Military Ground Vehicles of Your Nation [NO MECHS] Type 6

[United States of PA]

M8H Li Toneur Medium Tank

Designation:
Numerical Designation: M8H Block 3
Name: Li Toneur (Thunder)

Key Data:
Crew: 3 (Commander, Gunner, Driver)
Designer: Pittsburgh Heavy Industries
Cost: A fuckload?

Dimensions:
Length:
- Hull: 8.1m
- Gun forwards: 11.2m
Height:
- Turret roof: 2.6m
- Incl. RWS: 3m???????
Width:
- Hull: 3.4m
- w/ Slat Armor add-on: 4.1m
Weight:
- Base combat: 66 tonnes?????
- w/ Armor Add-ons: 74 tonnes

Propulsion:
Engine: 12 Cylinder Opposed Piston Multifuel Diesel
Power: 2200bhp
Power/Weight ratio: 29.73 hp/tonne @ 74 tonnes
Transmission: 8forward, 2 reverse
Suspension: In-Arm Active Controlled Hydropneumatic

Performance:
Speed:
- Road: ~70km/h
- Reverse (road): ~40km/h
- Cross-country: ~50km/h
Operational Range: 500km

Armament:
Main Armament: L/50 140mm Rifled
- Ammunition: 36
- Elevation: -8/+16
- Elevation rate: 30 degrees/sec
- Traverse: 360 degrees
- Traverse rate: 50 degrees/sec
Coaxial station (left):
- Caliber: 35x228mm/50mm Supershot
- Ammunition:200 rounds
Fire Control: Automatic Fire suppression

Protection:
Armour: Appalachia Armor
- Base: Multi-Layer Composite (IRHA with Depleted Uranium and Ceramic Inserts)
- Forward Applique: ERA Blocks & Alternatives
- Side Applique: Slat Armor, ERA Blocks & Alternatives, IRHA Armored Skirts
- Additional Armour: Roof mounted NERA & other non-explosive alternatives
NBC: Collective and overpressure protection, compartmentalised auxiliary systems, full vehicular climate control, mast-mounted environmental detector (biological/chemical agents and gamma radiation), EMP hardening
Fire: Pentafluoroethane, automatic (crew compartment), Halon 1301 extinguishing/foam fuel tank self-sealing suite (engine block)
Smoke: 2x 8-barrel, 2x 4-barrel 3-in (76mm) multiple role dischargers, one of each on each turret side, variable autocue, diesel injection into engine exhausts

Sensors:
Primary Gunnery Sight: 1x-30x Primary Gunners sight (1x, 3x, 10x, 15x variable zoom with digital enhancement to 30x) with Thermal & Night Vision capacity
- Laser rangefinder: Eye safe pulsed Laser
- Gunnery aids: Stabilised laser illuminated 3CCD range-gated camera, roof-mounted crosswind sensor, integral muzzle reference sensor
Commander's Independent Sight: 1x-10x Variable zoom sight, fully stabilized, built in FLIR & Night Vision built into RWS
Elevated Optronics Mast: 1x-60x zoom (1x, 5x, 10x, 20x, 25x, 50x)
Additional sensors/sights:
- Driver: 180 degree viewing ports, Cameras at back corners for reversing

Communications/Networking:
Communications Management:
Radio:
Networking:
Battle Management:
Protection:

History

The M8H Block III Li Toneur medium tank was originally conceived as a alternative to the originally planned and temporarily adopted Block II M8P. However following adoption into service it was realized that the M8P had significant problems in the electronics, basic turret design and other areas. Following this it was decided after limited use by the three brigades that received that it was far to maintenance heavy to be of effect in a actual conflict, resulting in its suspension of production after roughly 360 vehicles were produced. The M8H Block III was introduced as a base of concept shortly thereafter as the true replacement to the Block I while the produced M8Ps remained in active duty with various National Guard units, far from the frontlines.

Armament

Primary Armament

The primary armament of the M8H comprises of a 140mm Rifled cannon, designed to be used extensively, at least initially with slip rings and High Explosive Anti-Tank (HEAT) rounds. Mid design however, the Pennsylvanian Armed Forces made a significant departure from previous practice, adopting a Armor Piercing Fin Stabilized Discarding Sabot (APFSDS) as the primary unguided anti-tank round in use, relegating existing stocks of HEAT rounds to other roles. The 140mm gun requires the use of slip rings to reduce the effect of round spin on rounds such as APFSDS and HEAT, while retaining the accuracy needed for use of unguided rounds successfully within Pennsylvanian doctrine (~3-4,000m).

The main gun is auto fed using a Compact bustle autoloader. The autoloader is capable of loading up to 36 rounds for the cannon (((((Insert possible extra hull storage here))))) with the ability to load a round roughly every 6 seconds. All rounds are of two piece nature, intended to be loaded from inside the tank. Despite this the autoloader loads each round as one piece, using a piston to slide the round out of storage onto a arm which than aligns itself with the breech, before having the round loading using another piston.

Secondary Armament

The M8H utilises a secondary armament of a Bushmaster III Autocannon, capable of firing either a 35x228mm round or a 50mm Supershot round, depending on how the autocannon setup. This autocannon is able to be reloaded through the blowout panels located on the outside of the vehicle or through the bulkhead on the inside in the crew compartment.

Just as a note, the odd sizing/bolding in what i have of the writeup is essentially notes to myself for the future to think those parts through more.

Other things to ponder that i would like input on.

-- Gunner by driver seating in the front ; Is it possible/how much width might i need?
-- If possible, how easy/hard would it be to theoretically isolate the commander on the right side of the turret from the autoloader assembly using a sizable enough bulkhead to prevent a round cookoff while being loaded from killing the crew?Blowout panels obviously will be included.
-- Anyone know how AMX-30 reloaded its coaxial 20mm cannon? Beltfeed or no?

Other suggestions obv. welcome.

And the rifled gun stays, before anyone says anything

[Kalumba]

Factory new Shumba
http://i.imgur.com/eeEm547.png

Now onto the combat ready version. Any changes I need to make before I continue?

[The Akasha Colony]

The Empire currently yields the ninth generation M2A5 Greatsword Main Battle Tank as it's primary armored vehicle.

M2A5 Greatsword Main Battle Tank

(Image)
An M2A5 with most of it's weapons stripped.

Crew:
3 (Driver, Gunner, Technician/Auxiliary gunner), 4 (including commander if tank is platoon head)
Passengers:
Two C-900 Tank Hunter Drones
Main Armament:
1x Collins C55 125mm Railcannon
Secondary Armament:
1x 20mm Bofors Autocannon
Additional Armements:
1x Orsweck X9 Plasma Scattergun
2x Automated Gordon-Howe .50 gauss HMG
1x XC-I 7.62 Coaxial Gun
1x Vindication 12.7mm mingun turret
1x FMG-6 Automated TOW AA system
1x L-99 Automated 40mm Grenade Launcher
Armor:
Lars Mk.1 Electro-Reactive plates
Orwell Nano-Compsite Armor
Nano-Reactive Panels
Liquid Kevlar plates
Black Widow active camouflage mesh
Hallot Active Defense Energy Shield, or, HADES system
Engine:
Harkness-AC88 Liquid-cooled hydrogen-injected internal combustion engine (2,000 hp)
Max Speed:
75 mph (on-road)
70 mph (off-road)
40 mph (off-road; unfavorable conditions)
20 mph (amphibious)
Height:
7 feet
Width:
12 feet
Length:
30 feet (including gun)
Produced:
2262-present


A ninth generation MBT, the M2 Greatsword is considered one of the most effective tanks on the planet, and Frenkish armored brigades take great pride in their machines. It replaced the eighth generation V4A1 Mongoose MBT just before the 10 Years War. The Greatsword is designed with crew comfort and quick battlefield dominance in mind. It also has a plethora of countermeasures, such as plasma shielding, TROPHY, counter-missile laser weapons, and active camouflage provided by the Black Widow armor attachment. The main gun can also use thermal sensors to automate itself, but most gunners prefer to keep the main gun under their control. However, the high maintenance required for it's gun is a bit problematic, but most consider the pros to be superior to the cons. It's hydrogen-fueled ICE gives it a very long operational range, high-horsepower engine, and the hydrogen fuel source is highly renewable. In fact, all Greatswords feature a "fuel converter" which can turn any form of water the crew can collect (be it rainwater, ocean saltwater, anything) into usable fuel for the tank. The Greatsword even has it's own AI system, as opposed to the databoy-based ones in most other vehicles. This AI, aside from the obvious advantages in communications, automation, and management, allows the crew to link up with nearby UAVs or UGVs, allowing them to be controlled or given a direct surveillance feed from the safety of the turret by the technician. Some models also hold two C-9000 tank hunter units, deployed out of a bottom hatch.

(Image)
Top view

So you need no fewer than seven types of ammunition for it? I'd hate to be the logistics guys supplying it.

Factory new Shumba (Image)
http://i.imgur.com/eeEm547.png

Now onto the combat ready version. Any changes I need to make before I continue?

If possible, the swing arms for the roadwheels should probably be a bit thicker. And you probably want to color the outermost part of the roadwheels dark grey since they'd almost certainly be rubber-coated.

[Questers]

-- Gunner by driver seating in the front ; Is it possible/how much width might i need?
-- If possible, how easy/hard would it be to theoretically isolate the commander on the right side of the turret from the autoloader assembly using a sizable enough bulkhead to prevent a round cookoff while being loaded from killing the crew?Blowout panels obviously will be included.
-- Anyone know how AMX-30 reloaded its coaxial 20mm cannon? Beltfeed or no?

Other suggestions obv. welcome.

And the rifled gun stays, before anyone says anything

Hey, it's good. Not my style tho.

For the gunner by driver that's fine. If you look at the Leopard 2, if it didn't have the ammo store there, there's enough space for a second person. So sure, you could do it. Seems to me there's no benefit though. Also, it would be a bad place to put optics.

I don't think so, re the commander.

[Dostanuot Loj]

For notVickers Mk.3i

Heavy Applique Module - Sandwich

The Heavy Applique Module - Sandwich, is a composite add-on armor system for the notVickers Mk.3i in Sumerian service. It was developed starting in the mid 1980s to enhance the protection of the notVickers Mk.3i in service. The system is designed to be fitted by the crews with hand tools in the field without difficulty, and as such is broken into individual modules not heavier then 30kg. It provides enhanced protection over all aspects of the vehicle with a limited increase in weight.

The core of the HAM-Sandwich system are spaced plates consisting of 12mm thick rolled homogenous steel plates perforated with 7mm diameter holes. The perforated plates allow effective coverage of the area by sufficient strength, with reduced mass. The armored module is formed by two such plates sandwiching a synthetic rubber material which is encased in a synthetic ballistic fiber. The whole system is further encased in a resin-hardened fiberglass shell to which paint is applied. The modules are fitted to each section of the vehicle.

The attachment to the vehicle is entirely modular, with attachment using a stowage bar welded to the top edge of the turret and a securing bracket welded along the bottom of the turret. Hull mounted modules are attached in a similar way, making use of over-lapping of the attachment systems over the front of the hull. The side skirt modules are merely hung from their upper attachment bar. This system makes minimal use of bolts or welding additional elements, and as such makes the system highly modular and replaceable with minimal effort. In addition, a series of special brackets, all simple stamped steel, is available to adjust the mounting position, or mount additional modules in different ways.

The system has been improved, and expanded upon since its introduction in 1993, increasing protection and offering a wider array of vehicles for fitting. Although currently in service with over two dozen vehicles in Sumerian service, the main focus continues to be the notVickers Mk.3i. There is a series of heavier modules available for the frontal arc of the tank, offering enhanced protection and incorporating an encased ceramic filler and tungsten mesh sandwiched between two HAM-Sandwich modules. Needless to say these heavier modules require a crane for installation, however they offer protection comparable to more modern tanks. A mine protection plate has also been developed, which itself is merely a large single-piece module of the base plate, which is set at a standoff from the bottom of the hull and covers the drivers and fighting compartment only. There are also plates covering the upper portion of the turret to augment top attack protection.

The entire array, featuring the heaviest protection over the frontal arc and the mine plate, increases the vehicle mass by less then five tonnes, while offering dramatically increased protection. The use of lighter frontal plates and no mine plate brings this weight figure down dramatically while still allowing increased survivability.

[Questers]

if anyone is interested a good tank-net post about why Malaysia acquired PT-91M over Ukrainian T-84 (which Thailand later bought.)

[Questers]

Fuck it, all my tanks are going on spreadsheets. It's not a roleplaying game without spreadsheets.

[Lamoni]

if anyone is interested a good tank-net post about why Malaysia acquired PT-91M over Ukrainian T-84 (which Thailand later bought.)

Very nice post, Questers. Thanks for linking to it.

[Dostanuot Loj]

Olifant 1b style armour package for Vickers Mk.3, y/n?

[Zeinbrad]

Okay this one you guys can help me with.


Davious Armored Reconnaissance vehicle.
Country of Origin-Ironi.
Designed-1992-1993.
Produced-1994-Present.
Number built-800
Operators-Ironi Self-Defense force.
Crew: 4(Commander, gunner, loader and driver) with autoloader-3.
Main Armament-L/55 105mm rifled gun.
Secondary Armament-7.62mm machine gun.
Weight-30 tons.
Max speed-121 km/h
Power plant-JH-12 Diesel Engine
Combat history-The Leua civil war (1995-1999) about 60 Davious deployed as fire support vehicles and Tank destroyers.
The Jaua insurrection (1978-Present) about 30 Davious have been destroyed in this insurrection.Used as a fire support vehicle.

Note: This vehicle is designed as a Armored Recon vehicle, and Tank destroyer, the Tank Destroyer part mostly due to the hostile nations surrounding Ironi, who have more tanks then them. The Davious is meant to outrange it's opponent, and take them out from a safe distance. It is deployed in Armored regiments as a Recon vehicle and long range fire support.

[Vetok]

The Kanzer-3 also doesn't use rivets, because the Ragon aren't that incompetent at Tank design.

Speaking as someone who linearts 40k stuff for a hobby, I think you need to look very closely at the Leman Russ you're using. It is rivets galore. Though I must admit I'm tempted to try and draw a 40k tank with a slight basis in reality now.

Moar 40k stuff

So now the one APC the Guard use, you're using as an infantry support vehicle? Also, why the horrifically-awesome chimera conversion from Golden Daemon rather than the actual IG ADV, the Hydra? You're hurting me here now.

lineart bits

Bless you for this. I'm tempted to take my Rival and redraw it in a bigger scale with your tracks.

[Zeinbrad]

The Kanzer-3 also doesn't use rivets, because the Ragon aren't that incompetent at Tank design.

Speaking as someone who linearts 40k stuff for a hobby, I think you need to look very closely at the Leman Russ you're using. It is rivets galore. Though I must admit I'm tempted to try and draw a 40k tank with a slight basis in reality now.

Moar 40k stuff

So now the one APC the Guard use, you're using as an infantry support vehicle? Also, why the horrifically-awesome chimera conversion from Golden Daemon rather than the actual IG ADV, the Hydra? You're hurting me here now.

lineart bits

Bless you for this. I'm tempted to take my Rival and redraw it in a bigger scale with your tracks.

Honestly, I would remove the rivets, but I'm lazy.

It has a APC variant. The Kanzer-2A came into service before the yet to be named ADV for the Germnians (Came into service in 1939, when the Kanzer-2A was shown to be lacking)

[Questers]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... xNFE#gid=3 how does this format look on other peoples computers

[Spirit of Hope]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiOqtbkkbGIkdEZSZHpISlhjR1pkdWRuRG5qamcxNFE#gid=3 how does this format look on other peoples computers

Looks good to me.

[Registug]

I think I might have Cooksland design a post-war medium tank/universal tank for use in South-East Asia. Possibly a light tank, maybe.

Cooksland experience in WWII was rather brutal. Lot of fighting in the jungles of SE Asia, and then participation in the Invasion of Japan and brief involvement in the Chinese Civil War.

I was thinking of taking experience in the jungle and using it to make a low ground pressure light or medium tank based around infantry support. Itroduction around the late 50s, used in the later parts of Korea and up until the early/mid Vietnam War, and then gets phased out for Centurions in 1970-ish.

[Questers]

I think I might have Cooksland design a post-war medium tank/universal tank for use in South-East Asia. Possibly a light tank, maybe.

Cooksland experience in WWII was rather brutal. Lot of fighting in the jungles of SE Asia, and then participation in the Invasion of Japan and brief involvement in the Chinese Civil War.

I was thinking of taking experience in the jungle and using it to make a low ground pressure light or medium tank based around infantry support. Itroduction around the late 50s, used in the later parts of Korea and up until the early/mid Vietnam War, and then gets phased out for Centurions in 1970-ish.

The Nips used tanks pretty effectively in Malaya, but I'm not sure how good they were elsewhere.

[Oaledonia]

So I'm using the AMX 10RC, is there any other wheeled death trucks that anyone can recommend?

[Imperializt Russia]

This is strange - how is it that Leclerc glacis has less protection against KE than the lower front hull, yet vice versa against HEAT? In fact IIRC its probably insufficient against contemporary 120mm APFSDS.

Glacis is thin but thick in LOS, which is bad for APFSDS but probably okay for HEAT protection. Lower front hull is thick physically, but thinner LOS, which is better for APFSDS and probably worse for HEAT.

But like Kyiv said, they're guesstimates.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiOqtbkkbGIkdEZSZHpISlhjR1pkdWRuRG5qamcxNFE#gid=3 how does this format look on other peoples computers

IMO, great layout.

[Purpelia]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiOqtbkkbGIkdEZSZHpISlhjR1pkdWRuRG5qamcxNFE#gid=3 how does this format look on other peoples computers

One thing I would do is use the freeze rows/columns function to see if you can make the image stay in place as you scroll down the list of stats. I know how to do it in excel, but no idea how to do it in this thing. But it should be possible.

[Rich and Corporations]

Because it allows you to fire more types of ammunition like HESH and plain HE.

You can fire both of those, with accuracy, from a smoothbore. The only improvement you get from rifling is for HESH, which isn't better at penetrating than HEAT or APDS.

Concrete.

But like Kyiv said, they're guesstimates.

Nothing is certain.

[Anacasppia]

This is strange - how is it that Leclerc glacis has less protection against KE than the lower front hull, yet vice versa against HEAT? In fact IIRC its probably insufficient against contemporary 120mm APFSDS.

Glacis is thin but thick in LOS, which is bad for APFSDS but probably okay for HEAT protection. Lower front hull is thick physically, but thinner LOS, which is better for APFSDS and probably worse for HEAT.

But like Kyiv said, they're guesstimates.

In retrospect it kind of makes sense. The glacis is very heavily sloped compared to the lower front hull, and as I understand it sloping is in fact counter-productive against KEPs.

[Stahn]

So I'm using the AMX 10RC, is there any other wheeled death trucks that anyone can recommend?

The B1 Centauro seems pretty kewl to me.

[Imperializt Russia]

You can fire both of those, with accuracy, from a smoothbore. The only improvement you get from rifling is for HESH, which isn't better at penetrating than HEAT or APDS.

Concrete.

Straight-up HE will probably be better at dealing with fortifications.

HESH is sufficient for lightly-armoured vehicles and fortifications as a multi-purpose medium-power round, in the same vein as the M830A1.

[Questers]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiOqtbkkbGIkdEZSZHpISlhjR1pkdWRuRG5qamcxNFE#gid=3 how does this format look on other peoples computers

One thing I would do is use the freeze rows/columns function to see if you can make the image stay in place as you scroll down the list of stats. I know how to do it in excel, but no idea how to do it in this thing. But it should be possible.

Yeah, I tried it, but it won't allow images to go into the column. Bit annoyed at that.

[Questers]

Thanks for the comments on the format. Im still experimenting with this format but I prefer it to wiki already.