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Military Ground Vehicles of Your Nation [NO MECHS] Type 6

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Who will OP the next MGVoYN[NM] thread?

Imperializt Russia
39
25%
Anemos Major
52
33%
Questers
8
5%
Dragomere
21
13%
Dostanuot Loj
5
3%
The Kievan People
22
14%
Oaledonia
12
8%
 
Total votes : 159

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Oaledonia
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Founded: Mar 17, 2013
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Postby Oaledonia » Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:32 am

New-Found Land wrote:Critique please.

The Royal Newfoundland Tank Regiment (RNTR) is an administrative regiment to tank battalions in similar fashion to the infantry. There are six tank battalions in the regiment, plus the regimental school. All battalions of the RNTR are regular force.

1RNTR through to 5RNTR are all equipped with the main battle tank of Newfoundland, an indigenous tank design with assistance from the British firm Vickers that entered service in 1982. 6RNTR is different as it consists of four companies for the Parachute Brigade, two tank companies with Vickers VFM-5 light tanks and two companies of Leonidas-2 APCs from Greece.

For history the MBT replaced the M-41 walker bulldog which entered service in the early 1960s. The M-41 replaced the British Comet which entered service in 1946. The second world war was a mish-mash of British and american tanks.

The RNTR was formed in 1923 as "Heavy section, first battalion, Royal Newfoundland Regiment" with nine surplus British Whippet tanks. Another nine would be bought in 1928 when the unit was dissolved and reformed as the newfoundland tank regiment. Another twelve Whippets and eleven Mark V tanks would be bought in 1930, and this would form the basis of four "battalions" of the tank regiment until the outbreak of hostilities in Europe in 1939. The unit would send one battalion to Europe in 1940, reequipped with Matild 2 infantry tanks. Upon return in 1945 the battalion would be re-counted in addition to the existing battalions still using the Great War vintage tanks. These would be univedsLly replaced starting in 1946 with the British Comet. The vehicles retired would go on to form the basis of the three reserve tank regiments inducted in 1948. The last Mark V was withdrawn from service in a reserve regiment in 1974 along with the last Whippet when both vehicles were ceremoniously driven the length of Water Street to the National War Memorial before being donated to the Dominion War Museum in St.John's. The last Matilda would follow in 1975 as part of the 30th anniversary of the second world war.

When the Dominion began domestic production of a tank in 1982 it was intended to replace the mix of obsolete tanks used by the reserve units with a proper modern tank in numbers that could one day use. The last reserve regiment transitiond from their M-41 light tanks to the MBT in 1995, and it has been the sole tank outside of 6RNTR ever since.

In terms of land forces. There are two Armoured Brigades, formed of two tanks battalions and one mechanized infantry battalions each. One mechanized brigade of one tank battalion and two mechanized infantry battalions. And the Parachute Brigade which is both para battalions plus one tank battalion, 6RNTR. They all have support elements and artillery I have not listed.

Capitalize American.
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The Kievan People
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Postby The Kievan People » Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:10 am

Riysa wrote:I'd say the T-84 is slightly worse than the T-90, particularly in terms of protection (steel and metal alloy with rubber instead of ceramics). It weights about 1.5 tons less than the T-90, at 46 tons. Although, its got a better autoloader in terms of safety.

IMO, just go with the T-90 - its as common as dirt, but its good.

In terms of transport, the An-124 has a payload cap of about 150 tons, so you'd be looking at 3 tanks with some extra room for ammo and supplies.


The T-90's armor is not ceramic either. It uses (wait for it!) a stack of metal and rubber bulging plates.
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Imperializt Russia
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:19 am

Luepola wrote:
Irvadistan wrote:The Irvadi Islamic Revolutionary Army operates a number of Armoured vehicles.

When it comes to Tanks, The Army continues to operate a small number of World War 2 era T-34/85's. Primarily as an anti-infantry platform. It can be seen operating alongside Militia and Infantry units during struggles with rebel forces in Irvadistan.

The most numerous main battle tanks in Irvadi service are T-54 and its later developments. The Army operates around 1000 T-54B, T-55, T-55A Type 59 and Type 69 Tanks. These tanks form the backbone of armoured units in the Army. They are supplemented in service by 154 ex-Soviet T-62's. There are also about 150 Light tanks in service, of PT-76, Type 63 (tank) and Type 62 design. 29 T-72M's are part of an "Elite" tank squadron for defending the Presidential Palace

Armoured personnel carriers operated by the Army include wheeled BTR-40, BTR-152 and BTR-60, alongside tracked BTR-50 and Type 63 APC's. The only type of Infantry fighting vehicle used by the Army is the BMP-1, which is becoming increasingly rare due to high losses at the hands of rebel forces. BDRM-1 patrol cars are also in service.

The Army has very limited access to self-propelled artillery, Only models in service are 2S1 122mm guns, BM-21 and Katyusha Rocket Launchers, but does use a number of Towed Artillery, mostly of world war 2 and early post war design, including A-19, M-30, D-74, D-30, D-20, ML-20, and D-1 designs. As well as a large number of Soviet world war 2 Mortars. There are also BM-14 towed Rocket launchers in service.

Anti-tank ability is limited to AT-3 Sagger Missiles, SPG-9 Recoiless Rifles, and T-12, BS-3, D-48 and ZiS-2 Anti-tank field guns.

The only self-propelled anti-aircraft gun in service is the ZSU 57-2. Only around 50 of these are in service. The most common air defence guns are ZPU-2 and ZPU-4's, sometimes mounted on trucks to improve their mobility. Strela-2 MANPAD's are the only missiles in service. There is also 37mm 61-K and 57mm S-60 AIr Defence autocannons in service.

There is almost no standardization when it comes to logistics. Though some army units use 50's and 60's era Soviet trucks, many simply reply on repurposed civilian models.


It seems you have pretty much everything covered, at least from my limited, unenlightened view. I would suggest the MT-LB as an amphibious APC if you need one.

I would say look into auxiliary/supporting units such as ARVs, Engineering Vehicles, minelayers, etc if you wanted to. I have a funny feeling that that's what the experts (Anemos, Samozy, etc) are going to say, although I really wouldn't know.

I lay no claim to expert opinion! :P

A point should be made that if he has "no standardisation" and is limited to the best of the early Cold War, then engineering vehicles and ARVs and dedicated minelaying vehicles will be either in small numbers or very old.
From that line, it would seem that his best option for recovering tanks would be to repurpose tank hulls, or leave them where they fall.
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Great Slavyaniya
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Founded: Mar 31, 2013
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Postby Great Slavyaniya » Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:38 am

Image
O-18 "Ignika" medium tank
Predecesor of the Bagatur, this tank combines fire power, mobility and armour.
Crew: 3 (commander, driver, gunner)
Lenght: 9.40m (gun foreward-10.45m)
Width: 3.80m
Height: 3.40m
Weight: 68t
Armour and armament:
Armour: classified
Armament: 150mm ETC gun; 38 rounds
Secondary armament:
x1 40mm Anti-Air machinegun

Mobility:
Power plant: 2000hp engine
Suspention: hybrid active hydropneumatic/torsion bar
Road speed: 65 km/h
Off-road speed: 56 km/h
Range:700+ kilometres

Image
VA c140M5V1 Bagatur medium tank
Bagatur is the one of the new generations of main battle tanks of Great Slavyaniya. After purchasing some lyran tanks, our tanks weren't able to penetrate their frontal hull and turret armour. Lyran tanks such as "Wolfhound" oneshoted our VA and DiL series on the field testings. This proved the need of a generation of main battle tanks that could fight against modern NS Super tanks. After purchasing and testing some other NS tanks such as T-10, the military programme established a new project for a tank. This led to the Bagatur.
Bagatur V1 features a powerful 140mm gun that could penetrate almost any tank and has improved anti-infatry and AA machineguns. Bagatur has a new protection sistem "KAKTUS", which works as the russian "ARENA" protection sistem. Here are the basic stats of Bagatur:
Crew: 3 (commander, driver, gunner)
Lenght: 9.50m (gun foreward-11.45m)
Width: 3.90m
Height: 3.48m
Weight: 70t
Armour and armament:
Armour: classified
Armament: 140mm ETC gun; 42 rounds
Secondary armament:
x2 Anti-Air miniguns
x1 20mm anti-infantry or lightly-armoured vehicles machineguns

Mobility:
Power plant: 2010hp engine
Suspention: hybrid active hydropneumatic/torsion bar
Road speed: 68 km/h
Off-road speed: 50 km/h
Range:740+ kilometres
Image
MoV-180-2 with winter camo and 7 road wheels (Great Slavyaniya variant)
3D preview thanks to Stahn- Image
Davidan variant with 8 road wheels
MoV-180-2 Hydraxon super-heavy breaktrough tank
This tank is designed around an artillery gun. It's 180mm reloads slow, so that means it could use the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musket#Tactics. This tank could be used in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzerkeil like the german Tiger.
Crew: 3 (commander, driver, gunner)
Lenght: 11m (gun foreward-12.50m)
Width: 4m
Height: 3.70m
Weight: 190t
Armour and armament:
Armour: classified
Armament: 180mm ETC gun; 24 rounds

Mobility:
Power plant: 2500hp engine
Suspention: hybrid active hydropneumatic/torsion bar
Road speed: 34 km/h
Off-road speed: 13.5 km/h
Range:400+ kilometres
Last edited by Great Slavyaniya on Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:52 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Imperializt Russia
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:44 am

What are you hoping to achieve with an Electro-Thermal Chemical 180mm gun that you wouldn't achieve with a 155mm artillery piece?
At 190t, the only thing this will be breaking through will be the ground and the bridge.

Why on earth are you using musketry tactics for a 180mm ETC cannon "breakthrough" tank?
Really, why?
Last edited by Imperializt Russia on Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Lamoni
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Postby Lamoni » Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:48 am

Also, mini-guns are a bad idea for tank use. They eat up ammo far to fast for them to be especially useful. We're talking SECONDS of fire here.
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Great Slavyaniya
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Postby Great Slavyaniya » Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:51 am

Imperializt Russia wrote:What are you hoping to achieve with an Electro-Thermal Chemical 180mm gun that you wouldn't achieve with a 155mm artillery piece?
At 190t, the only thing this will be breaking through will be the ground and the bridge.

I forgot to mention the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzerkeil and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musket#Tactics.
Yea, it has the Maus problems, but there are always solutions to these problems like tank snorkels.

Proud founder of Xenox

I like tanks.
My nation is: Class X14: Tier 4, Type II, Superpower.
My nation doesn't strictly follow NS stats.
My nation is PMT/MT/early FT.
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Слава на Велика Славяния!
Hail Great Slavyaniya!
Viva la Slavica!
RPs:
The Private Communists vs Bourgeois braggarts: WON
Decria-anarchists war: WON
Makovik war of independence: DRAW I must note that the RP died, but it was the most interesting one yet for me.
The Second Red Crusade: DRAW(RP died)
Rossio-Moldovoskan War: WON (Rostrog surrendered)
The Coming Storm...Thread died
The Missed Shot: WON
The Nuclear Question: ???
SATO vs NATO: WON (SATO dissolved)

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Welgium
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Founded: May 08, 2013
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Postby Welgium » Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:59 am

Awesome stuff, Great Slavyaniya.:) Al heil to the strongest nation in our region by far!
My other nations are:

The Democratic republic of Davida, Stahn, Aglinean and Impovria.

Just so you know.

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Imperializt Russia
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Sun Feb 02, 2014 4:02 am

Great Slavyaniya wrote:
Imperializt Russia wrote:What are you hoping to achieve with an Electro-Thermal Chemical 180mm gun that you wouldn't achieve with a 155mm artillery piece?
At 190t, the only thing this will be breaking through will be the ground and the bridge.

I forgot to mention the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzerkeil and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musket#Tactics.
Yea, it has the Maus problems, but there are always solutions to these problems like tank snorkels.

Why do you think musketry tactics are useful for breakthrough tanks? It's almost completely incompatible with combined arms tactics such as panzerkeil.

"Fit a snorkel" is not the correct approach to the issues posed by incredibly heavy tanks.
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Great Slavyaniya
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Postby Great Slavyaniya » Sun Feb 02, 2014 4:04 am

Imperializt Russia wrote:What are you hoping to achieve with an Electro-Thermal Chemical 180mm gun that you wouldn't achieve with a 155mm artillery piece?
At 190t, the only thing this will be breaking through will be the ground and the bridge.

Why on earth are you using musketry tactics for a 180mm ETC cannon "breakthrough" tank?
Really, why?

First, let me point out to you this thing that is written: This tactic was pioneered by Maurice of Nassau, who taught it to Dutch troops in the Eighty Years' War. It was originally known as the countermarch, where troops were arranged in lines up to twelve, but more usually eight or six deep. After the front rank fired it would file away to the rear to reload. Gustavus Adolphus of Sweden made two important advances in the use of this tactic. First, he simplified and standardized reloading, then drilled his musketeers ceaselessly until they reloaded in action by reflex, without becoming distracted. Second, he pioneered the use of the volley or "salvo" as an offensive tactic for Swedish infantry in the Thirty Years' War.
Get it now? And second, the 180mm gun could be demounted and a smaller and faster gun could take it's place.

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Слава на Велика Славяния!
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RPs:
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Decria-anarchists war: WON
Makovik war of independence: DRAW I must note that the RP died, but it was the most interesting one yet for me.
The Second Red Crusade: DRAW(RP died)
Rossio-Moldovoskan War: WON (Rostrog surrendered)
The Coming Storm...Thread died
The Missed Shot: WON
The Nuclear Question: ???
SATO vs NATO: WON (SATO dissolved)

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Imperializt Russia
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Sun Feb 02, 2014 4:09 am

Like maybe a 155mm artillery piece, which would seem to somehow offer a greater rate of fire and not adapting a centuries-old musketry tactic and trying to apply it to combined arms warfare?
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Great Slavyaniya
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Postby Great Slavyaniya » Sun Feb 02, 2014 4:12 am

Imperializt Russia wrote:Like maybe a 155mm artillery piece, which would seem to somehow offer a greater rate of fire and not adapting a centuries-old musketry tactic and trying to apply it to combined arms warfare?

Something like that, and by the way as I told before, MoV-180-2 is based around an artillery gun, just like the german Tiger is.

Proud founder of Xenox

I like tanks.
My nation is: Class X14: Tier 4, Type II, Superpower.
My nation doesn't strictly follow NS stats.
My nation is PMT/MT/early FT.
1 rublev=0.75N$

Слава на Велика Славяния!
Hail Great Slavyaniya!
Viva la Slavica!
RPs:
The Private Communists vs Bourgeois braggarts: WON
Decria-anarchists war: WON
Makovik war of independence: DRAW I must note that the RP died, but it was the most interesting one yet for me.
The Second Red Crusade: DRAW(RP died)
Rossio-Moldovoskan War: WON (Rostrog surrendered)
The Coming Storm...Thread died
The Missed Shot: WON
The Nuclear Question: ???
SATO vs NATO: WON (SATO dissolved)

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Imperializt Russia
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Sun Feb 02, 2014 4:17 am

Great Slavyaniya wrote:
Imperializt Russia wrote:Like maybe a 155mm artillery piece, which would seem to somehow offer a greater rate of fire and not adapting a centuries-old musketry tactic and trying to apply it to combined arms warfare?

Something like that, and by the way as I told before, MoV-180-2 is based around an artillery gun, just like the german Tiger is.

In the days when artillery pieces were significantly smaller than today's, and even smaller than today's tank rounds.
It's not an especially valid comparison.
Last edited by Imperializt Russia on Sun Feb 02, 2014 4:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Great Slavyaniya
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Postby Great Slavyaniya » Sun Feb 02, 2014 4:21 am

Imperializt Russia wrote:
Great Slavyaniya wrote:Something like that, and by the way as I told before, MoV-180-2 is based around an artillery gun, just like the german Tiger is.

In the days when artillery pieces were significantly smaller than today's, and even smaller than today's tank rounds.
It's not an especially valid comparison.

Well, this is NationStates. And I have something like Hitler's ''obsession'' with big guns and tanks and etc.

Proud founder of Xenox

I like tanks.
My nation is: Class X14: Tier 4, Type II, Superpower.
My nation doesn't strictly follow NS stats.
My nation is PMT/MT/early FT.
1 rublev=0.75N$

Слава на Велика Славяния!
Hail Great Slavyaniya!
Viva la Slavica!
RPs:
The Private Communists vs Bourgeois braggarts: WON
Decria-anarchists war: WON
Makovik war of independence: DRAW I must note that the RP died, but it was the most interesting one yet for me.
The Second Red Crusade: DRAW(RP died)
Rossio-Moldovoskan War: WON (Rostrog surrendered)
The Coming Storm...Thread died
The Missed Shot: WON
The Nuclear Question: ???
SATO vs NATO: WON (SATO dissolved)

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Welgium
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Postby Welgium » Sun Feb 02, 2014 4:23 am

Like many things at that time the countermarch tactic was actually a throwback to ancient times. At the time of Maurice of Nassau this tactic was used mainly to compensate for the low accuracy and rate of fire of the firearms of the period.

I see the panzerkeil formation also as a return to ancient tactics. It reminds me of the phalanx mixed with the bullhead charge/formation of the Zulu's.

In the case of the panzerkeil you would have a diverse group of armored vehicles which have very different levels of firepower, rate of fire and armor protection. Using fixed formations you could have these differences work to each others strengths.
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Imperializt Russia
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Sun Feb 02, 2014 4:29 am

Countermarch, especially when applied to heavy tanks, appears to force you to give up any and all momentum your force has. It also seems incompatible with an armoured spearhead charge such as panzerkeil. The fact that you feel Countermarch is required because these weapons take such a long time to reload implies something impossibly long like several minutes.

In any case, what it forces you to do is stop moving forwards and instead just use firepower.
This is what you should be using divisional tube and rocket artillery for, and allowing battle tanks to simply run in at the enemy and charge through their lines. Flanking units of more tanks or mechanised infantry (probably depending on what kind of a unit you're assaulting) should go around this unit being engaged, and then either strike it from its flank or strike its rear area units in depth.

The problem is that a 180mm piece probably doesn't offer that much. If you're using it for AT work (which I gather from the use of ETC), then a 155 will do everything you need and more. ETC also isn't particularly necessary for AT work.
If it really is hampering you to this impressive degree, an autoloaded 155mm gun will significantly improve the capabilities of the vehicle. Cut about a hundred tons of weight as well, and it will be strategically mobile and tactically capable.
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Postby Registug » Sun Feb 02, 2014 4:36 am

Tanks should act more like cavalry than mobile direct fire cannons.
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Welgium
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Postby Welgium » Sun Feb 02, 2014 4:41 am

What you say obviously makes a lot of sense but if you think that the countermarch implies that the unit does not more forward you would be mistaken. It can be used both while moving forward (the musketeer that has just fired his gun would be moving backwards but the musketeers behind him would move in front of him making the whole formation move forwards) standing still in a defensive position (they would both move) and retreating (the reverse of the assault :D )

I am pretty sure that the intent was not a full application of this tactic but rather an example of fighting in formation that is arranged to compensate for any weaknesses.

Panzerkeil would not be possible with armored units using only main battle tanks of (close to) the same specifications.

They still attack in "wedge" formations but as far as I know they don't mix vehicle types anymore like the Nazis did.

Nowadays most armored engagements are between forces of very different capabilities. In the real world their are also no NS-supertanks to deal with.
Last edited by Welgium on Sun Feb 02, 2014 4:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Democratic republic of Davida, Stahn, Aglinean and Impovria.

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Postby Imperializt Russia » Sun Feb 02, 2014 4:55 am

In order to have the fired piece move rearwards after firing would require a very narrow push of just a few vehicles abreast (albeit very deep for an entire formation), otherwise manoeuvring to do so would become impossible. This makes it incredibly easy for your opponent to focus his firepower on the forward few vehicles, block the field and send the motion into disarray.

Compare this with a much less stacked, but incredibly wide, front posed by a tank formation in a conventional layout over several hundred metres and the enemy has to spread his firepower out. The destruction or disabling of some vehicles poses little or no obstacle to the vehicles behind it in this format because they have the room to move.

Why we don't see "breakthrough" tanks today is probably due to the enormous capability improvements that supports such as artillery and air power have seen in recent decades, in their firepower, accuracy, range and response time and the overall capability of a main battle tank.
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Postby Questers » Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:01 am

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Welgium
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Postby Welgium » Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:14 am

I don't think the countermarch tactic would apply to MT or PMT tactics anyway. Not while engaging a tank force.

The anti tank weapons being used are effective at such long ranges that would make the super heavy tank being a couple of meters behind the front line insignificant.

I also thought of this tank as being extremely well protected. Tank protection levels and firepower have been competing against each other for the top position ever since tank on tank warfare. During some periods the idea of being able to give a tank the protection level needed against anti tank weapons has been thrown out of the window but nowadays we see a lot of interesting developments that could make the idea valid again.

It has been happening for a while now anyway, with the new generation of MBT's of modern nations that are almost impervious against the inferior tanks used by the latest enemies of the so called western free world.

A tank battle between two powers of roughly equal force and capabilities would be very different from a coalition of the strongest and most advanced nations of the world against some second rate oil state that has no truly modern and capable tanks of their own.
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Great Slavyaniya
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Postby Great Slavyaniya » Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:26 am

Also nowadays "tank battles", like Dessert Storm, M1A2 was fightning monkey models T-72 and T-55 and had aerial support. This isn't for the tanks anymore, but for the air supremacy.

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Anemos Major
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Founded: Jun 01, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Anemos Major » Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:45 am

Christ almighty, is somebody proposing countermarch as a solution to the superheavy tank conundrum? Truly, the Wiki-age is a frightening one indeed.

Not sure if this has been pointed out, but any form of countermarch requires you to mass your superheavy tank forces in a single and particular engagement. Without even considering the impracticality of doctrinally requiring your tanks to retreat in the face of an active engagement, or the obvious issues related to a breakthrough attempt led by tanks that move at the speed of a handicapped snail, that sort of massing would lead to two things - it would allow your enemy to circumvent your heavy forces with their superior mobility and the conspicuous lack of heavy 'breakthrough' tanks elsewhere and engage in deep battle before you can get anywhere, or slaughter your big, expensive tanks with everything between SADARMs and air support. Static musketry tactics from the battlefields of yore are entirely inapplicable to a battlefield where the armoured assets you're facing aren't lined up nicely in front of you.

And Panzerkeil fronted by incredibly slow tanks in the age of ATGMs is essentially a breakthrough with a speed limit and a 'hit me' sign plastered to it.

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:49 am

Hmm, my 16 ton IIR guided bomb for a prestige project seems to have finally found a valid target. :3
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New Vihenia
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Postby New Vihenia » Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:51 am

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:Hmm, my 16 ton IIR guided bomb for a prestige project seems to have finally found a valid target. :3


what a waste :3
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