Why is America trading with a communistic country?

[Hatsunia]

So is the real question, "Why is America trading with a heavily authoritarian one-party state?"

Also, communism in theory =/= communism in practice.

[Slafstopia]

I would say they've been Communist in name only for quite some time now. Probably after Richard Nixon visited the place.

Not even in name...

Nothing makes me vomit more than when people say China or North Korea are commies. North Korea don't even call themselves communist.

[Genivaria]

Not even in name...

Nothing makes me vomit more than when people say China or North Korea are commies. North Korea don't even call themselves communist.

Communists don't really care for Monarchies.

[Genivaria]

So is the real question, "Why is America trading with a heavily authoritarian one-party state?"

Also, communism in theory =/= communism in practice.

Because trading is mutually beneficial. Why shouldn't we trade with them?

[Benuty]

Nothing makes me vomit more than when people say China or North Korea are commies. North Korea don't even call themselves communist.

Communists don't really care for Monarchies.

North Korea is more of a rapist fuckocracy than a monarchy.

[Slafstopia]

Nothing makes me vomit more than when people say China or North Korea are commies. North Korea don't even call themselves communist.

Communists don't really care for Monarchies.

They specifically removed every mention of communism from their constitution and stuff! Why can't people understand that Juche =/=/=/=/=/=/=/=/=/=/= communism?

[Rehansu Tir]

China is not communist. Hell, I'd say that it is more capitalist than the US. That is why China's economy is quickly on the way to surpassing the rest of the world. Because the Chinese are shrewd, calculating, and have the willpower to win. Where Americans are failing, they will excel.

Except for the fact that China's economy is going to start collapsing in some odd years, unless they change their social policies.

And which social policies would those be?

China has made remarkable social progress in the past 20 years, increased access to information and liberalization of the media; homosexuality has not only been legalized, but the government now funds programs to decrease homophobia and discrimination and even clubs and bars for the lgbt community; women and minorities have increased access and influence in the private/business sector, government and educational institutions. Is China a progressive civil rights paradise? Of course not. But the measure of success is not where a country stands now, but where it stands in relation to where it was at some point in the past. On that basis, China has made significant progress, the US on the other hand has become quite stagnant and even regressive.

[Ourisio]

After a long session of deep thought, I've decided to use Ourisio's post as copypasta. It's got the marine sniper feel to it.

Oh, boy. "Marine Sniper." How do you figure my (admittedly) explosive reply is a "marine sniper" response?

I flipped because I'm reading comments that give off this air of "Man, I don't give a shit about maintaining the balance of power in favor of another western nation with similar values, all that touchy-feely schtuff, so let's go give them asians who-work-for-100's-of-dollars-below-us all our money because that's the way economics is supposed to work." INSTEAD OF "You know what? Let's quit using the term 'socially-responsible' as a trademark and actually manipulate our purchases to favor practices we agree with instead of trying to influence a culturally-insular (and if you don't believe China isn't just putting on the charm to get business over there, I have a few dozen bridges to sell you) nation with no interest outside of building its' power via industry."

Not trying to troll at all here, so if there's holes in my logic, please tell me. I'm really not all that well versed in this realm. I kind of gave up on trying to figure out how to affect change six years ago. Seriously, help me out.

[Rehansu Tir]

Fuck.

Well, the point still stands.

Noone cares about quotes about communism unless they're from Marx or Engels.

or trotsky. What's wrong with trotsky? I like trotsky.

[Flenski]

China isn't communist. They're somewhere in-between state-socialist and state-capitalist.

Cutting off trade with China would destroy the American economy.

The chinese socialist-capitalists fled to Taiwan (Formosa) After the chinese civil war (Before WWII-WWII and AfterWWII to 1950's)
leaving China to the control of Communist China. US trades with China for economy and better goods and toys.

[Flenski]

So is the real question, "Why is America trading with a heavily authoritarian one-party state?"

Also, communism in theory =/= communism in practice.

Because trading is mutually beneficial. Why shouldn't we trade with them?

The chinese socialist-capitalists fled to Taiwan (Formosa) After the chinese civil war (Before WWII-WWII and AfterWWII to 1950's)
leaving China to the control of Communist China. US trades with China for economy and better goods and toys.

[Rehansu Tir]

I can't remember where I read it, but somewhere I read about the evolution of economies, and how America isn't supposed to be a "manufacturing" economy anymore.

It's supposed to be a "technology" and "smarts" economy.
Places like China take up the banner as "manufacturers".
But I'm probably wrong on this account.

The US is a service economy, as most of it's economy is based on the service industry in all it's myriad forms. Very little is manufactured anymore, instead it's just services and products offered and sold.

[Arumdaum]

Oh noes. I change my mind.

You will be assimilated, muahahaha!
Sadly North Korea doesn't have much to offer.

Actually, North Korea possesses the second largest magnesite resources in the world and possesses rare metals valued at over $6 trillion. North Korea's coal and limestone reserves are worth some $9.7 trillion.

North Korea has reserves of more than 200 mineral types distributed over 80% of its territory with ten reserves recording large deposits of magnetite, tungsten ore, graphite, gold ore, and molybdenum. Among the largest resources with more than 2 million tons of estimated reserve are: Zinc which tops the list with 21.1 million tons of estimated resource; followed by non-metallic resource of 21 million tons of limestone and magnesite 6 million tons; and other mineral sources such as iron 5 million tons, anthracite 4.5 million tons, copper 2.9 million tons, barite 2.1 million tons, gold and graphite also 2 million tons each.[1]

An opening up of North Korea would also mean a sudden abundance of cheap but educated (North Korea's literacy rate is 99%) labor, less reliance on China by South Korea but particularly Japan. It would also mean the possibility of a railway connecting first South Korea by rail to Russia and China, making the export and import of goods to and from places such as Europe by rail possible, and then connect Japan if the Japan-Korea Undersea Tunnel is ever created.

North Korea also possesses numerous warm-water ports, large numbers of historical sites, Korea's most sacred mountain, and excellent beaches along the Sea of Japan.

[Arumdaum]

China is a dictatorship. They don't have free elections and joining labor unions is only allowed if they are state sanctioned.

Theoratically, a communist nation doesn't have to be totalitarian. But China clearly is.

It was Nixon by the way, that managed to open China's borders in order to trade with them. And if China is not communist now (hard to say as there is no generally accepted definition of communist) it absolutely was at the time of Nixon.

Is it a dictatorship? I'm pretty sure Xi Jinping isn't that powerful, and he definitely does not hold anywhere near the amount of power Mao possessed.

But no, there is a definition of communism, and China at the time of Nixon definitely was not communist.

[Rehansu Tir]

Nothing makes me vomit more than when people say China or North Korea are commies. North Korea don't even call themselves communist.

Communists don't really care for Monarchies.

neither do republics, yet the US has the Bushs, the clintons, the gores, the kennedys, etc, etc. Not to mention that americans are more obsessed with the british royal family than any of their subjects are. Americans have a serious inferiority complex when it comes to monarchy.

[Genivaria]

Communists don't really care for Monarchies.

neither do republics, yet the US has the Bushs, the clintons, the gores, the kennedys, etc, etc. Not to mention that americans are more obsessed with the british royal family than any of their subjects are. Americans have a serious inferiority complex when it comes to monarchy.

1. None of the listed names constitute a monarchy so I fail to see your point.
2. Blame Disney movies glorifying Princesses.

[Arumdaum]

First of all, China is communist in name only.

Second of all, and more important, why is a "communist" country trading with America?

Nope, not in name either.

[Fedeledland]

China along with several other countries are Communistic.

Nope.

The major (if only) country we trade often with is China.

The major country my country trades with is Venezuela; it was for the US the UK for most of its history, etc.

My question is, why are we trading with them?

Because 1) This isn't 1962 and 2) Money is good

After WWII we, along with the other allied nations, try to stop communism and help form more Capitalistic countries. Do you agree that we should technically be trading with them, or do you support it, or is it unrealiliatic to stop? Questions, comments, concerns and prayers all welcome here

See above. The cold war is over. I'd be more worried about the trade the US does with Saudi Arabia than that of China

My vote is "no but in certain cases yes"

How do you propose to end trade, to get the money there, to isolate yourself from global networks?

[Rehansu Tir]

China isn't communist. They're somewhere in-between state-socialist and state-capitalist.

Cutting off trade with China would destroy the American economy.

The chinese socialist-capitalists fled to Taiwan (Formosa) After the chinese civil war (Before WWII-WWII and AfterWWII to 1950's)
leaving China to the control of Communist China. US trades with China for economy and better goods and toys.

the chinese who fled to taiwan weren't socialist-capitalists, as you state, they were facists. The Kuomintang where a one-party totalitarian apparatus, occupying taiwan and oppressing the native taiwanese for decades, not holding elections for decades (not until the 1980s and the first democratically elected president selected in 1992), limiting freedom of speech and the press, and kept the country and population prisoner under martial law until 1991, etc.

But to the US, they were the good guys.

[Rehansu Tir]

neither do republics, yet the US has the Bushs, the clintons, the gores, the kennedys, etc, etc. Not to mention that americans are more obsessed with the british royal family than any of their subjects are. Americans have a serious inferiority complex when it comes to monarchy.

1. None of the listed names constitute a monarchy so I fail to see your point.
2. Blame Disney movies glorifying Princesses.

neither does the Kim family, but go on...

[Keronians]

1. Right, so you're one of those people who factor land as a part of capital? Well, I personally disagree with that, but I guess it can work. In any event, you don't think human capital exists? THAT really is economics 101. As for the rest of your paragraph, I'm going to have to ask you to insert proper punctuation and grammar because I can't understand anything as is.

2. The LTV does not factor in profit in the traditional sense. From what I have understood, it (incorrectly) mistakens profit for value added. The surplus labour time you mentioned is added value here.

1. You don't really get how economics work do you? Natural resources become capital when they are invested in and aren't relevant to value calculations otherwise. And your source even acknowledges that human capital (using a terrible definition of capital one might add) is a useless term for various other phenomenon.

2. Stop embrassing yourself. New value is only produced by human labour, profit is value produced by human labour beyond the cost of the human labour.

1. They become capital after being processed, yes. Prior to that, they are not capital, and I thought you were saying that they were regardless. Unprocessed land still holds economic value. Did you read the page? It doesn't refer much to physical capital.

2. New value is produced through a variety of factors, one of which is human labour. Profit does not relate to "value" at all. Profit relates to the premium added to the cost of a product at the market.

In any event, since you seem to be more knowledgeable on economics, how about you explain, just as an addendum to our present debate, the system you propose.

[Genivaria]

1. None of the listed names constitute a monarchy so I fail to see your point.
2. Blame Disney movies glorifying Princesses.

neither does the Kim family, but go on...

What about the Kim family?

[Souriya Al-Assad]

Because trading is mutually beneficial. Why shouldn't we trade with them?

The chinese socialist-capitalists fled to Taiwan (Formosa) After the chinese civil war (Before WWII-WWII and AfterWWII to 1950's)
leaving China to the control of Communist China. US trades with China for economy and better goods and toys.

Socialist-Capitalists? This is a farce right?

The Kuomintang was a regime of roving neo-liberal, neo-conservative fascistic capitalists with the worst record for corruption ever in Chinese history. You should furthermore care to see what Chiang Kai Shek organised in the "encirclement campaigns", the 1927 massacres, the White Terrors, in addition to the ethnic cleansing attempts on Taiwan. Tens of millions of Chinese died in these. In addition to the fact of which Chiang Kai Shek's NATO backed regime hoarded as well as leeched China's assets ruthlessly on a massive scale. Thank goodness Mao defeated them.

[Saiwania]

US trades with China for economy and better goods and toys.

Better goods and toys? More like, cheaper and lower quality goods at the expense of American manufacturing. China is benefiting far more than the US is from the trade relationship.

[Sibirsky]

Yes, we should.

And by doing so we could maybe get them to accept some capitalist reforms, resulting in increased quality of life for the country's people.

Sanctions can still be a very useful tool though.

I disagree with sanctions.