Military Ground Vehicles of Your Nation [NO MECHS] Type 6

[Imperializt Russia]

Obvious Mark Eleven expy Lamoni, get with the times

Can I help it if I like the Centauro better?

Centauro can't carry eight dismounts!

[Ea90]

Can I help it if I like the Centauro better?

Centauro can't carry eight dismounts!

more to the point, the Centauro isn't british

[Lamoni]

Centauro can't carry eight dismounts!

more to the point, the Centauro isn't british

It might not be British, but there is a version of it that can carry 8 troops.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freccia_(infantry_fighting_vehicle)

[Kouralia]

more to the point, the Centauro isn't british

It might not be British, but there is a version of it that can carry 8 troops.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freccia_(infantry_fighting_vehicle)

fitted with the Hitfist Plus turret (an evolution of that used on the Dardo), which is armed with an Oerlikon KBA 25mm automatic cannon and carries 200 rounds of 25mm ammunition.

Why have 25mm when you could have a 105mm amphibious vehicle with room for eight troops?

[Ea90]

more to the point, the Centauro isn't british

It might not be British, but there is a version of it that can carry 8 troops.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freccia_(infantry_fighting_vehicle)

The point is that with the Centauro you can either have a 105mm cannon or carry 8 dismounts.
With the Mark 11 you can have both.

[Kouralia]

It might not be British, but there is a version of it that can carry 8 troops.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freccia_(infantry_fighting_vehicle)

The point is that with the Centauro you can either have a 105mm cannon or carry 8 dismounts.
With the Mark 11 you can have both.

And it can swim, I believe.

Of course, it is bloody massive and probably weak in the armour department, but hey-ho...

[Riysa]

Should I arm my NBC recon vehicles? I was thinking of something along the lines of a 57mm RWS.

[The Kievan People]

Should I arm my NBC recon vehicles? I was thinking of something along the lines of a 57mm RWS.

No need for a weapon that big.

[The Soodean Imperium]

Should I arm my NBC recon vehicles? I was thinking of something along the lines of a 57mm RWS.

The Soviets operated a lot of NBC Recon vehicles based on the BTR or BRDM chassis, which retained the 14.5mm KPVT + 7.62mm PKT turret, so some form of armament is desirable.

A 57mm RWS seems a little excessive IMO, though - when it comes to support vehicles like this, I tend to think along the lines of "oh no, a few enemy soldiers slipped through our forward screen and are headed our way!" rather than "hey, let's go trash that tank!"

[Riysa]

Hmm, so just a HMG? Then, 15.7mm RWS is it.

[Deutsche Demokratischer Volksstaat]

In this case, the exact same things.

The difference in this case is down to technology. For reasons of *science* it is much easier to create a large staring array in the MWIR band. All things being equal a staring sensor is preferred, because it collects more light in the same exposure time.

Generations of FLIRs are as follows:
Generation I: Low sensitivity LWIR linear detectors. <- All but extinct.
Generation II: High sensitivity LWIR linear detectors. <- Most military FLIRs up to the present day.
Generation III*: Large format MWIR staring detectors. <- Most commercial FLIRs, some military FLIRs.
Generation IV (III): Large format LWIR/MWIR staring detectors. <- Experimental military FLIRs.

*The US army did not adopt MWIR staring technology on a large scale, so in American terminology GEN III FLIRs are dual band staring detectors.

This is not a comprehensive catalogue of infrared detector technology though. Staring LWIR sensors now exist but are not as widespread as other technologies. Uncooled FLIRs are based on a different kind of detector technology than cooled FLIRs. Polarization sensitive FLIRs are excluded. So are SWIR detectors.

That's good to know - so dual wavelength FLIR is nothing outlandish in fact. I'm considering adding dual band FLIR on retractable masts for later batches of the KPz 72G. As far as I know, advantages of such FLIR over single band ones are the enhanced capability in clutter and increased resistance to IR countermeasures. Could it be realistically fielded as early as 2006?

On another note, circumstances permitting, I will be attending Singapore Airshow this year - does anyone here have something in mind that might specifically want photos or information of? I'd try to take a look eventually.

[Lydenburg]

Should I arm my NBC recon vehicles? I was thinking of something along the lines of a 57mm RWS.

No need for a weapon that big.

Well, there is an NBC version of the Cascavel, which carries a 90mm.

[Lydenburg]

(Image)

WiP, guess what it is.

Fuck my face. Is it recon, IFV, APC, or tank destroyer?

Be a good chap and stick something much more reasonable on top to allow for the eight dismounts, like mine:

[Kouralia]

(Image)

WiP, guess what it is.

Fuck my face. Is it recon, IFV, APC, or tank destroyer?

Be a good chap and stick something much more reasonable on top to allow for the eight dismounts, like mine:

See, now you're just implying it's unrealistic.

[Crookfur]

Sorry to be a pain, but does anyone know of any images of the Mark 11 in any form other than the 105mm fire-support version? If not then I'll just make it up as I go along.

not that i'm aware of, you could have a look at the related timoney mark V/vickers valkyr and timoney mark 8 series vehciles (a 4x4 apc and the taiwanese CM31 6x6 which IIRc shared an arse end with the mk11 as well as a very simialr front end in its intial prototype form)


of coruse the valkyr is a butch little 4x4:

[Lydenburg]

Fuck my face. Is it recon, IFV, APC, or tank destroyer?

Be a good chap and stick something much more reasonable on top to allow for the eight dismounts, like mine:

(Image)

See, now you're just implying it's unrealistic.

Unrealistic. That's a good one.

Does somebody else feel like reliving the rant on that ridiculous seating diagram?

[Imperializt Russia]

See, now you're just implying it's unrealistic.

Unrealistic. That's a good one.

Does somebody else feel like reliving the rant on that ridiculous seating diagram?

It would use neither the words rant nor ridiculous.

[Kouralia]

of coruse the valkyr is a butch little 4x4:

(Image)

Valkyr is cute.

Does somebody else feel like reliving the rant on that ridiculous seating diagram?

I dunno. Do you? I mean, you can sit here telling me to not use a 105mm gun on my Mk11 expies, and then in a few days time the Silverfin Guards Marine Commando armoured infantry battalions will still be using the Mark Eleven-expy.

I personally can't recall any form of rant.

[Lydenburg]

of coruse the valkyr is a butch little 4x4:

(Image)

Valkyr is cute.

Does somebody else feel like reliving the rant on that ridiculous seating diagram?

I dunno. Do you? I mean, you can sit here telling me to not use a 105mm gun on my Mk11 expies, and then in a few days time the Silverfin Guards Marine Commando armoured infantry battalions will still be using the Mark Eleven-expy.

I personally can't recall any form of rant.

I'm telling you not to double your 105mm version as an APC with all those dismounts as advertised by Vickers. The seating is indeed ridiculous.

What sort of gun do you have on the version beneath it on that image? Looks very much like the SIBMAS.

[Kouralia]

Valkyr is cute.


I dunno. Do you? I mean, you can sit here telling me to not use a 105mm gun on my Mk11 expies, and then in a few days time the Silverfin Guards Marine Commando armoured infantry battalions will still be using the Mark Eleven-expy.

I personally can't recall any form of rant.

I'm telling you not to double your 105mm version as an APC with all those dismounts as advertised by Vickers. The seating is indeed ridiculous.

What sort of gun do you have on the version beneath it on that image? Looks very much like the SIBMAS.

It's meant to be similar to the CTI-40, but my 40mm guns are huge.

[Imperializt Russia]

There's nothing that ridiculous about it.
Six dismounts in rear seating area, plus section 2ic in centre of vehicle who dismounts through (crew) side door and section commander in turret. Section command can command the entire section from the vehicle, or join his dismounts.

[The Soodean Imperium]

No comments, eh? Maybe if I post it again in COLOR!


(Click image for full size)

Description: Prior to the turn of the century, the Soodean Ground Forces operated two Main Battle Tanks: license-built T-64BVs in front-line units, and surplus T-62s in the reserves. In 1998, High Command began a modernization program that involved acquiring T-90s and assigning them to high-readiness units, progressively moving T-64s down to low-readiness formations and putting the obsolescent T-62s into storage. At first, this plan worked well, and the Kliment Design Bureau even acquired a production license for the T-90A. However, combat experience soon demonstrated that the T-90 was unable to stand up to the latest generation of Main Battle Tanks, and diplomatic pressures prevented the importing of the more advanced T-90MS.

Rather than attempting an indigenous T-90 upgrade program, the State laid down a new requirement for a "medium-weight MBT with good mobility, a bustle-mounted autoloader, and provision for the modular addition of armor and electronics upgrades in the future." Three prototypes were presented in response to this requirement. The first, a T-90 fitted with a T-84-style turret, was deemed too modest an improvement; the second, Project 504, was too expensive and mechanically complex (and actually broke down while doing runs on the field course, much to the horror of its watching designers). The third prototype - Project 505 - passed the tests and was accepted into service under the military designation "Su'Chong 6."

The original variant (seen here) was a fairly average vehicle in most respects. Its turret armor was relatively thin, its fire control and other electronics were rudimentary, and its crew compartment was spartan and uncomfortable. Its speed and maneuverability, on the other hand, were impressive, and its gun depression was better than that of the T-64 and T-90 which preceded it. Its main advantage, however, was the sheer simplicity of its design, which allowed for remarkably easy construction and maintenance. This advantage allowed the Soodean Ground Forces to build and maintain large numbers of vehicles at an affordable cost, and gave High Command the ability to rush large numbers of base-versions into production if an enemy threatened to invade.

Later vehicles in the Su-Chong 6 series would add side skirts, external storage bins, passive reactive armor, and a greatly improved targeting system. These upgrades could be easily retrofitted onto existing base vehicles, and while the new production cost increased, the vehicle's mechanical base kept its reputation for Soodean simplicity and reliability.

Designation:
- Development Designation: Project 505
- Military Designation: Su'Chong 6 Van'gvard
(Soodean Armor 6, Vanguard)

New Production Cost, Base version: $3.4 mn USD

Crew: 3 (Gunner, Driver, Commander)

Dimensions:
Length, Gun Forward: 10.01 m
Length, Hull Only: 7.35 m

Height, Cupola Roof: 2.31 m
Height, inc. HMG: 2.68 m
Height, Chassis: 1.48 m

Ground Clearance: 0.38 m (inc. light dozer blade)

Weight: 48 tons

Armament:
Main Armament: 125mm 52.5-calibre solid propellant smoothbore cannon, fitted with thermal sleeve and fume extractor
- Effective Range:
- Penetration, APFSDS: 1050mm
- Penetration, HEAT: 860mm
- Loader: Bustle-mounted autoloader with blowout panels, holds 24 rounds, loads gun at 0^o elevation
- Ammunition: 36 rounds (24 in autoloader, 12 in internal storage)
- Elevation: -9 to +17 degrees

Secondary Armament: 12.7mm NSVT Heavy Machinegun on Commander's cupola, with provision for remote or manual fire
- Traverse: -9 to +75 degrees
- Ammunition: 300 rounds (100 ready, 200 in external stores)

Co-Axial Armament: 7.62mm PKT General-Purpose Machinegun to right of main gun
- Ammunition: 800 rounds (100 ready, 700 in internal stores)

Powerplant: 14-cylinder diesel engine with multi-fuel capability
- Power: 1300 hp (27.1 hp/ton)
- Max speed, onroad: 75 km/h (governed)
- Max speed, offroad: 52 km/h
- Operational Range, internal fuel: 620 km
- Operational Range, external drums: 840 km

Protection: Hardened steel armor with built-in composite panels and internal spall liner
Estimated Average Armor Ratings: (KE/CE)
- Glacis Plate: 1100mm/975mm
- Lower Hull Front: 275mm/350mm
- Sides: 175mm/225mm
- Turret front: 650mm/850mm
- Turret sides: 200mm/225mm
- Turret roof: 250mm/200mm

[Questers]

bustle is v. small for an autoloader.

[The Torogian Collective]

In regards to the Avrocar, is it a ground vehicle or an air vehicle?

[Chedastan]

In regards to the Avrocar, is it a ground vehicle or an air vehicle?

(Image)

A low-flying hover vehicle?