

Neutral:
Empire of all Russias
Kingdom of Belgium
Kingdom of Scandinavia
Republic of Switzerland
Nearly everyone else

Negative:
Austro-Bavarian Empire
Dai Viet
Empire of the Mali
Kingdom of Prussia
Kingdom of Valencia and the Catalans
United Provinces of the Netherlands
Military Information: Used to be amazing. The Grande Armée was one of the greatest fighting forces ever assembled. The French Army is now a shadow of its former self however. Has the men, but lacks the tactical prowess and discipline that it used to have. The structure of the French Army has remained unchanged since and some officers from the Napoleonic Wars still hold positions, such as Marshal Ney.
Army Size: About 570,000 men. More can be called up in times of war due to conscription.
Navy Size: 68 Ships of the line
38 Frigates
464 Transports

Economic Policy: Liberalism, Consumerism, Protectionism
Economic Situation: France largely still is a land of peasantry. However, urbanisation of the largest cities is well under way, and Paris is a leading world capital already. Smaller French towns and the country's many small villages, however, are impoverished and industrially backward. Around the great cities, and in the north and in other areas which had natural resources readily available, large industries have formed. Capital was available through the strong national bank and numerous aggressive private banks largely located in Paris, which finances projects all across Europe. The French capital has become world famous for making consumerism a social priority and economic force, especially through its upscale arcades filled with luxury shops and its grand department stores. These "dream machines" set the world standard for consumption of fine products by the upper classes as well as the rising middle class.
Infrastructure: The opinion that railways can became a national medium for the modernization of backward regions, is developing fast, however France currently does not have a large amount of railways.
Imports & Exports: Exports textiles (linen, woolen), furs, coal, iron, machinery, food. Imports timber, raw materials, anything to make more railways.
Currency: French Francs.

History: PoD to 1813
1813 - Napoléon is decisively defeated at the Battle of Leipzig.
1814 - Napoléon accepts the Treaty of Chaumont. France returns to its borders as of 1792, Napoléon is exiled to Elba and joined by his wife Marie Louise, their son Napoléon II becomes Emperor. Talleyrand is appointed regent by the Coalition.
1820 - Napoléon II dies without issue. A Royalist coup prevents the throne passing to Joseph Bonaparte, living in Columbia at the time (he does little to press his claim). Louis XVIII is crowned as King of France. Napoléon unsuccessfully attempts to escape Elba.
1822 - Marie Louise gives births to twins by Napoléon. A son, also named Napoléon, and a daughter, named Joséphine.
1824 - Louis XVIII dies without issue. His brother Charles X is crowned.
1825 - The unpopular Anti-Sacrilege act was passed.
1827 - Charles X dismisses the National Guard.
1830 - Algeria invaded by France to improve Charles' dismal popularity.
1830 - Charles signs the July Ordinances to pacify the French people. It has the opposite effect.
1830 - The July Revolution. Charles X is forced to abdicate and Louis Philippe, Duke of Orléans, is elected King of the French. The Bourbons go into exile in Great Britain.
1831 - Joseph Bonaparte is offered the position of Governor of France, which he accepts. Napoléon excludes Joseph from his 'succession'.
1832 - Louis-Napoléon Bonaparte, nephew of Napoléon I enrolls in the Swiss Army.
1834 - Charles X dies, his son becoming the legitimist pretender Louis XIX.

Miscellaneous:
RP Example:
429

Just to notify you, in m'history I noted that France supported Hellas diplomatically during the Second Independence War.

Hungars gibe back Dalmazia and Ragussa plz

Over my dead body

Kisi reply to muh letter pl0x.

If you force me at gunpoint then I would have to say 'yes', but otherwise, I'm sticking with Venice. Epirus and Greece aren't on the best of terms.

Well Epirus has a big choice in front of it... It can side with Venice, Sicily, or come over to the side with Cookies! Hungary and Greece!

(We'd want them to give us that southern province though.)

But yes! Kookies!

[Kisinger]

Muh Enemy, Shit now I;ll have to change my foreign Relations.

Well I mean, you could just give me the unjustly occupied Greek territories and then we can be friends!

WIP, will likely edit the history and some other things I missed/messed up, but here's what I've got so far.

Application

Name: The French Kingdom
Symbols: Flag, the Tricolore
Coat of Arms
Liberty Leading the People
Légitimistes
Bonapartistes
Claims: 2
Power: Great Power

Government Structure: Constitutional Monarchy
Ideology/Policy: Orléanist, Liberalist, Mercantilism
Leaders: By the Grace of God and by the Constitutional Law of the State, King of the French Louis Philippe I d'Orléans
Capital City: Paris
Population: 33,541,000
Primary Ethnic Group: French
Minority Ethnic Groups: Breton, Arab, Berber, ethnic groups indigenous to the African colonies, French Louisiana, isle of Hispaniola, all other French colonies in the Americas, and the French establishment in India.
Description of Ethnicity: Gauls mixed with Romans and Franks. France is still a patchwork of local customs and regional differences, and besides the common speaking of the French language, the definition of a unified French culture is a complex issue. The country has been unified somewhat during the French Revolution and the rule of Napoleon, helped by conscription mixing French from different regions.
Language: French, and many regional languages.
Religion: The French Kingdom has no state religion, however the majority of its citizens are Roman Catholic.

Foreign Relations:
Positive:
Columbian Federation
Iberian Imperial Federation
Kingdom of Corsica-Piedmont
Kingdom of Greece
Second Mexican Empire
The Most Serene Republic of Venice
The Hesperian Union
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland

Neutral:
Empire of all Russias
Kingdom of Belgium
Kingdom of Scandinavia
Republic of Switzerland
Nearly everyone else

Negative:
Austro-Bavarian Empire
Dai Viet
Empire of the Mali
Kingdom of Prussia
Kingdom of Valencia and the Catalans
United Provinces of the Netherlands
Military Information: Used to be amazing. The Grande Armée was one of the greatest fighting forces ever assembled. The French Army is now a shadow of its former self however. Has the men, but lacks the tactical prowess and discipline that it used to have. The structure of the French Army has remained unchanged since and some officers from the Napoleonic Wars still hold positions, such as Marshal Ney.
Army Size: About 570,000 men. More can be called up in times of war due to conscription.
Navy Size: 68 Ships of the line
38 Frigates
464 Transports

Economic Policy: Liberalism, Consumerism, Protectionism
Economic Situation: France largely still is a land of peasantry. However, urbanisation of the largest cities is well under way, and Paris is a leading world capital already. Smaller French towns and the country's many small villages, however, are impoverished and industrially backward. Around the great cities, and in the north and in other areas which had natural resources readily available, large industries have formed. Capital was available through the strong national bank and numerous aggressive private banks largely located in Paris, which finances projects all across Europe. The French capital has become world famous for making consumerism a social priority and economic force, especially through its upscale arcades filled with luxury shops and its grand department stores. These "dream machines" set the world standard for consumption of fine products by the upper classes as well as the rising middle class.
Infrastructure: The opinion that railways can became a national medium for the modernization of backward regions, is developing fast, however France currently does not have a large amount of railways.
Imports & Exports: Exports textiles (linen, woolen), furs, coal, iron, machinery, food. Imports timber, raw materials, anything to make more railways.
Currency: French Francs.

History: PoD to 1813
1813 - Napoléon is decisively defeated at the Battle of Leipzig.
1814 - Napoléon accepts the Treaty of Chaumont. France returns to its borders as of 1792, Napoléon is exiled to Elba and joined by his wife Marie Louise, their son Napoléon II becomes Emperor. Talleyrand is appointed regent by the Coalition.
1820 - Napoléon II dies without issue. A Royalist coup prevents the throne passing to Joseph Bonaparte, living in Columbia at the time (he does little to press his claim). Louis XVIII is crowned as King of France. Napoléon unsuccessfully attempts to escape Elba.
1822 - Marie Louise gives births to twins by Napoléon. A son, also named Napoléon, and a daughter, named Joséphine.
1824 - Louis XVIII dies without issue. His brother Charles X is crowned.
1825 - The unpopular Anti-Sacrilege act was passed.
1827 - Charles X dismisses the National Guard.
1830 - Algeria invaded by France to improve Charles' dismal popularity.
1830 - Charles signs the July Ordinances to pacify the French people. It has the opposite effect.
1830 - The July Revolution. Charles X is forced to abdicate and Louis Philippe, Duke of Orléans, is elected King of the French. The Bourbons go into exile in Great Britain.
1831 - Joseph Bonaparte is offered the position of Governor of France, which he accepts. Napoléon excludes Joseph from his 'succession'.
1832 - Louis-Napoléon Bonaparte, nephew of Napoléon I enrolls in the Swiss Army.
1834 - Charles X dies, his son becoming the legitimist pretender Louis XIX.

Miscellaneous:
RP Example:
429

Just to notify you, in m'history I noted that France supported Hellas diplomatically during the Second Independence War.

Over my dead body

Kisi reply to muh letter pl0x.

Well Epirus has a big choice in front of it... It can side with Venice, Sicily, or come over to the side with Cookies! Hungary and Greece!

(We'd want them to give us that southern province though.)

But yes! Kookies!

I'll make it in my counter offer and I'll reply tomorrow.

[Caltarania]

Kisi reply to muh letter pl0x.

I'll make it in my counter offer and I'll reply tomorrow.

kkk ta

[Kisinger]

I'll make it in my counter offer and I'll reply tomorrow.

kkk ta

Now you is my sphereling

[Caltarania]

kkk ta

Now you is my sphereling

Actually I think I'm Prussia's baby but I mean we're Greeks so I'm sure we're k with a polygamous parentage.

Also Senkaku's amazing China court politics posts both amaze and confuse me.

[Alleniana]

*slightly freaks out*
I'll app tomorrow. Is Switzerland not meant to have the one province left of Baden?

OH MEIN GOTT


ALLLLLLLLENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN


KISS MY BABIES
WHY YOU ALWAYS LYIN THO?

I did app, just not completely
;_;

Bavarestan, look at muh history pls

[Reatra]

OH MEIN GOTT


ALLLLLLLLENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN


KISS MY BABIES
WHY YOU ALWAYS LYIN THO?

I did app, just not completely
;_;

Bavarestan, look at muh history pls

No not that. You said you were done RPing and we all cried ourselves to sleep for a few months.

[Alleniana]

I did app, just not completely
;_;

Bavarestan, look at muh history pls

No not that. You said you were done RPing and we all cried ourselves to sleep for a few months.

not... done, just... a bit done

I'll be quite honest; the reason I joined was because one morning, I woke up, turned the alarm off, fell back asleep, and had a dream that lasted about 4 minutes (before I woke again and had to get ready for school), and it involved playing a Switzerland, not a conservative crazy federal neutral-assed one, but an interesting, somewhat republican, active one. And I was scrolling through the thread, and I was doing stuff, and it was great and fun and happiness, then I woke up. And there and then, I resolved I'd find an NS RP and do a republican Switzerland. And, well... I did.

[Reatra]

No not that. You said you were done RPing and we all cried ourselves to sleep for a few months.

not... done, just... a bit done

I'll be quite honest; the reason I joined was because one morning, I woke up, turned the alarm off, fell back asleep, and had a dream that lasted about 4 minutes (before I woke again and had to get ready for school), and it involved playing a Switzerland, not a conservative crazy federal neutral-assed one, but an interesting, somewhat republican, active one. And I was scrolling through the thread, and I was doing stuff, and it was great and fun and happiness, then I woke up. And there and then, I resolved I'd find an NS RP and do a republican Switzerland. And, well... I did.

Gib industry to Mali pl0x


And I've had similarly vivid dreams that make me go out and get something done... But they usually have to do with girls as opposed to mountain nations...

[Elepis]

So Calt, should I send a letter to you or vise versa?

[Alleniana]

not... done, just... a bit done

I'll be quite honest; the reason I joined was because one morning, I woke up, turned the alarm off, fell back asleep, and had a dream that lasted about 4 minutes (before I woke again and had to get ready for school), and it involved playing a Switzerland, not a conservative crazy federal neutral-assed one, but an interesting, somewhat republican, active one. And I was scrolling through the thread, and I was doing stuff, and it was great and fun and happiness, then I woke up. And there and then, I resolved I'd find an NS RP and do a republican Switzerland. And, well... I did.

Gib industry to Mali pl0x


And I've had similarly vivid dreams that make me go out and get something done... But they usually have to do with girls as opposed to mountain nations...

>implying getting girls is better than getting mountain nations

Anyway, I'm trying to do parties for the tagsatzung of Switzerland and it's proving hard. So far, I'm thinking something like
- Republican Party
- Liberal Party
- Democratic Party
- Catholic/Reformed(ist?) Party
- Secular Party
- Romansh Party
- Pan-German (or some variant thereof) Party
- Federalist/Confederal Party
- Urbane Party?
- Rural(ist?) Party?
- Conservative Party?

[Elepis]

what resources does Ethiopia have?

[Caltarania]

So Calt, should I send a letter to you or vise versa?

About Cyprus? Whichever you prefer. I'd say at this point it's pretty well known that we want it, and we have already sent you a letter regarding Venice/Rum anyhow, so you'd be able to offer the sale of Cyprus to us, I'd say.

[Elepis]

So Calt, should I send a letter to you or vise versa?

About Cyprus? Whichever you prefer. I'd say at this point it's pretty well known that we want it, and we have already sent you a letter regarding Venice/Rum anyhow, so you'd be able to offer the sale of Cyprus to us, I'd say.

okay dockay, will do


to invade S. Sudan or Ethiopia....

[Liecthenbourg]

Interesting that Britain is planning to move on Nusantara.

The Song I'll likely want a piece of that action, when it gets going.

And what if we don't want you in our grand coalition

Also, just to clarify, I don't want Louisiana. My post about paying more was a joke

[The Jonathanian States]

stuff

Uh, well, I'm convinced, I just saw "At the beginning of the twentieth century, the fact that Silesians were part of the Polish nation was not questioned." and went with it.

I have no idea what this is in response to, but sure.

That's why Schleswig got partitioned into a German and a danish part, right?

No, well, you said that it depended on how I defined Schleswig and Holstein, so I defined Schleswig as the Danish speaking part

Good job me, I literally gave you permission to make my point invalid. Screw your definition of Schleswig, though.

Obviously it's not the duchy.
Now, in the grand duchy there's this:


There's also this:

Considering the areas speaking french were split off, I'd assume what remained did not speak french..... seem reasonable?

These are all referring to the Grand Duchy which I said I'd annex...

Yes, they are. But re-reading what you wrote I now think it was actually referring to the province.
Also, Prussia doesn't lay claim to the province either. It'd nom (parts of) it if it were to (help) partition Belgium, but as such it does not lay claim to it and would not should it unify Germany.

stuff

*bangs head*
evtyghin is muddle ;_;
I made a response but it got endlessly tied up in itself, so delete 'tis.

Been there, done that.
Also, I assume this is about the part where you use 1865 populations?

Can you TG me your email? I'll start a google spreadsheet. I don't remember a lot of what I did and I'm a bit lost.

Can do.

Though, I think you forgot Posen,

Yes.

and I still don't know why you didn't use http://populstat.info/Europe/austriac.htm and http://populstat.info/Europe/czechrpc.htm

Because I've forgotten that in their case it uses the modern borders, I think.

http://populstat.info/Europe/germanyc.htm 28,237,000 for the German Empire in 1834 - for 1835, let's assume 28.5mil
Areas with populations of Germans outside the German Empire are Austria, Liechtenstein, Bohemia (let's say ~1/3, rounded down), Switzerland, Luxembourg and those tiny dots scattered around Europe (probably less than IRL due to no Austrians in Hungary, but still probably kind of present) [I'm not sure if the German Empire figure includes Alsace-Lorraine or not, I assume it does, but anyway, the difference couldn't be more than a million)
Areas with populations of non-Germans inside the German Empire are Posen/Poznan, Silesia (I don't know as much as you do, I'll put it at 1/2 for now because it's in the middle and I have no idea), and Schleswig-Holstein
So, going through our German Empire-based shopping list

+ + +
http://populstat.info/Europe/luxembgc.htm 175,200 for Grand Duchy of Luxembourg in 1839 - for 1835, let's assume negligible
http://populstat.info/Europe/austriac.htm 3,476,500 for 1830, 3,649,700 for 1840 for modern Austria - for 1835, let's assume 3.5mil (yes yes South Tirol is missing but shush, assume negligible; it's only just 500k today)
http://populstat.info/Europe/czechrpc.htm 6,340,800 for 1840 - for 1835, let's assume 6mil, multiplied by 1/3 for German population = 2mil
I'm just going to assume Liechtenstein is negligible
http://populstat.info/Europe/switzerc.htm 2,188,000 for Switzerland in 1838, taking off the handful of non-German cantons, it's about 1.5mil (you can see the calculations I did for it in my app)
Tiny dots scattered around Europe... eh, let's use them as an excuse to round up

- - -
http://populstat.info/Europe/germanyr.htm 1,233,900 for Posen in 1841 - for 1835, let's assume 1mil
http://populstat.info/Europe/germanyr.htm 2,858,800 for Prussian Silesia in 1841 - for 1835, 1.5mil?
http://populstat.info/Europe/germanyr.htm 803,600 for Schleswig-Holstein in 1841 - for 1835, let's assume 0.5mil (rounded down because Danes in the north)

So this leaves us with
28.5+3.5+2+1.5-1-1.5-0.5+0.5 (for South Tyrol, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg and tiny dots scattered around Europe)
=33, kurwa

though, I might have meant that the population of germans outside P and B is greater than either one, which could still be borderline potentially true
"the population of Germans in Germany minus Prussia and Austrobavaria is more than in those two"
I frankly don't remember, it's what I get for sleeping for not sleeping before 12:30 am for 6 weeks in a row

A few comments:
I think Germans in Silesia would be closer to 2 than 1.5, Posen and S-H I have no idea though, so maybe those work out.
Anyway, it seems we actually now have got to less than what we previously had for the population of all Germans. And P and A-B still have more than half of that.
If you meant that it probably is true, but I'm nearly sure that would've also been the case OTL.
Anyway, you have no idea why you said what you said and are aware that it's wrong, I've been there done that too, let's go on.

A) Y'know that at least historically Switzerland wasn't even a confederation until '47, IIRC.
B) Sure.
C) Mhm.
D) Let me explain.
---------Me joking about Swiss being the most orderly of all possible germans ------->
.
.
.
.
.
--------------Your head------------------------------------------------------------------------>

You did make me re-read this example, though, so thanks.

A) Hm? Is there a subtle difference between Confederacy and Confederation?
D) True, MFS

A) I may have been tired and written it wasn't even a confederacy while meaning a federation, based on you writing a civil war between federalists and centralizers - me then point out that it wasn't even a federation at this point.
D) Indeed. Swiss are Germans on Steroids. So let me ask again? You vant to spread chaos? Vith zis country?

no sense is catalonia sicily claim, too many seazones

Am seazone, can confirm.

---

Both factions claimed they were the senior line, whereas here one is clearly junior. Apples and oranges.

both fruits
sorry

Again, regarding Austrobav, what are people calling it? I would have imagined that it would mostly be known as Bavaria, since it's a kingdom, which is more senior than Austria, an archduchy. It'd be like the Dukes of Normandy preferring to be called dukes rather than Kings of England (well, and Aquitaine and those other places)

Habsburg crown lands.
There. GG, pack up, I solved this.

---

both fruits
sorry

Again, regarding Austrobav, what are people calling it? I would have imagined that it would mostly be known as Bavaria, since it's a kingdom, which is more senior than Austria, an archduchy. It'd be like the Dukes of Normandy preferring to be called dukes rather than Kings of England (well, and Aquitaine and those other places)

I think the player that is working on it is actually calling it the Holy Roman Empire ;U;

But... But.... Napoleon and stuff.
Ah, fuck it, I'm a king and if it's still the HRE I'm an elector. They themselves are one too. The rest are mostly dead, I believe, so I get to de-emperor them. yay.

---

Lol ok, have fun telling that to the Concert of Europe.

Maybe you don't exist in a concert of Europe, and I hope you understand that a claim doesn't have to be pushed immediately, which is why i'm confused over your levels of butthurt.

Because a claim needs some sort of basis* and kryskov argues that yours has no basis, that it basically is bullshit.

* At least in order to be considered valid by the community of Great powers that is the concert of europe.
Also, both of you exist in the concert as little chess pieces, moved around by the powers greater than you.

---

1579 - Partition of Hohenzollern begins Swiss animosity and involvement in the region
1623 - Elevation of Hohenzollern-Hechingen disputed, causes further rivalry between Hohenzollerns and Swiss

---

kkk ta

Now you is my sphereling

Back off, bro.
(Seriously, their absolute queen is the Prussian king's daughter. I doubt they are in anybody else's sphere).

---

Now you is my sphereling

Actually I think I'm Prussia's baby

Literally.

---

Gib industry to Mali pl0x


And I've had similarly vivid dreams that make me go out and get something done... But they usually have to do with girls as opposed to mountain nations...

>implying getting girls is better than getting mountain nations

Anyway, I'm trying to do parties for the tagsatzung of Switzerland and it's proving hard. So far, I'm thinking something like
- Republican Party
- Liberal Party
- Democratic Party
- Catholic/Reformed(ist?) Party
- Secular Party
- Romansh Party
- Pan-German (or some variant thereof) Party
- Federalist/Confederal Party
- Urbane Party?
- Rural(ist?) Party?
- Conservative Party?

I think it's a tidbit early for a pan-german party. Also, I think that's quite a lot of parties, IIRC the tagsatzung as of now has 6 or so.
EDIT:

---

forgot to add this.

Or we could offer Louisiana to another member of your little coalition in return for destroying you.

1. Metagame lol
2. Columbia is your ally and our coalition members are the UK (who hate you), Prussia (who hates you) and Hesperia (who we are good buddies with)

We will be getting Louisiane, it depends on you how much more land you want to lose and at what cost.

Prussia actually isn't in the coalition, yet.
/EDIT

EDIT2:
Elepis, I'm quite sure Tel-Aviv hasn't been founded yet, at least historically. /EDIT

[Liecthenbourg]

About Cyprus? Whichever you prefer. I'd say at this point it's pretty well known that we want it, and we have already sent you a letter regarding Venice/Rum anyhow, so you'd be able to offer the sale of Cyprus to us, I'd say.

okay dockay, will do


to invade S. Sudan or Ethiopia....

I'll tell you what you can do.

Give me Cyprus instead.

[Alleniana]

Uh, well, I'm convinced, I just saw "At the beginning of the twentieth century, the fact that Silesians were part of the Polish nation was not questioned." and went with it.

I have no idea what this is in response to, but sure.

The German or not thereof nature of Silesia

These are all referring to the Grand Duchy which I said I'd annex...

Yes, they are. But re-reading what you wrote I now think it was actually referring to the province.
Also, Prussia doesn't lay claim to the province either. It'd nom (parts of) it if it were to (help) partition Belgium, but as such it does not lay claim to it and would not should it unify Germany.

I'm not sure what you interpreted or if what I said was clear enough, but basically what I meant is annexing the Grand Duchy of L, surrendering claims on the Province of L (and maybe some kind of population exchange between the two, Germans/Luxembourgers and French going between?) I don't think this arrangement would be troublesome to nationalists or prestige.

http://populstat.info/Europe/germanyc.htm 28,237,000 for the German Empire in 1834 - for 1835, let's assume 28.5mil
Areas with populations of Germans outside the German Empire are Austria, Liechtenstein, Bohemia (let's say ~1/3, rounded down), Switzerland, Luxembourg and those tiny dots scattered around Europe (probably less than IRL due to no Austrians in Hungary, but still probably kind of present) [I'm not sure if the German Empire figure includes Alsace-Lorraine or not, I assume it does, but anyway, the difference couldn't be more than a million)
Areas with populations of non-Germans inside the German Empire are Posen/Poznan, Silesia (I don't know as much as you do, I'll put it at 1/2 for now because it's in the middle and I have no idea), and Schleswig-Holstein
So, going through our German Empire-based shopping list

+ + +
http://populstat.info/Europe/luxembgc.htm 175,200 for Grand Duchy of Luxembourg in 1839 - for 1835, let's assume negligible
http://populstat.info/Europe/austriac.htm 3,476,500 for 1830, 3,649,700 for 1840 for modern Austria - for 1835, let's assume 3.5mil (yes yes South Tirol is missing but shush, assume negligible; it's only just 500k today)
http://populstat.info/Europe/czechrpc.htm 6,340,800 for 1840 - for 1835, let's assume 6mil, multiplied by 1/3 for German population = 2mil
I'm just going to assume Liechtenstein is negligible
http://populstat.info/Europe/switzerc.htm 2,188,000 for Switzerland in 1838, taking off the handful of non-German cantons, it's about 1.5mil (you can see the calculations I did for it in my app)
Tiny dots scattered around Europe... eh, let's use them as an excuse to round up

- - -
http://populstat.info/Europe/germanyr.htm 1,233,900 for Posen in 1841 - for 1835, let's assume 1mil
http://populstat.info/Europe/germanyr.htm 2,858,800 for Prussian Silesia in 1841 - for 1835, 1.5mil?
http://populstat.info/Europe/germanyr.htm 803,600 for Schleswig-Holstein in 1841 - for 1835, let's assume 0.5mil (rounded down because Danes in the north)

So this leaves us with
28.5+3.5+2+1.5-1-1.5-0.5+0.5 (for South Tyrol, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg and tiny dots scattered around Europe)
=33, kurwa

though, I might have meant that the population of germans outside P and B is greater than either one, which could still be borderline potentially true
"the population of Germans in Germany minus Prussia and Austrobavaria is more than in those two"
I frankly don't remember, it's what I get for sleeping for not sleeping before 12:30 am for 6 weeks in a row

A few comments:
I think Germans in Silesia would be closer to 2 than 1.5, Posen and S-H I have no idea though, so maybe those work out.
Anyway, it seems we actually now have got to less than what we previously had for the population of all Germans. And P and A-B still have more than half of that.
If you meant that it probably is true, but I'm nearly sure that would've also been the case OTL.
Anyway, you have no idea why you said what you said and are aware that it's wrong, I've been there done that too, let's go on.

Okey, in any case, we've got a good solid estimate now, as opposed to crazy conjecture before.

A) Hm? Is there a subtle difference between Confederacy and Confederation?
D) True, MFS

A) I may have been tired and written it wasn't even a confederacy while meaning a federation, based on you writing a civil war between federalists and centralizers - me then point out that it wasn't even a federation at this point.

Ah, alright.

D) Indeed. Swiss are Germans on Steroids. So let me ask again? You vant to spread chaos? Vith zis country?

Controlled chaos. Swiss chaos.
*insert the "o loving hate" Shakespeare contradictions passage here*

1579 - Partition of Hohenzollern begins Swiss animosity and involvement in the region
1623 - Elevation of Hohenzollern-Hechingen disputed, causes further rivalry between Hohenzollerns and Swiss

heh heh heh
But anyway, that's with the Swabian branch, who aren't even Protestant, so no worries.

Anyway, I'm trying to do parties for the tagsatzung of Switzerland and it's proving hard. So far, I'm thinking something like
- Republican Party
- Liberal Party
- Democratic Party
- Catholic/Reformed(ist?) Party
- Secular Party
- Romansh Party
- Pan-German (or some variant thereof) Party
- Federalist/Confederal Party
- Urbane Party?
- Rural(ist?) Party?
- Conservative Party?

I think it's a tidbit early for a pan-german party. Also, I think that's quite a lot of parties, IIRC the tagsatzung as of now has 6 or so.

They're all just ideas for parties, not all are making it in (I want to save some space for the stuffing 1848 will give, assuming we last that long)
But anyway, it's an open party list proportional representation, so parties will be relatively prolific compared to other political systems, certainly this isn't 2-party system

[The Jonathanian States]

I have no idea what this is in response to, but sure.

The German or not thereof nature of Silesia

Ah, yes.

Yes, they are. But re-reading what you wrote I now think it was actually referring to the province.
Also, Prussia doesn't lay claim to the province either. It'd nom (parts of) it if it were to (help) partition Belgium, but as such it does not lay claim to it and would not should it unify Germany.

I'm not sure what you interpreted or if what I said was clear enough, but basically what I meant is annexing the Grand Duchy of L, surrendering claims on the Province of L (and maybe some kind of population exchange between the two, Germans/Luxembourgers and French going between?) I don't think this arrangement would be troublesome to nationalists or prestige.

Mhm.
No, it would not be. Still means that in err.... 2/4(?) of your deals you offered German areas. TRATIOR.

A few comments:
I think Germans in Silesia would be closer to 2 than 1.5, Posen and S-H I have no idea though, so maybe those work out.
Anyway, it seems we actually now have got to less than what we previously had for the population of all Germans. And P and A-B still have more than half of that.
If you meant that it probably is true, but I'm nearly sure that would've also been the case OTL.
Anyway, you have no idea why you said what you said and are aware that it's wrong, I've been there done that too, let's go on.

Okey, in any case, we've got a good solid estimate now, as opposed to crazy conjecture before.

Sure.

A) I may have been tired and written it wasn't even a confederacy while meaning a federation, based on you writing a civil war between federalists and centralizers - me then point out that it wasn't even a federation at this point.

Ah, alright.

Yes.

D) Indeed. Swiss are Germans on Steroids. So let me ask again? You vant to spread chaos? Vith zis country?

Controlled chaos. Swiss chaos.
*insert the "o loving hate" Shakespeare contradictions passage here*

*relentlessly glares at Al*

1579 - Partition of Hohenzollern begins Swiss animosity and involvement in the region
1623 - Elevation of Hohenzollern-Hechingen disputed, causes further rivalry between Hohenzollerns and Swiss

heh heh heh
But anyway, that's with the Swabian branch, who aren't even Protestant, so no worries.

I think it's a tidbit early for a pan-german party. Also, I think that's quite a lot of parties, IIRC the tagsatzung as of now has 6 or so.

They're all just ideas for parties, not all are making it in (I want to save some space for the stuffing 1848 will give, assuming we last that long)
But anyway, it's an open party list proportional representation, so parties will be relatively prolific compared to other political systems, certainly this isn't 2-party system

Ah, I see. I think some of those might be a bit redundant or heavy overlapping, but all-in-all it seems fine.
(Say the Democratic and the Liberal and Republican parties seem like they'd advocate for more or less exactly the same).

[Liecthenbourg]

Am I accepted?

Can you post the most up to date version of your app?