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by The Soodean Imperium » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:54 pm
Riysa wrote:Soodean, have you read Panzer Leader yet by chance?
by Riysa » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:56 pm
The Soodean Imperium wrote:Riysa wrote:Soodean, have you read Panzer Leader yet by chance?
No, as a matter of fact I haven't. I'm halfway through Lind's "Maneuver Warfare Handbook," but I got sidetracked on Suvorov's "Inside the Soviet Army." I'll definitely take a look at Panzer Leader once I get the time, though.
by Zeinbrad » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:01 pm
The Soodean Imperium wrote:Zeinbrad wrote:I based it's off the Panzer 4 slightly and Leman russ armament wise.
See, there's your problem. As it happens, I've done a fair amount of reading about maneuver warfare recently, and I agree completely that if used correctly it would allow a force of small, fast, light tanks to overwhelm a force of large, slow, heavy ones. But the Leman russ (and, again, pretty much everything out of WH40K) is large, slow, and heavy. In battle its high profile would make it easy to spot and hit, and at the operational level its high ground pressure would slow down your armored column in rough terrain. Even static AT guns would be able to pick off a monster like that.
At the very least, I recommend finding a unit artwork that's better suited to the maneuver warfare role. Ideally, I imagine such a design should be light, fast, and capable of moving on difficult terrain, with a low profile to make it harder to spot as it sweeps toward the surprised defenders, breaks through the line, and circles around to hit the other trenches from the rear.
by Zeinbrad » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:05 pm
Questers wrote:Jet's where just coming into use
by Istevia » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:07 pm
Zeinbrad wrote:The Soodean Imperium wrote:See, there's your problem. As it happens, I've done a fair amount of reading about maneuver warfare recently, and I agree completely that if used correctly it would allow a force of small, fast, light tanks to overwhelm a force of large, slow, heavy ones. But the Leman russ (and, again, pretty much everything out of WH40K) is large, slow, and heavy. In battle its high profile would make it easy to spot and hit, and at the operational level its high ground pressure would slow down your armored column in rough terrain. Even static AT guns would be able to pick off a monster like that.
At the very least, I recommend finding a unit artwork that's better suited to the maneuver warfare role. Ideally, I imagine such a design should be light, fast, and capable of moving on difficult terrain, with a low profile to make it harder to spot as it sweeps toward the surprised defenders, breaks through the line, and circles around to hit the other trenches from the rear.
I think you guys are assuming I'm going for an actual practical and good tank here. I'm not.
The Kanzer-3 is not going by modern or at least human standards of maneuver warfare, in fact, Germnains forces aren't that mobile, just more mobile then their opponents. Remember, trench warfare is common in Bellum.
The Kanzer-3 also doesn't use rivets, because the Ragon aren't that incompetent at Tank design.
by Chedastan » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:12 pm
by Questers » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:21 pm
that's gonna be a big bustle. the problem with those 157mm guns is ammunition and the internal pressure/size.Riysa wrote:Questers wrote:Well it depends on the protected volume etc. Tho not impossible if youre smart: Leclerc is only 57 tons tops.
Its protection is not that great, though. And with a 157mm youre going to need a big turret for recoil path length AND ammunition. Are you thinking about one part or two part?
I get these numbers from tanknet for Leclerc armour. someone pls verify
Leclerc Glacis 580-600 KE, 1040-1060 HEAT,
Hull side: 90 KE, 420 HEAT,
Turret Front 890-910 KE , 1220-1420 HEAT,
Lower front hull : 780 KE , 850 HEAT
One part, probably, and I'm aiming for a bit higher than those numbers although they are close. What series are they from?
EDIT: The turret front numbers are actually slightly higher than my numbers, although I redirected protection to the hull.
by Riysa » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:28 pm
Questers wrote:that's gonna be a big bustle. the problem with those 157mm guns is ammunition and the internal pressure/size.Riysa wrote:
One part, probably, and I'm aiming for a bit higher than those numbers although they are close. What series are they from?
EDIT: The turret front numbers are actually slightly higher than my numbers, although I redirected protection to the hull.
oone has to assume series 2.1.
Im going to copy the numbers wholesale for the SA-20RF and use T-80U numbers for the SA-21.
by The Akasha Colony » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:31 pm
Riysa wrote:Questers wrote: that's gonna be a big bustle. the problem with those 157mm guns is ammunition and the internal pressure/size.
oone has to assume series 2.1.
Im going to copy the numbers wholesale for the SA-20RF and use T-80U numbers for the SA-21.
Going to run with a 35-round rear turret bustle, and I've run some calculations to determine the recoiling length. It should be set, just need to work on my crappy style! Speaking of which, I'm just wondering, does it visually look okay at this stage its at?
by Anacasppia » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:00 pm
Anemos Major wrote:Forty-five men, thirty four tons, one crew cabin... anything could happen.
Mmm... it's getting hot in here.
by The Kievan People » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:10 pm
Anacasppia wrote:This is strange - how is it that Leclerc glacis has less protection against KE than the lower front hull, yet vice versa against HEAT? In fact IIRC its probably insufficient against contemporary 120mm APFSDS.
by Connori Pilgrims » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:11 pm
Riysa wrote:Going to run with a 35-round rear turret bustle, and I've run some calculations to determine the recoiling length. It should be set, just need to work on my crappy style! Speaking of which, I'm just wondering, does it visually look okay at this stage its at?
by Zeinbrad » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:55 pm
by Lydenburg » Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:12 pm
Questers wrote:I await eagerly someone who knows some more realistic protection figures for the Leclerc.
by Riysa » Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:14 pm
Questers wrote:I await eagerly someone who knows some more realistic protection figures for the Leclerc.
by New Frenco Empire » Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:28 pm
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